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247Sports new Composite rankings

  • Noah said...

    Sparty, I expect JC (who is on a plane right now) or Lucky to write up something about these two questions (great ones by the way). I don't want to mess up the answers because they can easily be messed up.

    Edit: Just saw Kite's post above. This guy get the 247Composite :) Still going to let JC clarify anything later when the piece comes out.

    At the very least I can BS people enough to believe me...

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac ●

  • Mr. Perfect said...

    Kickers be killin' us.

    True

    signature image signature image signature image

    I Believe Auburn and Love IT...4 Life! You should prepare yourself to live with the consequences of your decisions, whatever they may be.

    AuburnInOrlando ●

  • kitemac said...

    You can always still just look at 247Sports recruit rankings. Composite recruit rankings and team rankings use the other sites.

    Please explain. I only see one way for the team rankings.

    http://247sports.com/Team/Ranking/2013/Football

    wrightman1

  • wrightman1 said...

    Please explain. I only see one way for the team rankings.

    http://247sports.com/Team/Ranking/2013/Football

    He's saying you can use just 247Sports for player rankings.

    Follow me at: http://twitter.com/NoahStanley247

    Noah

  • kitemac said...

    I can answer your second question cause I did the same. Composite also takes an average of amount of 5 stars, 4 stars, 3 stars, etc. They use that amount to set the amount of each rank. They are still using the Guassian formula but basically converting all the other sites ranks to 247Sports ranks then plugging it in to the same original formula.

    At least I think... Someone can correct me if wrong.

    I get that at a macro level, I guess I'd like to understand the mechanics of it. I guess I'm just wondering what tips a guy into 4-star status or 3-star status, like MSU's Jones, who's rated a 3-star on 2 sites and a 4-star on 2. Given the 4 levels of red bar, that makes me assume that there are 4 sites being used for the rankings.

    So I guess I understand "what" the composite rankings are, but I don't know how they're arrived at or how they stack up #s. For instance, 247 rates players 98-100 as 5-stars, 90-97 as 4-stars, etc. ESPN uses something funky where guys with an "80" rating are 4-stars . . . and 80 rating on 247 = a 3-star, but ESPN weighs things differently, I think there are 8 guys in the country with ratings at 90 on ESPN.

    Rivals does their funky 6.1- 5-star, 5.8-6.0 - 4-star, etc. thing. Scout does not provide ratings that detailed, it's just 5-star, 4-star, etc.

    So what is taken into account? The "raw" star rating, in which an 97 4-star on 247 counts the same as a 5.8 4-star on Rivals, so you just take "(4+4)/2 = 4" . . . . or do they look at WHERE the guy rates within that particular site's system . . . i.e., a guy who's a 97 4-star on 247 counts more than the rating of 5.8 "low" 4-star on rivals. (Maybe (4.5 +4.00)/2 = 4.25? )

    I guess I look at it like this: I get that all ratings are given equal rate. I guess that question is what ratings are used and how are they converted into a measure that allows for them to be given equal weight across the board? Do you just look at stars, so a guy with 2 4-star ratings and 2 3-star ratings averages out to "3.5" stars, no matter if he was the highest 4-star on 1 site and the lowest 3-star on another? Do you convert every other sites data into 247#s, wherein the #1 guy get the same rating as the #1 player on 247, all the way on down?

    Sorry, lots of questions, but I'm a big numbers guy and I'd like to be able to explain to my home board how these all work out.

    This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 7/30/2012 at 9:01 AM

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • wrightman1 said...

    Please explain. I only see one way for the team rankings.

    http://247sports.com/Team/Ranking/2013/Football

    Team rankings is only done in the composite recruit rankings. Meaning 25% of 247Sports recruit rankings are being used. At this point you won't be able to get your team rankings with only using 247Sports recruit rankings. There still is the 247Sports recruit rankings which obviously are going to differ from the other sites.

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac ●

  • kitemac said...

    Team rankings is only done in the composite recruit rankings. Meaning 25% of 247Sports recruit rankings are being used. At this point you won't be able to get your team rankings with only using 247Sports recruit rankings. There still is the 247Sports recruit rankings which obviously are going to differ from the other sites.

    I know this you said i can use Just 247. By this we won't ever know what 247ranks us. EVER. Just a combination of all sites? Im a member of 247 not all the others. I like it if you could click off of it

    Recruit rankings.... I see what you said. But i was not talking about that.
    THis ruined what staff said 247 was gonna do and i have been looking foward to it for a while. (6 months or more)
    Where you can add a recruit to your teams commit list and see where your class would rank..

    How is that gonna work out now?

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by wrightman1 on 7/30/2012 at 9:08 AM

    wrightman1

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I get that at a macro level, I guess I'd like to understand the mechanics of it. I guess I'm just wondering what tips a guy into 4-star status or 3-star status, like MSU's Jones, who's rated a 3-star on 2 sites and a 4-star on 2. Given the 4 levels of red bar, that makes me assume that there are 4 sites being used for the rankings.

    So I guess I understand "what" the composite rankings are, but I don't know how they're arrived at or how they stack up #s. For instance, 247 rates players 98-100 as 5-stars, 90-97 as 4-stars, etc. ESPN uses something funky where guys with an "80" rating are 4-stars . . . and 80 rating on 247 = a 3-star, but ESPN weighs things differently, I think there are 8 guys in the country with ratings at 90 on ESPN.

    Rivals does their funky 6.1- 5-star, 5.8-6.0 - 4-star, etc. thing. Scout does not provide ratings that detailed, it's just 5-star, 4-star, etc.

    So what is taken into account? The "raw" star rating, in which an 97 4-star on 247 counts the same as a 90 4-star on 247 . . . . or do they look at WHERE the guy rates within that particular site's system . . . i.e., a guy who's a 97 4-star on 247 counts more than the rating of 5.8 "low" 4-star on rivals.

    I guess I look at it like this: I get that all ratings are given equal rate. I guess that question is what ratings are used and how are they converted into a measure that allows for them to be given equal weight across the board? Do you just look at stars, so a guy with 2 4-star ratings and 2 3-star ratings averages out to "3.5" stars, no matter if he was the highest 4-star on 1 site and the lowest 3-star on another? Do you convert every other sites data into 247#s, wherein the #1 guy get the same rating as the #1 player on 247, all the way on down?

    Sorry, lots of questions, but I'm a big numbers guy and I'd like to be able to explain to my home board how these all work out.

    I'm a numbers guy too. Obviously this is just going with what I've read but all of this could be way wrong. JC or someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

    From my understanding. First they take an average (which from my understand may change to add more or less ranks) 5 stars, 4 stars etc on all the sites. So say the sites have 20, 30, 40, and 10 5 stars. They will then average that to get 25 and that will be the amount of five stars in the composite rankings. Same thing is for the rest. Once that is done you are set for the amount of players in each rank.

    Now they take all individual recruits and basically use a linear equation from the individual rankings of each player. So a 1.0 is the best player next is lower so forth and so on... I'm not quite sure which equation they are using to make it linear for these rankings multiple ways of doing it. Once you have done that (so really the 94 rating or 97 rating doesn't mean much more means where you are ranked in the top 500 or whatever) you have your top rankings. So you know how many 5 stars, 4 stars, etc there has to be and now you know how the players are put in numbers wise. I'm not sure where the cutoffs in the 0.xxx numbers are for each rank anymore. I think you could have a curve to make it fit the original ranking that 247Sports has to make it easier to understand though (just add the error curve to make it so the rankings are 80 through 89, 90 through 97, etc) but I think adding that "error" formula is easier said then done. .

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac ●

  • wrightman1 said...

    I know this you said i can use Just 247. By this we won't ever know what 247ranks us. EVER. Just a combination of all sites? Im a member of 247 not all the others. I like it if you could click off of it

    Recruit rankings.... I see what you said. But i was not talking about that. THis ruined what staff said 247 was gonna do and i have been looking foward to it for a while. (6 months or more) Where you can add a recruit to your teams commit list and see where your class would rank..

    How is that gonna work out now?

    This didn't ruin what the staff will do if that is what they are going to add (I have no clue what they are planning on). If they wanted to they could spit out the numbers for 247Sports (only) team rankings. I think other factors came in when adding this. There are multiple multiple ways you can go with this. What they did today was the biggest step though. Pulling on the information together and spitting something out. This is just a building block on what they can do. It is a very big building block though.

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac ●

  • kitemac said...

    I'm a numbers guy too. Obviously this is just going with what I've read but all of this could be way wrong. JC or someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

    From my understanding. First they take an average (which from my understand may change to add more or less ranks) 5 stars, 4 stars etc on all the sites. So say the sites have 20, 30, 40, and 10 5 stars. They will then average that to get 25 and that will be the amount of five stars in the composite rankings. Same thing is for the rest. Once that is done you are set for the amount of players in each rank.

    Now they take all individual recruits and basically use a linear equation from the individual rankings of each player. So a 1.0 is the best player next is lower so forth and so on... I'm not quite sure which equation they are using to make it linear for these rankings multiple ways of doing it. Once you have done that (so really the 94 rating or 97 rating doesn't mean much more means where you are ranked in the top 500 or whatever) you have your top rankings. So you know how many 5 stars, 4 stars, etc there has to be and now you know how the players are put in numbers wise. I'm not sure where the cutoffs in the 0.xxx numbers are for each rank anymore. I think you could have a curve to make it fit the original ranking that 247Sports has to make it easier to understand though (just add the error curve to make it so the rankings are 80 through 89, 90 through 97, etc) but I think adding that "error" formula is easier said then done. .

    Does this make sense to anyone else or just me? It sounded good in my head at least.

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac ●

  • kitemac said...

    I'm a numbers guy too. Obviously this is just going with what I've read but all of this could be way wrong. JC or someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

    From my understanding. First they take an average (which from my understand may change to add more or less ranks) 5 stars, 4 stars etc on all the sites. So say the sites have 20, 30, 40, and 10 5 stars. They will then average that to get 25 and that will be the amount of five stars in the composite rankings. Same thing is for the rest. Once that is done you are set for the amount of players in each rank.

    Now they take all individual recruits and basically use a linear equation from the individual rankings of each player. So a 1.0 is the best player next is lower so forth and so on... I'm not quite sure which equation they are using to make it linear for these rankings multiple ways of doing it. Once you have done that (so really the 94 rating or 97 rating doesn't mean much more means where you are ranked in the top 500 or whatever) you have your top rankings. So you know how many 5 stars, 4 stars, etc there has to be and now you know how the players are put in numbers wise. I'm not sure where the cutoffs in the 0.xxx numbers are for each rank anymore. I think you could have a curve to make it fit the original ranking that 247Sports has to make it easier to understand though (just add the error curve to make it so the rankings are 80 through 89, 90 through 97, etc) but I think adding that "error" formula is easier said then done. .

    I think I forgot something....

    Obviously now you have all your recruit rankings. If you are a math guy I will just let you look at this and know it. I don't really want to explain that math though if I don't have to.

    attachment
    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac ●

  • wrightman1 said...

    THis ruined what staff said 247 was gonna do and i have been looking foward to it for a while. (6 months or more) Where you can add a recruit to your teams commit list and see where your class would rank..

    How is that gonna work out now?

    We'll have any recruit in the system with a composite. Unless it's someone we really don't know, then even then it wouldn't have been much use with him unranked with us.

    Follow me at: http://twitter.com/NoahStanley247

    Noah

  • On the mobile site, when clicking on a team's commit list, players are broken up into different categories (Top Target, High Choice, etc.) Also, on the mobile site, players on the commit list seem to be ranked by their composite rating but the only rating shown is the 247Sports rating. I don't know if these are intentional or bugs.

    This post was edited by Rivver on 7/30/2012 at 10:00 AM

    Rivver

  • Recruits taking note:
    @AdamBreneman87: I'm digging these new @247Sports Composite rankings.

    (Doesn't hurt that he got bumped to a 5* with the new rankings)

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • Noah said...

    We'll have any recruit in the system with a composite. Unless it's someone we really don't know, then even then it wouldn't have been much use with him unranked with us.

    On the team pages, the numerical 247 rating for each commit isn't shown. Will this be fixed?

    2013 Michigan Football Commits

    The 247Sports rankings are determined by our recruiting analysts after countless hours of personal observations, film evaluation and input from our network of scouts. Players are ranked by position, grouped qualitatively with a star ranking and given a numerical ranking based on their future potential.

    michigan.247sports.com

    buttesnake ●

  • Rivver said...

    On the mobile site, when clicking on a team's commit list, players are broken up into different categories (Top Target, High Choice, etc.) Also, on the mobile site, players on the commit list seem to be ranked by their composite rating but the only rating shown is the 247Sports rating. I don't know if these are intentional or bugs.

    Mobile's had some weird stuff going on for awhile. I think it just keeps getting left behind when they update the full site. They need to do a major mobile update soon.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 7/30/2012 at 10:54 AM

    MrWoodson ●

  • buttesnake said...

    On the team pages, the numerical 247 rating for each commit isn't shown. Will this be fixed?

    Also, on the mobile site: (a) if you look at UM's list of commits, under "High Choice (9)" it lists 12 commits, and (b) if you open up Jake Butt's profile, he's listed as a SDE for the 247 rankings but a TE for the 247 Composite rankings.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 7/30/2012 at 11:02 AM

    MrWoodson ●

  • Noah said...

    We will need to update rankings/ratings from other services as they change. Easy to do within the Top 100, but we will be doing it for all recruits.

    If you see a recruit with one bar and you know others have ranked/rated him, let us know and we'll get it updated.

    Noah: Who do we PM with the other rankings updates? I know multiple MSU recruits with 1 or 2 bars who have been rated on at least 3 sites; I'm glad to pass on the links to their respective profiles on other sites, so where do I send the PM?

    Thanks man, this is a huge project, no doubt.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • When we pull up the team rankings it is composite first correct? IMO, it should be the other way around. If you want to see composite then you should have that option to pull it up.

    Jeff4SC ●

  • I dislike it being the only option. I feel like it cheapens the work put in by 247 by allowing other sites info to be included in the 247 team rankings. JMO

    JB23BAMA

  • As a Bama fan who isnt obsessed with having the #1 class on a particular site, this is badass.

    Twitter: @ProducerAP

    Theta

  • I'm going to throw in my 2 cents, not that it matters but why would I want to have rankings that include services which are HORRIBLE? The whole reason I use Rivals and 247 is because I trust THEIR evaluations. By doing this you somewhat discredit 247 if you use these as your own "team rankings"

    If you are still going to have 247's own Team Rankings than this is a mute point of course but when I pull up Team Rankings I see this composite.

    tigerinatx

  • That's something we need to fix. Should be hard commit, soft commit and composite

    Follow me at: http://twitter.com/NoahStanley247

    Noah

  • MrWoodson said...

    Also, on the mobile site: (a) if you look at UM's list of commits, under "High Choice (9)" it lists 12 commits, and (b) if you open up Jake Butt's profile, he's listed as a SDE for the 247 rankings but a TE for the 247 Composite rankings.

    Thanks. A lot of stuff going on there. I'll need to see why it's doing that.

    Follow me at: http://twitter.com/NoahStanley247

    Noah

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Noah: Who do we PM with the other rankings updates? I know multiple MSU recruits with 1 or 2 bars who have been rated on at least 3 sites; I'm glad to pass on the links to their respective profiles on other sites, so where do I send the PM?

    Thanks man, this is a huge project, no doubt.

    Chad C would be the best. He manages the team that does all the timeline and rankings updates. Thanks for helping out!

    Follow me at: http://twitter.com/NoahStanley247

    Noah

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