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  • Morgan Holder said...

    Why do people keep saying this? Is it b/c HaHa was a 5 star and Vinnie a 3 star? Vinnie played much much more last year and that's not going to change.

    I feel like we've seen several times where guys come in and play early but then get leapfrogged by people who didn't play as much initially, or have been in system a couple years but didn't get the D until then.

    It's all about when that light comes on, IMO, and while Vinnie was great this season, he doesn't have the natural athletic ability HaHa has.

    I understand it like this; if we were going to put what it takes to be great at safety and make the rating as a whole out of 10, Vinnie has a cap because he's very talented and uses his football knowledge to make up for other things he lacks, so he would max out at an 8/10. Haha, if he can get the D down, could be that 10/10 player at his position.

    Haha is taller than Vinnie and faster than Vinnie and at safety, that's nothing to sneer at when he might be needed to cover a lot of ground quickly to bring down an opposing WR or go one on one with a 6'5 TE or WR. Vinnie is like 5'10 and while he used his football knowledge this year to make up for those attributes he gives up to HaHa, if HaHa gets that same knowledge of the D down then there's no way Vinnie starts over him.

    TalHawkins112

  • PTCcock195 said...

    You think there's a chance he leaves?

    I catch hell from Bama fans whenever I bring up that he's not going to start and/or it wasn't the wisest choice for him to go there. That's assuming playing a lot on defense and getting to the league was his intention over winning MNCs as a special teamer, providing depth, and getting a college degree.

    JMO but it's possible Fulton leaves, but then again if one of the incoming JUCO CBs doesn't pick up the D immediately and needs a redshirt, then Fulton could easily be our 3rd corner.

    That being said, Saban usually brings in JUCO guys for a reason so it's unlikely we would need Fulton for that 3rd corner spot.

    TalHawkins112

  • TalHawkins112 said...

    JMO but it's possible Fulton leaves, but then again if one of the incoming JUCO CBs doesn't pick up the D immediately and needs a redshirt, then Fulton could easily be our 3rd corner.

    That being said, Saban usually brings in JUCO guys for a reason so it's unlikely we would need Fulton for that 3rd corner spot.

    I have not heard any rumblings about Fulton leaving.....what makes you suggest that?

    bigwilly64

  • PTCcock195 said...

    You think there's a chance he leaves?

    I catch hell from Bama fans whenever I bring up that he's not going to start and/or it wasn't the wisest choice for him to go there. That's assuming playing a lot on defense and getting to the league was his intention over winning MNCs as a special teamer, providing depth, and getting a college degree.

    To be fair, in 2010's NFL draft we had a 2nd string CB drafted and he's still in the league.

    Depth can be a b!tch, but it doesn't mean he won't play at the next level.

    BetterOff

  • bigwilly64 said...

    I have not heard any rumblings about Fulton leaving.....what makes you suggest that?

    I think it's just common sense. We just brought in 2 juco corners, which is a pretty strong indicator they don't have faith in him at this point.

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    Grand Slam

  • BetterOff said...

    To be fair, in 2010's NFL draft we had a 2nd string CB drafted and he's still in the league.

    Depth can be a b!tch, but it doesn't mean he won't play at the next level.

    Barring unforeseen over-valuing of ability, he'd be playing Gilmore's spot in 2012 and probably would have been starting this past year opposite him.

    Haven't seen the numbers the last year or so, especially with Bama's recent influx, but we've been at the top or tied for the top with number of DBs in the league.

    Edit: it's only a stickler for me because Ellis Johnson told him this would happen before he went and it's always a hot button on our board if someone brings it up.

    This post was edited by PTCcock195 on 3/5/2012 at 9:24 AM

    PTCcock195

  • TalHawkins112 said...

    I feel like we've seen several times where guys come in and play early but then get leapfrogged by people who didn't play as much initially, or have been in system a couple years but didn't get the D until then.

    It's all about when that light comes on, IMO, and while Vinnie was great this season, he doesn't have the natural athletic ability HaHa has.

    I understand it like this; if we were going to put what it takes to be great at safety and make the rating as a whole out of 10, Vinnie has a cap because he's very talented and uses his football knowledge to make up for other things he lacks, so he would max out at an 8/10. Haha, if he can get the D down, could be that 10/10 player at his position.

    Haha is taller than Vinnie and faster than Vinnie and at safety, that's nothing to sneer at when he might be needed to cover a lot of ground quickly to bring down an opposing WR or go one on one with a 6'5 TE or WR. Vinnie is like 5'10 and while he used his football knowledge this year to make up for those attributes he gives up to HaHa, if HaHa gets that same knowledge of the D down then there's no way Vinnie starts over him.

    I think this is spot on. Vinnie is a solid player who is very intelligent and tough as nails. I think HaHa has the ability to be an elite player though once he gets the playbook down. I think both will see a lot of PT this season and I believe either can get the job done but before the season is done, I expect the light to come on for HaHa and for us to see him start making some big plays. By 2013, I think he'll be starting over Vinnie for good. This kid was an elite recruit and there is no reason to believe he won't develop into a special player. It's just that Vinnie came in with a great understanding of our defense which was to be expected seeing as how he was a defensive coach's son.

    HADOUKEN

  • Grand Slam said...

    I think it's just common sense. We just brought in 2 juco corners, which is a pretty strong indicator they don't have faith in him at this point.

    Maybe....or it could be that we are woefully thin at CB. Aside from Milliner and Fulton, there were nothing but true Fr cbs. I know Saban usually brings in Juco goes to start, but I wouldn't write off Fulton yet....we definitely needed the Juco guys for depth also.

    bigwilly64

  • I think it'll depend on if Haha can show the coaches that he knows the defense then he will start over Vinnie. Vinnie's greatest strength is his knowledge of the playbook. The longer other Haha is in the system the less Vinnie's strength comes into play.

    As far as cornerback is concerned it will be a battle between dixon and fulton for the second and third spot. With belue being the forth corner.

    WesMantoothCh09

  • roltiderol said...

    belue was just a resign. i dont think we were after him hard but we simply honored his original offer. not saying we didnt want him but i really dont think he jumps fulton just like that

    i think fulton is our 3rd corner. its pretty clear the staff wants dixon to start immediately though

    It has been a while since I read anything about Belue, but someone was saying where they thought Belue was actually better than Dixom(Someone knowledgeable btw lol). time will tell though.

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    amrollZ71

  • Expect to see an 09 situation where Sunseri will be named the starter at the end of spring but I think Haha will be the starter come the Michigan game.

    I think you see a platoon of Hubbard and Dickson this year similar to the Anders/Upshaw one we saw a few years ago

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    Ichabod

  • PTCcock195 said...

    Barring unforeseen over-valuing of ability, he'd be playing Gilmore's spot in 2012 and probably would have been starting this past year opposite him.

    Haven't seen the numbers the last year or so, especially with Bama's recent influx, but we've been at the top or tied for the top with number of DBs in the league.

    Edit: it's only a stickler for me because Ellis Johnson told him this would happen before he went and it's always a hot button on our board if someone brings it up.

    I agree that he would probably be starting at USCe this year, but I am not sold that he won't be playing a bunch of snaps this year. I think Dixon should probably win the starting job ahead of him, but I expect him to be the #3 guy. With the coaching that you get from having Saban as your position coach, it is hard to argue with his decision. Bama is putting two DB's in the first round this year and another in the middle rounds. That will make 7 in the past 3 years, and 8 in 4 years. That will mean that every DB that has played in the nickel package has gotten drafted that has been eligible since 2008.

    I do really like Ellis Johnson as well. He had some good defenses when he was at Bama as well.

    BetterOff

  • Ichabod said...

    Expect to see an 09 situation where Sunseri will be named the starter at the end of spring but I think Haha will be the starter come the Michigan game.

    I think you see a platoon of Hubbard and Dickson this year similar to the Anders/Upshaw one we saw a few years ago

    Depends on whether he elects to play Trey out of position at the SAM. I think he will as he likes to get the best on the field regardless of position, but we'll see. Hear CJ is going to be 100% back, but I want to see that on the field first as well.

    BetterOff

  • roltiderol said...

    belue was just a resign. i dont think we were after him hard but we simply honored his original offer. not saying we didnt want him but i really dont think he jumps fulton just like that

    i think fulton is our 3rd corner. its pretty clear the staff wants dixon to start immediately though

    Disagree on Belue. Wasn't just a resign. If we were about honoring original offers then Shannon brown would be wearing crimson not a bulldogs.

    Saban doesn't bring in Juco unless they have the ability to come right in and play. Belue and Dixon will play extensively this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see Fulton transfer as well.

    Carswell and bowman are most likely out the door

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    Ichabod

  • BetterOff said...

    Depends on whether he elects to play Trey out of position at the SAM. I think he will as he likes to get the best on the field regardless of position, but we'll see. Hear CJ is going to be 100% back, but I want to see that on the field first as well.

    I've seen Mosely around campus. He's been walking just fine but that only says so much.

    I agree with you about them getting the best on the field. I've thought the starting 4 come Michigan will be Hubbard, Johnson, Mosely, and Depriest.

    Ivory should be the ng as well but I think come third and long jesse Williams will shift towards the center

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    Ichabod

  • Ichabod said...

    I've seen Mosely around campus. He's been walking just fine but that only says so much.

    I agree with you about them getting the best on the field. I've thought the starting 4 come Michigan will be Hubbard, Johnson, Mosely, and Depriest.

    Ivory should be the ng as well but I think come third and long jesse Williams will shift towards the center

    Agree.

    If Ivory is able, he should be at the NG, but if he isn't ready, I could see Williams sliding in full time as well with Square and Dial being the DE's.

    I don't see how they can keep DePriest off the field this coming year no matter where he has to play. He has the size for inside and the speed to play anywhere.

    BetterOff

  • BetterOff said...

    Agree.

    If Ivory is able, he should be at the NG, but if he isn't ready, I could see Williams sliding in full time as well with Square and Dial being the DE's.

    I don't see how they can keep DePriest off the field this coming year no matter where he has to play. He has the size for inside and the speed to play anywhere.

    That's why I think Depriest could be at Sam with Johnson and Mosely in the inside.

    I mean this is a great problem to have.

    I don't see Patrick or arctinson playing unless its special teams

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    Ichabod

  • BetterOff said...

    Agree.

    If Ivory is able, he should be at the NG, but if he isn't ready, I could see Williams sliding in full time as well with Square and Dial being the DE's.

    I don't see how they can keep DePriest off the field this coming year no matter where he has to play. He has the size for inside and the speed to play anywhere.

    I wondered about this. I feel like very few have Dial in their early projections but didnt he perform favorably last year?

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    King CedarCrest

  • King CedarCrest said...

    I wondered about this. I feel like very few have Dial in their early projections but didnt he perform favorably last year?

    He won't start but he's in the rotation and gets a lot of PT. Williams and square are your ends

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    Ichabod

  • Ichabod said...

    He won't start but he's in the rotation and gets a lot of PT. Williams and square are your ends

    No chance Williams slides to nose? I haven't kept up with ivorys progress at all, but some mention the possibility.

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    King CedarCrest

  • King CedarCrest said...

    No chance Williams slides to nose? I haven't kept up with ivorys progress at all, but some mention the possibility.

    To start? It's a possibility but I think you slide Williams to nose in a passing situation while ivory is more of a run stopper.

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    Ichabod

  • Ichabod said...

    Disagree on Belue. Wasn't just a resign. If we were about honoring original offers then Shannon brown would be wearing crimson not a bulldogs.

    Saban doesn't bring in Juco unless they have the ability to come right in and play. Belue and Dixon will play extensively this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see Fulton transfer as well.

    Carswell and bowman are most likely out the door

    Belue is a hell of a player and will get plenty of snaps next year.

    Depriest starts from day 1 imo.

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    BamaShack

  • BamaShack said...

    Belue is a hell of a player and will get plenty of snaps next year.

    Depriest starts from day 1 imo.

    Agreed on all accounts.

    Of all the incoming freshman LBs Id say Ragland will see the field first.

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    Ichabod

  • Ichabod said...

    Agreed on all accounts.

    Of all the incoming freshman LBs Id say Ragland will see the field first.

    He'll turn some heads. Was overlooked to a certain extent this cycle. Kid committed early and cruited. Great kid. Know a few of his coaches and they all rave about him. Big fast and goes sideline to sideline. And hey he can play TE as well. Hell he could play on the BBall team if he really wanted to. Just another special talent at LB.

    So So So much talent.

    Many people have no idea just how good Hubbard and Fanning are going to be. If the light bulb comes on for Fanning..... biggrin

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    BamaShack

  • BamaShack said...

    He'll turn some heads. Was overlooked to a certain extent this cycle. Kid committed early and cruited. Great kid. Know a few of his coaches and they all rave about him. Big fast and goes sideline to sideline. And hey he can play TE as well. Hell he could play on the BBall team if he really wanted to. Just another special talent at LB.

    So So So much talent.

    Many people have no idea just how good Hubbard and Fanning are going to be. If the light bulb comes on for Fanning..... biggrin

    Lucky was raving about Fanning the other day. Kids potential is though the roof

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    Ichabod