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Ban Everything. (Obviously not, but good read)

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Humor me for a second. Your a SCOTUS justice. You have just been brought a case about a gun restriction law that is being challenged by a citizen of a county against county. Explain to me how you would go about ruling and what your ruling might be.

    I would simply say that there is no restrictions against guns that do not have explosive tendencies(Rock Launches, etc.) and to restrict the purchase or use of any firearm that does not have these tendencies, is encroaching upon the second amendment of the US constitution, thus unconstitutional.

    Note: The only kind of legislation against arms I think should even be considered would be the kind against Rocket Launchers, honestly, I am not sure if they can be considered a normal firearm.

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    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

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  • I'm out as well. Will check in the morning.

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    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

    amrollZ71 ●

  • UMWolverines said...

    Pretty sure it's harder to commit large murders with knifes than it is with guns.

    You might be right but several African nations would argue with you. Rwanda saw hundreds of thousands killed by machetes. Most were woman and children that couldn't flee but many men died as well because they wouldn't leave their family.

    But again, this is a human problem not a weapon problem.

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    "We're modern-day gladiators, and that mental toughness is really important to have in a good team." Nick Saban

    samdog91 ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    His first section is arguable.

    His point about human condition is a cop-out. Humans have always done certain things, but that doesn't mean that we don't have laws because of it. Humans are always going to steal, why have laws to prevent stealing since stealing is going to happen anyways? No matter what anyone does thiefs find ways. I guess we should just end all theft laws.

    The third part about the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is not even being argued. It's a sideshow.

    But the third part is true. If a guy doesn't kill people with a gun, it will be a bomb. Mass gunmen 98% of the time plan on suicide at the end. If you somehow have guns taken away(which would never happen, because people will always be able to get any gun they want), you would see a rise in suicide bombs.

    Also, what guns get taken away? Just fully automatic weapons? How about semi-auto like the AR-15? What about shotguns, which can do a lot of damage in just one pull of the trigger? Handguns that can easily be concealed until you reach your murdering destination?

    What about the civil war that breaks out? I met a lot of people while I served. I met some guys that would gladly die before he gave up his guns.

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    MarineMountie ●

  • MarineMountie said...

    But the third part is true. If a guy doesn't kill people with a gun, it will be a bomb. Mass gunmen 98% of the time plan on suicide at the end. If you somehow have guns taken away(which would never happen, because people will always be able to get any gun they want), you would see a rise in suicide bombs.

    Also, what guns get taken away? Just fully automatic weapons? How about semi-auto like the AR-15? What about shotguns, which can do a lot of damage in just one pull of the trigger? Handguns that can easily be concealed until you reach your murdering destination?

    What about the civil war that breaks out? I met a lot of people while I served. I met some guys that would gladly die before he gave up his guns.

    What if?

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • samdog91 said...

    But even if that theory held water your saying its a problem solver to limit clip size. Is it ok that a gunman killed 15 kids compared to 20 all because you limited the clip size?

    So you'd rather have extra bullets than have Olivia Engel, Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley and Jesse Lewis still alive? Gotcha

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    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • ejb5212 said...

    So you'd rather have extra bullets than have Olivia Engel, Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley and Jesse Lewis still alive? Gotcha

    Bump for being an awful human being.

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    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • shortcbaseballa said...

    stop assuming about Obama just because its another thing to hate him for.

    He has never once brought legislation against the 2nd amendment. So it truly doesn't matter what you think. Actions speak louder than words... Or for you, chain emails.

    Agreed about Obama. Not a fan of his, but the constant twisting of agendas and conclusory assumptions about the man create nothing but confusion about what the guy actually says or does.

    Plus, there are plenty of restrictions in place on gun ownership right now. Is there enough? That's a discussion for another thread. However, even a cursory knowledge of the relationship between Congress and how one goes about revising or eliminating constitutional amendments would show that it is nearly impossible to do so. The 2nd Amendment is safe, and most can safely assume it will remain as long as the USA exists.

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    AUHeismanTrust ●

  • samdog91 said...

    You might be right but several African nations would argue with you. Rwanda saw hundreds of thousands killed by machetes. Most were woman and children that couldn't flee but many men died as well because they wouldn't leave their family.

    But again, this is a human problem not a weapon problem.

    ..... thats because there were only machetes.... very very few guns

    signature image

    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • AUHeismanTrust said...

    Agreed about Obama. Not a fan of his, but the constant twisting of agendas and conclusory assumptions about the man create nothing but confusion about what the guy actually says or does.

    Plus, there are plenty of restrictions in place on gun ownership right now. Is there enough? That's a discussion for another thread. However, even a cursory knowledge of the relationship between Congress and how one goes about revising or eliminating constitutional amendments would show that it is nearly impossible to do so. The 2nd Amendment is safe, and most can safely assume it will remain as long as the USA exists.

    The way the president has to go about anything with congress is nearly impossible...but that's for another thread too

    UMWolverines ●

  • ejb5212 said...

    ..... thats because there were only machetes.... very very few guns

    No the bad guys had guns too. But bullets cost money and the machetes strike more fear into the people they were trying to get rid of. Anyway the result was unarmed people were killed by other humans with items that kill, machetes and guns. The human race killed each other with swords and arrows for thousands of years. Then came guns. We will always find a way to kill one another.

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    "We're modern-day gladiators, and that mental toughness is really important to have in a good team." Nick Saban

    samdog91 ●

  • samdog91 said...

    No the bad guys had guns too. But bullets cost money and the machetes strike more fear into the people they were trying to get rid of. Anyway the result was unarmed people were killed by other humans with items that kill, machetes and guns. The human race killed each other with swords and arrows for thousands of years. Then came guns. We will always find a way to kill one another.

    This. Forever we thought human evolution came through a linear process that went from primitive to neanderthal to homo sapian(in a nut shell). Now we know that several if not many hominid forms coexisted at once with "us" coming out on top and driving others to extinction ...it's not hard to hypothesize that some people will be geared more susceptably to harming others at birth than others.

    SCirish843

  • ejb5212 said...

    So you'd rather have extra bullets than have Olivia Engel, Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley and Jesse Lewis still alive? Gotcha

    Of course you pick up on my hypothetical what if. But ill play. Your still left with 15 dead children. Thats not progress. Or do you really rationalize whats acceptable and whats not by body count? Would yall be up in arms if it was only 3 dead kids? Well un arms i mean.

    Your still left with the real problem and culprit. The crazy dude that killed 15 kids instead of 20. If you want to stand in front of Congress and get a pat on the back because you just passed a bill that limited clip size and only 15 kids were killed because of it go ahead.

    But do you really think that will work? Lets pretend clip size did matter when it came to shooting kids huddled in the floor afraid to move. If the killer wanted a certain clip and it was illegal in the US do you really think he couldnt get one? You can order any drug....hell you can order anything you want from the internet from any country. I promise you, you can. If people want it, there will always be people supplying it.

    But its if yall think the body count wouldnt be as high or the event wouldnt have happened at all if it werent for the bushmaster rifle. A handgun would do the job just the same. In those small rooms and halls it might even be a better weapon. The kid from VT demonstrated that.

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    "We're modern-day gladiators, and that mental toughness is really important to have in a good team." Nick Saban

    samdog91 ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    His first section is arguable.

    His point about human condition is a cop-out. Humans have always done certain things, but that doesn't mean that we don't have laws because of it. Humans are always going to steal, why have laws to prevent stealing since stealing is going to happen anyways? No matter what anyone does thiefs find ways. I guess we should just end all theft laws.

    The third part about the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is not even being argued. It's a sideshow.

    What? A cop-out? Its the root of the issue. We already have laws against what happened it Newtown. Its called capital murder. You somehow think it wouldnt happen if we took away assault rifles. You are the one running around the issue. Perhaps our greatest strength as a species is our ability to find a way to accomplish any feat we set our minds to. And laws have zero effect on people like Adam Lanza. They go into the massacre knowing they will kill themselves. He wasnt worried about going to jail. It wouldnt have mattered if all he had was a hand gun or a bomb or a sword. This is nothing like a thief stealing for his drug habit. I agree laws are for prevention as well as for punishment but this is not a rational person we are talking about that knows he has to navigate society in some form.

    What is your stance anyway? Do you want all guns to be illegal or just assault rifles? And if its just assault rifles how do you stop people like the VT shooter?

    And are you saying that people dont kill people in ways other than by shootings? Guns dont think, people are the ones that choose to act and kill other people. The only time that phrase isnt true is when people or kids are killed accidently by guns. Theres never a reason for a child to have access to a gun. But then again thats the parents choice not to prevent their child from having access to the gun. But that phrase means nothing more than it doesnt matter if you take away guns, people will still kill each other. I could say swords dont kill people, people kill people. Or rocks dont kill people, people kill people. Or Hands dont kill people, people kill people. No matter the tool used, its a humans choice that kills people. If you want to go to the root of the problem then thats where you start. If you wanna do something fight for more mental health professionals in schools and eventually genetic testing that will pin point problem individuals. People that murder have very distinct brains and brain patterns as well. Like it or not its the future of prevention.

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    "We're modern-day gladiators, and that mental toughness is really important to have in a good team." Nick Saban

    samdog91 ●

  • samdog91 said...

    Of course you pick up on my hypothetical what if. But ill play. Your still left with 15 dead children. Thats not progress. Or do you really rationalize whats acceptable and whats not by body count? Would yall be up in arms if it was only 3 dead kids? Well un arms i mean.

    Your still left with the real problem and culprit. The crazy dude that killed 15 kids instead of 20. If you want to stand in front of Congress and get a pat on the back because you just passed a bill that limited clip size and only 15 kids were killed because of it go ahead.

    But do you really think that will work? Lets pretend clip size did matter when it came to shooting kids huddled in the floor afraid to move. If the killer wanted a certain clip and it was illegal in the US do you really think he couldnt get one? You can order any drug....hell you can order anything you want from the internet from any country. I promise you, you can. If people want it, there will always be people supplying it.

    But its if yall think the body count wouldnt be as high or the event wouldnt have happened at all if it werent for the bushmaster rifle. A handgun would do the job just the same. In those small rooms and halls it might even be a better weapon. The kid from VT demonstrated that.

    .... i picked up on your hypothetical because your hypothetical was that saying that if smaller clip size could've cut the death count, but only by 25%, it wasn't worth it. awful awful human being

    This post was edited by ejb5212 on 12/19/2012 at 3:56 AM

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    ejb5212

  • Anyone in this thread could go down to their local hardware store and get a number of things they could commit mass murder with. It isn't just guns. Average American male is probably close to 5-10 180 lbs. Arm him with a knife/crowbar/hammer/automatic weapon/ bolt action weapon I believe if he had the desire to lock himself in an elementary classroom with the intent to kill. The results would play out pretty close to the same. Maybe I'm wrong. Not here to argue for or against gun control. Fact is people kill people has happened since before guns were invented.

    unclenatedawg

  • Give me a break. The hi cap. magazine ban is just ridiculous. You could do just as much damage in a school with an eight round pump shotgun or a .357 with speedloaders. Gun haters target scary black rifles and semi auto handguns because they are easy targets and will crack the door for a full gun ban.

    Surferdude

  • Uncle-Nate-Dawg said...

    Anyone in this thread could go down to their local hardware store and get a number of things they could commit mass murder with. It isn't just guns. Average American male is probably close to 5-10 180 lbs. Arm him with a knife/crowbar/hammer/automatic weapon/ bolt action weapon I believe if he had the desire to lock himself in an elementary classroom with the intent to kill. The results would play out pretty close to the same. Maybe I'm wrong. Not here to argue for or against gun control. Fact is people kill people has happened since before guns were invented.

    It's not about totally preventing violence, it's about minimizing it. Semi-automatics, handguns and extended clips serve no practical purpose to the general public. If people want them for target practice, fine... keep them at shooting ranges locked away with strict procedures to sign a gun out.

    I asked in a different thread, name one good thing that came from semi-autos, handguns and extended clips (outside of the military or law enforcement)? Just one.

    Just to be clear, we should NEVER do away with a person's right to own guns. But there is no need for the general public to have anything but rifles and shotguns. None.

    getmyjive11

  • samdog91 said...

    What? A cop-out? Its the root of the issue. We already have laws against what happened it Newtown. Its called capital murder. You somehow think it wouldnt happen if we took away assault rifles. You are the one running around the issue. Perhaps our greatest strength as a species is our ability to find a way to accomplish any feat we set our minds to. And laws have zero effect on people like Adam Lanza. They go into the massacre knowing they will kill themselves. He wasnt worried about going to jail. It wouldnt have mattered if all he had was a hand gun or a bomb or a sword. This is nothing like a thief stealing for his drug habit. I agree laws are for prevention as well as for punishment but this is not a rational person we are talking about that knows he has to navigate society in some form.

    What is your stance anyway? Do you want all guns to be illegal or just assault rifles? And if its just assault rifles how do you stop people like the VT shooter?

    And are you saying that people dont kill people in ways other than by shootings? Guns dont think, people are the ones that choose to act and kill other people. The only time that phrase isnt true is when people or kids are killed accidently by guns. Theres never a reason for a child to have access to a gun. But then again thats the parents choice not to prevent their child from having access to the gun. But that phrase means nothing more than it doesnt matter if you take away guns, people will still kill each other. I could say swords dont kill people, people kill people. Or rocks dont kill people, people kill people. Or Hands dont kill people, people kill people. No matter the tool used, its a humans choice that kills people. If you want to go to the root of the problem then thats where you start. If you wanna do something fight for more mental health professionals in schools and eventually genetic testing that will pin point problem individuals. People that murder have very distinct brains and brain patterns as well. Like it or not its the future of prevention.

    Hand guns, semi-autos, extended clips and standard procedures for preventing the mentally ill from purchasing guns. That would go a long way.

    getmyjive11

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Yea. I know right? Of the 62 mass murders since 1982, not one has been stopped by a CCL. Odd..

    ..... stop and think for a moment, if one was stopped* by a CCL would it even be classified as a mass murder? good lord. logic > some of you.

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    azvalleybuckeye

  • Surferdude said...

    Give me a break. The hi cap. magazine ban is just ridiculous. You could do just as much damage in a school with an eight round pump shotgun or a .357 with speedloaders. Gun haters target scary black rifles and semi auto handguns because they are easy targets and will crack the door for a full gun ban.

    Full gun ban will never ever happen ever. Owning a firearm is a constitutional amendment which is damn mear inpossible to change. Requires a 2/3's vote in both the house and the senate just to be proposed and then 3/4 of state legislatures must approve it. No way enough representatives would approve suggesting the amendment yet alone 38 states approving it.

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    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • azvalleybuckeye said...

    ..... stop and think for a moment, if one was stopped* by a CCL would it even be classified as a mass murder? good lord. logic > some of you.

    .... Yes it still would, mass murder is killing 4 or more people in a single incident. The guy killed by a witness murdered 10 people before being killed I believe.

    Edit he killed 8 ppl and wounded 3 before being killed fleeing the scene

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by ejb5212 on 12/19/2012 at 8:30 AM

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    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • samdog91 said...

    You might be right but several African nations would argue with you. Rwanda saw hundreds of thousands killed by machetes. Most were woman and children that couldn't flee but many men died as well because they wouldn't leave their family.

    But again, this is a human problem not a weapon problem.

    Nobody is gonna run down the street with a machete to kill people when only the cops would have guns. You're taking an enormous risk and sane or not, everybody knows the end result.

    I've thrown in my two cents. Ban ALL handguns and auto and semi automatic weapons. You want a shotgun or rifle for hunting, so be it. You can "defend" your family with a shotgun or rifle if need be. No reason to have a glock or 9mm imo. If people say, it's my hobby.... Find a new hobby. Become a big brother or big sister to a boys and girls club. Lord knows that we need it. I put in my 15 years of helping out the youth of society and while I would still like to do it, I now have my own family and have to look out for them first and foremost.

    I will get back to doing that again though when I retire. God Bless you all and have a happy and safe holiday season.

    Don't drink and drive.

    CoachGomez214 ●

  • Coach-Gomez said...

    Nobody is gonna run down the street with a machete to kill people when only the cops would have guns. You're taking an enormous risk and sane or not, everybody knows the end result.

    I've thrown in my two cents. Ban ALL handguns and auto and semi automatic weapons. You want a shotgun or rifle for hunting, so be it. You can "defend" your family with a shotgun or rifle if need be. No reason to have a glock or 9mm imo. If people say, it's my hobby.... Find a new hobby. Become a big brother or big sister to a boys and girls club. Lord knows that we need it. I put in my 15 years of helping out the youth of society and while I would still like to do it, I now have my own family and have to look out for them first and foremost.

    I will get back to doing that again though when I retire. God Bless you all and have a happy and safe holiday season.

    Don't drink and drive.

    Well said. My thoughts exactly.

    getmyjive11

  • samdog91 said...

    No the bad guys had guns too. But bullets cost money and the machetes strike more fear into the people they were trying to get rid of. Anyway the result was unarmed people were killed by other humans with items that kill, machetes and guns. The human race killed each other with swords and arrows for thousands of years. Then came guns. We will always find a way to kill one another.

    I don't believe that. I feel as a society that you change one person at a time and eventually things are eliminated like killing, raping, robbing, racism, etc.... You have to change one person at a time because when you do, you have the trickle down affect and ALL people in their family follow the same way.

    Keep positive, bro...

    CoachGomez214 ●

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