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Apparently there is no debt crisis

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    As I said you clearly lack the peripheral focus to understand the situation.

    I recommend you read Micheal Lewis' Boomerang. It might help or maybe you can write a book report on it in your 300 level international financial markets class.

    Thanks again though I get off work at 6:30 I will be ready then if you have any further questions.

    Don't be a douche.

    This kind of arrogance is exactly why Republicans can't win a national or high profile election.

    This post was edited by joetheogre on 3/13/2013 at 5:46 PM

    signature image signature image signature image

    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    Yeah and do you know the drivers for that?

    That aside debt isn't free it carries interest and Uncle Sam isn't going to be getting IO assurances anytime soon...as in ever.

    They said the same thing in the 80s about the exploding debt.

    Keith Niebuhr

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    This was buried in the news feed today but thought it was worth giving a little bit of life.

    Thoughts anyone?

    debt crisis and a structural deficit that can be fixed with long term changes are two different things.

    Compare the interest rates on Government bonds in the US with Greece, Spain, or Japan in the early 90s for a comparison.

    If we were in a "debt crisis" the interest rates on government bonds wouldn't be among the lowest in US history.

    The actions of the Fed and the current global recession are helping to hold down those rates, but that doesn't change the fact that US debt is the safest (least risk) debt that institutional investors and sovereign nations can buy.

    Anybody that thinks we are in a "debt crisis" is either really bad at math or intentionally stupid.

    rms02d

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    We are spending 3x times more per month than we are taking in. Its pretty damn clear we have a fiscal crisis.

    We no longer speak in terms of reducing true deficits but rather in terms of having a deficit less than the year before; yes we have a problem.

    The largest holder of US Treasuries is China who is close to a bust in their construction bubble; yes this is a clear and present danger.

    As I said you clearly lack the peripheral focus to understand the situation.

    I recommend you read Micheal Lewis' Boomerang. It might help or maybe you can write a book report on it in your 300 level international financial markets class.

    Thanks again though I get off work at 6:30 I will be ready then if you have any further questions.

    The annual deficit is decreasing each year.

    We don't have a debt crisis. That may conflict with your political views. But its clear that basic math and interest rates also conflict with your political views.

    But I am sure you think you are smarter than the basic laws of math, so whats the point of debating facts.

    rms02d

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    1) I just wanted to point out that MOM, federal outlays don't always exceed receipts. That's all I'm saying. Proper diction.

    2.) In terms of the debt CRISIS, reducing principal isn't necessarily priority number one. It's a great goal, but the debt to gdp ratio is the most important factor and that cat can be skinned more than one way.

    3.) Just checking.

    4.) Ben Bernanke > LonestarAg_10

    1.) Forget the federal outlays. I'm not asking you to look at the accounts/notes receivable vs. the accounts notes/payable and project a 10 year growth chart from one shred of information. This is about the bottom line that is the net operating income. If you bring in less than you make than you have a problem.

    So you can either bark up trees or admit we have a spending/debt problems. Makes no difference to me really i suppose you were good for getting a rise one afternoon. that is all you are really.

    2.) It should be. Now your getting into the funny money accounting Dems and Reps yell at each other about all session. I decline, not worth arguing over a line item.

    3.)Null

    4.)Yes, because QE1, QE 2 and now QE 3 have worked so well. But yes i concede I am not qualified to run the fed nor would I want to put up with the headaches. Private sector is more fun and less headaches.

    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

  • dgoz said...

    In all seriousness, I would be concerned with the stock market. The reason we have stagnant gdp growth is because we no longer care about real growth. Just gambling. Banksters hijacked our economy years ago. http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/finance/blogs/daily-ticker/stock-market-debt-fueled-bubble-steve-keen-121950839.html?.intl=us&.lang=en-us

    And you Sir are 100% correct. We never really created any value from 1998-2008. It was all just an idea that value was being created from trading debt.

    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

  • joetheogre said...

    Don't be a douche.

    This kind of arrogance is exactly why Republicans can't win a national or high profile election.

    Not a Republican, Libertarian.

    Don't post much but read when i can. Just wanted to knock BLFs hubris down a few notches this afternoon, I suppose.

    Apologizes in advance to you.

    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    1.) Forget the federal outlays. I'm not asking you to look at the accounts/notes receivable vs. the accounts notes/payable and project a 10 year growth chart from one shred of information. This is about the bottom line that is the net operating income. If you bring in less than you make than you have a problem.

    So you can either bark up trees or admit we have a spending/debt problems. Makes no difference to me really i suppose you were good for getting a rise one afternoon. that is all you are really.

    2.) It should be. Now your getting into the funny money accounting Dems and Reps yell at each other about all session. I decline, not worth arguing over a line item.

    3.)Null

    4.)Yes, because QE1, QE 2 and now QE 3 have worked so well. But yes i concede I am not qualified to run the fed nor would I want to put up with the headaches. Private sector is more fun and less headaches.

    1.) Government shouldn't strive for profits.

    2.) Lol.

    3.) n/a

    4.) nm

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Keith Niebuhr said...

    They said the same thing in the 80s about the exploding debt.

    They did say that in 80's. Are you referring to the S&L crisis. But, also: National debt didn't outpace gross domestic product until 1998. I attached a chart. A little outdated but you can see how much faster debt was outpacing % of GDP.

    attachment
    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

  • rms02d said...

    The annual deficit is decreasing each year.

    We don't have a debt crisis. That may conflict with your political views. But its clear that basic math and interest rates also conflict with your political views.

    But I am sure you think you are smarter than the basic laws of math, so whats the point of debating facts.

    no it isnt.

    that is your opinion, not a fact.

    laws of Math? if I spend more than I make then I wont run out of money and wont be broke. Got it!!! Are you an academic?

    attachment
    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

  • kitemac said...

    You bash a poster again and you will have to wait a while to respond anything to them. Stop bashing posters. Debate is fine but stop downgrading posters.

    Guessing you are a lib? BLF constantly talks down on people when debating yet now that someone is making your precious libby friend look ignorant you jump to his defense. Typical action, if BLF was a barner I bet Lonestar would be banned already.

    signature image signature image signature image

    azvalleybuckeye

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    no it isnt.

    that is your opinion, not a fact.

    laws of Math? if I spend more than I make then I wont run out of money and wont be broke. Got it!!! Are you an academic?

    There is no way you are what you say you are.

    How do you not know the difference between the deficit and the debt?

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • azvalleybuckeye said...

    Guessing you are a lib? BLF constantly talks down on people when debating yet now that someone is making your precious libby friend look ignorant you jump to his defense. Typical action, if BLF was a barner I bet Lonestar would be banned already.

    sorry

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • kitemac said...

    Personal attakcs of a poster don't have to include profanity, threats, or names.

    No, but they frequently do and as long as the attacker is a friend of the mods nothing is done.

    MrWoodson

  • MrWoodson said...

    No, but they frequently do and as long as the attacker is a friend of the mods nothing is done.

    clap

    signature image signature image signature image

    azvalleybuckeye

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    no it isnt.

    that is your opinion, not a fact.

    laws of Math? if I spend more than I make then I wont run out of money and wont be broke. Got it!!! Are you an academic?

    Sigh...

    For someone that actually read a Mike Lewis book I thought you might understand the difference between debt and deficit.

    Look at the projected annual budget deficit for 2013, and compare to 2012, 2011.

    Then look up the definition of debt and deficit.

    Then, since you are so concerned about "compound interest", and you are good at posting graphs from the internet. Please link a source that shows the amount of interest payments per year in the annual budget since 1990, in inflation adjusted dollars. It may blow your mind. But we are currently paying less annually in interest payments that we were in the mid 1990s.

    Government Debt gets refinanced over time, and the US government is benefiting from current Treasury Bond rates.

    Laws of math...? Your personal salary has no correlation with the functions and spending of the most powerful government in the world. A government which has a currency that happens to be the reserve of the entire world.

    I imagine you paid for your community college degree, your home, and your car, in straight cash, since "if I spend more than I make then I worn run out of money and be broke"

    We aren't in a debt crisis.

    Spend less time reading 1 book by a journalist, and more time looking at the mathematical data and you will see that you aren't smarter than the basic laws of math.

    We have a long term structural deficit, which has existed for 30 years minus 3 under Clinton, yet the US government hasn't collapsed. As long as we cut defense spending, increase revenue, cut discretionary spending, and reform "entitlements", everything will be okay in the long run.

    So I wouldn't purchase that bunker in North Dakota just yet. I know it sounds cool, but the Obama-Gestapo isn't going to create a Zombie apocalypse anytime soon.

    Quit being silly and look at the data. You aren't smarter than institutional investors and Soveriegn Nations that spend billions on US debt.

    Not sure how a "real estate" bubble in China has any effect on their investment in US T-bonds. If anything they would just spend more on T-bills while they tear down neighborhoods to limit the oversupply that causes bubbles. The Chinese and American economies are two different animals.

    rms02d

  • I'm out of up votes...rant

    signature image signature image signature image

    BBucksorBeGone8

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    So in easy terms you budget $200/month for beer. in January you only spend $180 on beer. GREAT!!! you have a $20 surplus. But then you pursue an 11 month bender where you consume $600/month in booze. Not only are you really hung over on December 31st, but your really broke.

    Now I get it.... hoops

    VegasTide

  • Here is a nice chart from our right wing friends at the heritage foundation.

    Take at look at net interest payments in 2012 dollars.

    Kind of pokes giant hole in your "compound interest" argument. We are paying 30% less annually than in 1990 with a much larger deficit. It will likely decrease even as the debt expands while much of the debt rolls over to current rates.

    Then take a look at annual deficit from 2008 -2012

    Clearly shows a decreasing deficit each year. Its around $900 billion for 2013

    And before you go calling Obama a free spending socialist fascist monkey man. Take into account the $400 to $500 billion in decreased revenues annually after 2008 (its clearly in the chart) thanks to a recession created by his predecessors and a Tax Cut law that never attempted to decrease revenues going forward.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by rms02d on 3/13/2013 at 7:33 PM

    The Federal Budget 1992 2012

    http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2012/10/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2012/the-federal-budget-1992-2012

    www.heritage.org

    rms02d

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    Not a Republican, Libertarian.

    Do you support abortion and full federal legalization of gay marriages?

    signature image signature image signature image

    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • rms02d said...

    Sigh...

    For someone that actually read a Mike Lewis book I thought you might understand the difference between debt and deficit.

    Look at the projected annual budget deficit for 2013, and compare to 2012, 2011.

    Then look up the definition of debt and deficit.

    Then, since you are so concerned about "compound interest", and you are good at posting graphs from the internet. Please link a source that shows the amount of interest payments per year in the annual budget since 1990, in inflation adjusted dollars. It may blow your mind. But we are currently paying less annually in interest payments that we were in the mid 1990s.

    Government Debt gets refinanced over time, and the US government is benefiting from current Treasury Bond rates.

    Laws of math...? Your personal salary has no correlation with the functions and spending of the most powerful government in the world. A government which has a currency that happens to be the reserve of the entire world.

    I imagine you paid for your community college degree, your home, and your car, in straight cash, since "if I spend more than I make then I worn run out of money and be broke"

    We aren't in a debt crisis.

    Spend less time reading 1 book by a journalist, and more time looking at the mathematical data and you will see that you aren't smarter than the basic laws of math.

    We have a long term structural deficit, which has existed for 30 years minus 3 under Clinton, yet the US government hasn't collapsed. As long as we cut defense spending, increase revenue, cut discretionary spending, and reform "entitlements", everything will be okay in the long run.

    So I wouldn't purchase that bunker in North Dakota just yet. I know it sounds cool, but the Obama-Gestapo isn't going to create a Zombie apocalypse anytime soon.

    Quit being silly and look at the data. You aren't smarter than institutional investors and Soveriegn Nations that spend billions on US debt.

    Not sure how a "real estate" bubble in China has any effect on their investment in US T-bonds. If anything they would just spend more on T-bills while they tear down neighborhoods to limit the oversupply that causes bubbles. The Chinese and American economies are two different animals.

    Wayyy too much logic here

    signature image signature image signature image

    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • kitemac said...

    You are more than welcome to PM me or any of the other mods on what you deem as far worse on the front page.

    At the risk of sounding rude to someone who is trying to promote civility, pick a thread, dude. This board is a cesspool.

    RabbitSC

  • LonestarAg_10 said...

    They did say that in 80's. Are you referring to the S&L crisis. But, also: National debt didn't outpace gross domestic product until 1998. I attached a chart. A little outdated but you can see how much faster debt was outpacing % of GDP.

    I like your style

    Any books you recommend for a novice at this stuff?

    signature image

    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

    amrollZ71 ●

  • joetheogre said...

    Do you support abortion and full federal legalization of gay marriages?

    I don't support state funded abortion under any circumstance. but essentially abortion is a gray area, I feel you should never under any circumstance bring harm against another.

    Marriage is no business of the State. The term marriage to me, serves a religious bond between two PEOPLE. Therefore, determining what is defined as "marriage" should be left up to the churches, cults, and any other denomination of faith or lack thereof. The Government can however define domestic partnerships, or something in the sense, which gives legal rights between the two citizens. If the state chooses it can give rights to the legal union of two PEOPLE, notice I said PEOPLE, then the same rights of a partnership should be given to a couple of the same sex.

    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

  • amrollZ71 said...

    I like your style

    Any books you recommend for a novice at this stuff?

    For personal finance?

    signature image signature image signature image

    LonestarAg_10

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