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Arete said...
WVU's defense was decent, not great last year. WVU's defense kind of shut down Clemson's offense after the 1st quarter after the initial scoring fest. Clemson scored 2 late touchdowns in 4th quarter against 3rd string defense when the score was 63-19 or 70-19 ( I forget lol)>
The year before WVU had a top 5-10 defense in America. Remember, we almost beat LSU at LSU stiffling their offense.
WVU's defense has always been decent minuses a couple years. We just happen to have become a super flight offense during pat white years and last year under Holgorsen.
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FSUgoNoles24 ●
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Arete said...
I would be retreating and putting up the white flag if I were you too in this debate.
Fact: All of our WR's were studs in HS, highly sought after, and are producing big numbers on the field. Geno Smith was an elite QB in HS, highly sought after, and putting up amazing numbers in HS.
Maybe you should change to our system or upgrade to a better coach since it's NOT working out for you.
No one likes haters. Sounds like FSU has become a bunch of HATERS.
In spite of not being in many BCS bowl games recently, it's still kind of beneath a once proud program to be hating and their fan base to be this ignorant hating on other programs.
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MJRuffalo said...
of course not.
It is pretty clear that overall the PAC-12 is better than the ACC, total and defensively. ACC has some very talented individuals who often go on to due great things in the NFL, but for whatever reason as teams they underperform their individual talent. Maybe it is the coaching, maybe something else IDK.
I mean how else do you explain the ACC's absolutely abysmal bcs bowl record, especially when you take into account that they get some pretty favorable matchups. It is not like they often play the champion of the SEC, PAC-12, Big-10, or Big-12. It is usually the Big easy champ, or a runner-up from one of the 4 major conferences.
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MJRuffalo said...
of course not.
It is pretty clear that overall the PAC-12 is better than the ACC, total and defensively. ACC has some very talented individuals who often go on to due great things in the NFL, but for whatever reason as teams they underperform their individual talent. Maybe it is the coaching, maybe something else IDK.
Or maybe its the fact that more ACC defenses finish in the top 50 nationally than the Pac-12
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MJRuffalo said...
I do not believe that is an accurate comparison, seeing as the offenses face are so different. Though on that same note, my earlier statement of saying PAC-12 defenses are better was pure opinion. I did not back it up with any objective data.
Only way to really compare is too break down performances vs common opponents, but even then the data sets are probably too small to make a definitive statement. One big broken play could be the difference. That being said let's look at how Florida St, USC, and Stanford fared vs a common opponent, ND.
FSU held Notre Dame to 14 points and 280 yards.
Stanford held ND to 14 points and 309 yards
USC held ND to 17 points and 267 yards
All are fairly comparable, now lets look to see how that compared to their entire body of work
FSU was 6th in the nation in total defense giving up 274.6 YPG and 15.2 points pg which is damn near even as to how they held Notre Dame.
Stanford was 26th in the nation giving up 331.4 ypg and 20.3 ppg. AS we can see Stanford's Defense did statistically better vs Notre Dame than they did in total.
USC was 56th in the nation giving up 374.8 ypg and 26.3 ppg, much better vs Notre Dame than their season avg. Though in this case due to the youth on the USC defense we have to consider that USC's defense was much better later in the season than earlier.
The above is only a small segment of data but it is certainly some proof that shows that PAC-12 national defensive rankings were hurt by playing PAC-12 offenses much more so than vice-versa.
Offensively USC put up 443 on Notre Dame compared to 456.8 yard season average 14 yard difference
Stanford put up 429 yards on Notre Dame compared to 480.9 season average, 52 yard difference
Florida St put up 290 yards vs Notre Dame compared to their 375 average, 85 yard difference.
So this shows that Notre Dame's defense was better than the average opponent for all 3 teams, but the difference was far greater for Florida St.
This is evidence to suggest that ACC defensive rankings were boosted by playing ACC offenses much more so than the vice versa.
Again though this is based on limited data, but the evidence in this example at least shows that PAC-12 defenses were hurt more so by playing PAC-12 offenses, and ACC defenses were boosted more so by playing ACC offenses.
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FSUgoNoles24 said...
Again how can you take that and say over all they are better... you can't pick and choose things that favor your argument... if the stats are misleading then how is this not, this is like the whole well Clemson was your champs and they gave up 79 so that means all ACC teams would do the same... you can't speculate what would or could have happened... and comparing games is worse... are you to say if USX were to to play FSU that USC would not have any problems scoring and FSU wouldn't score.... hmmmmm fact is no one would know cause it didn't happen....
I will stick to the national stats. Cause if I can't then those offensive stats and rankings for the PAC 12 are just as questionable
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FSUgoNoles24 said...
Again how can you take that and say over all they are better... you can't pick and choose things that favor your argument... if the stats are misleading then how is this not, this is like the whole well Clemson was your champs and they gave up 79 so that means all ACC teams would do the same... you can't speculate what would or could have happened... and comparing games is worse... are you to say if USX were to to play FSU that USC would not have any problems scoring and FSU wouldn't score.... hmmmmm fact is no one would know cause it didn't happen....
I will stick to the national stats. Cause if I can't then those offensive stats and rankings for the PAC 12 are just as questionable
This post was edited by MJRuffalo on 4/23/2012 at 11:21 PM
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MJRuffalo said...
I do not believe that is an accurate comparison, seeing as the offenses face are so different. Though on that same note, my earlier statement of saying PAC-12 defenses are better was pure opinion. I did not back it up with any objective data.
Only way to really compare is too break down performances vs common opponents, but even then the data sets are probably too small to make a definitive statement. One big broken play could be the difference. That being said let's look at how Florida St, USC, and Stanford fared vs a common opponent, ND.
FSU held Notre Dame to 14 points and 280 yards.
Stanford held ND to 14 points and 309 yards
USC held ND to 17 points and 267 yards
All are fairly comparable, now lets look to see how that compared to their entire body of work
FSU was 6th in the nation in total defense giving up 274.6 YPG and 15.2 points pg which is damn near even as to how they held Notre Dame.
Stanford was 26th in the nation giving up 331.4 ypg and 20.3 ppg. AS we can see Stanford's Defense did statistically better vs Notre Dame than they did in total.
USC was 56th in the nation giving up 374.8 ypg and 26.3 ppg, much better vs Notre Dame than their season avg. Though in this case due to the youth on the USC defense we have to consider that USC's defense was much better later in the season than earlier.
The above is only a small segment of data but it is certainly some proof that shows that PAC-12 national defensive rankings were hurt by playing PAC-12 offenses much more so than vice-versa.
Offensively USC put up 443 on Notre Dame compared to 456.8 yard season average 14 yard difference
Stanford put up 429 yards on Notre Dame compared to 480.9 season average, 52 yard difference
Florida St put up 290 yards vs Notre Dame compared to their 375 average, 85 yard difference.
So this shows that Notre Dame's defense was better than the average opponent for all 3 teams, but the difference was far greater for Florida St.
This is evidence to suggest that ACC defensive rankings were boosted by playing ACC offenses much more so than the vice versa.
Again though this is based on limited data, but the evidence in this example at least shows that PAC-12 defenses were hurt more so by playing PAC-12 offenses, and ACC defenses were boosted more so by playing ACC offenses.
This post was edited by NoVaNoles on 4/23/2012 at 11:25 PM
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CRgator1 said...
If you can use FSU vs ND, then a sample size of the Pac 12's bowl gms are:
Washington- surrendered 777 yds total offense
Stanford- surr. 399 passing yds to Weeden. Blackmon 8/186, 3 tds
Oregon- Wisconsin gained 508 yds and 38 pts, in a losing effort.
These werent Pac 12 offenses.
This post was edited by MJRuffalo on 4/23/2012 at 11:27 PM
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NoVaNoles said...
Eh whatever, I said it was close
Fact is we recruit the south more than you and it gives us better defenses imo
This is what makes this fun though cause its debates like this that can never be proven.... but I watch a lot of college football and ACC defense is better to me.... its faster and harder hitting and in a many cases outside of USCw coached much better ( but this clearly varies year to year )
Maybe it is cause Pac-12 offenses are so good and cause ACC defenses are so weak
But did you ever think the good defense makes offenses look worse than they are and in your case the ( imo ) weak defenses making Pac-12 offense look better ?
Ill tell you one thing, for as good as USCw has looked on offense over the years.... most of you players amount to shit in the NFL, namely the pretty boy QB's, RB's, TE's and WR's
Your OL seems to do fine at least
Bottom line is my opinion is ACC defenses are tougher and is probably the 2nd best defensive conference to the SEC with the Big 10 right there with us..... I just prefer our speed over them and Im biased a bit cause duh, my team is southern and a member of he ACC.... so GFY
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MJRuffalo said...
right, but you have to compare them to something. Those were all prolific offenses who did that to a bunch of people. (not 777 yards, that was just pathetic and got UW's defensive staff fired)
I was not just comparing FSU to Notre Dame, I was comparing them to how USC and Stanford fared against them, then compared all of that to how each of those teams performed nationally.
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CRgator1 said...
Yeah, I know, I went back and re-read your post.
Yours made more sense, but its hard to debate week to week gms, and bowl gms (FSU vs ND). Thats what I was pointing out.
USCw isnt really in the "no defense" debate, maybe not even Oregon, or Stanford. Those teams are good anywhere. I actually think Aliotti(sp?) is a good def. coord., and Kiffin is one of the best.
This post was edited by MJRuffalo on 4/23/2012 at 11:52 PM
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NoVaNoles said...
Eh whatever, I said it was close
Fact is we recruit the south more than you and it gives us better defenses imo
This is what makes this fun though cause its debates like this that can never be proven.... but I watch a lot of college football and ACC defense is better to me.... its faster and harder hitting and in a many cases outside of USCw coached much better ( but this clearly varies year to year )
Maybe it is cause Pac-12 offenses are so good and cause ACC defenses are so weak
But did you ever think the good defense makes offenses look worse than they are and in your case the ( imo ) weak defenses making Pac-12 offense look better ?
Ill tell you one thing, for as good as USCw has looked on offense over the years.... most of you players amount to shit in the NFL, namely the pretty boy QB's, RB's, TE's and WR's
Your OL seems to do fine at least
Bottom line is my opinion is ACC defenses are tougher and is probably the 2nd best defensive conference to the SEC with the Big 10 right there with us..... I just prefer our speed over them and Im biased a bit cause duh, my team is southern and a member of he ACC.... so GFY
This post was edited by Alonzo Harris on 4/23/2012 at 11:59 PM
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3 Best WR corp in America- USC, WVU, and ????