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Big 10 Roundtable - Spring Edition #3 - Front 7's

  • In lieu of studying for my accounting final...

    Michigan's big thing is that we're exchanging size for speed for the most case along the DL. Upgrading on quickness across the board.

    SDE
    SR Craig Roh (6'5 270) - moving over from WDE, where he started last year. He got bigger and is looking to beef up more for his new position, but he should be one of our top D-linemen next year.

    RS FR Keith Heitzmann (6'3 250) - had a huge game on Saturday at the Spring Game - possibly our top defender of the day. He looks to be a strong second team linemen, and with Mattison rotating DL like crazy, I'm sure he'll get a lot of PT

    RS JR Nathan Brink (6'5 265) - extremely impressive last spring before he was passed on the depth chart and didn't see much time. He was hurt this spring, so he'll have to make up time in the summer and fall workouts. Could contend with Heitzmann for the top spot.

    DT
    JR Jibreel Black (6'2 260) - also moved over from the WDE spot, where he was second team last year. He has a lot of beefing up to do, but his incredible speed could be a very valuable asset next to monstrous Will Campbell. Providing he puts on enough weight without losing his speed, he could be an incredible force in the middle on pass rushes.

    RS JR Quinton Washington (6'4 302) - hasn't impressed very much so far, but by all accounts should be our second team player, receiving some solid minutes and hopefully being more of a run-stopper compared to Black's pass-rushing skills.

    NT
    SR William Campbell (6'5 320) - oh Will Campbell. The five star dud. Now comes the year where he really needs to step up. He has been one of the most vocal defenders and is really stepping up into a leadership role, motivating other linemen. That's great and all, but if he doesn't step up and actually do his job of taking up double teams and stopping the run, he'll be passed quickly on the depth chart.

    FR Ondre Pipkins (6'3 320) - Another five star, but he actually has promise because he hasn't busted yet. He'll be in the two deep the moment he steps on campus as long as he didn't get mortally wounded in the offseason. He could easily beat out Campbell for a starting spot if he performs well or if Campbell blows it again.

    RS SO Richard Ash (6'3 300) - he's the backup for now, but hasn't done much. Most likely won't see the field too much, but hopefully he comes along and surprises people.

    WDE
    SO Frank Clark (6'3 230) - this is a very tight battle between Clark and Beyer for the starting spot, and we can't really go wrong with either one. Frank Clark is an athletic freak and showed great plays last year towards the end of the year. If he can learn the schemes better, he'll be the starter.

    SO Brennan Beyer (6'3 230) - Beyer was the starter in the Spring Game, transitioning from SAM last year. He knows the schemes and is always in the right place in the right time, he's just not the athlete that Clark is.

    That's the DL. Strengths should be the outside, and the weakness is definitely the middle. Black and Campbell are both unknown at their (new) positions, and no one knows how they'll do against the run especially. Alabama should have a field day with the inside run game.

    SAM
    RS SO Jake Ryan (6'3 230) - Jake Ryan is probably our best player on the defense. He just makes plays. He still has learning to do and he should learn a lot more about the defense and knowing where he should be, but he just has a knack for the ball.

    RS JR Cam Gordon (6'3 222) - The Spring hype machine. Every offseason, he has been hyped at whatever position he's decided to switch to. All amounting to nothing so far. He should be a very solid backup to Ryan, and could get a lot of PT with Mattison's constant rotations.

    MIKE
    RS SR Kenny Demens (6'1 250) - Should be one of the main leaders of the defense. He was our leading tackler last year, and was out for some of the spring with a concussion and wrist injury. He's gonna be a force this year as long as he is able to read the plays a little better.

    FR Joe Bolden (6'3 230) - The EE rose in the rankings dramatically at the end of the year, even claiming a fifth star on some sites. He played a lot in the Spring Game with Demens' injury and was impressive. Should get a lot of PT this year before being a mainstay in the middle of our defense for three years.

    WILL
    SO Desmond Morgan (6'1 220) - Started last year, and should be the main starter again. He's not the best athlete and made several bad reads throughout the year, but he hits hard. He was also the most impressive LB in Spring Ball with the possible exception of Joe Bolden. If he can't be in the right place, there's a good chance he gets beaten out.

    SR Brandin Hawthorne (6'0 220) - Another Spring Game standout, he made several big plays. Could possibly make a move for Morgan's job, as he knows the defense much better.

    FR Joe Bolden could also contend for the starting spot here before moving inside next year.

    Overall, our LBs and DEs are very solid. The LB corps should be a strength of the team next year, with Bolden, Ryan, Gordon, Demens, Hawthorne, and Morgan all being serviceable if not strong players. DEs are also a strong part IMO, as Clark/Beyer and Roh should be great rushers and also strong against the run. The biggest question mark here are the DTs. If Campbell or Pipkins and Black can step up, we should have an excellent defense. Our DBs are strong and the DTs are really the only question mark on our defense.

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    Ducksworth

  • I believe Ash WILL surprise. I just think he's starting to get it. Just a hunch.

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    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Seems like UM is a little light up front at the moment; 270, 270, 320, 225.

    Roh, Clark/Beyer, and Black are going to bulk up more, but we're definitely exchanging size for speed.

    It'll probably end up being 280 - 285/290 - 320 - 235/240

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    Ducksworth

  • LBers

    SLB, Jake Ryan, 6'3" 230lbs, RS Soph. He had a great spring game in 2011 and was getting solid reviews but I don't think anybody expected him to produce what he did in his first year playing for Michigan. He had the most big plays last year for the LBer group. Can play unorthodox at times, but to this point, not to the detriment of the team. His stops vs ND and his 20 something yard tackle for loss vs VT will always stand out to me. Backup will be Cam Gordon. Former Safety that was moved to LBer last year, battled some injuries and issues playing so close to the line but has pushed Ryan for the starting spot according to some. I will believe it when I see it.

    MLB, Kenny Demens, 6'1" 245lbs, RS Senior. He took over for Obi Ezeh in the last half of the 2010, much to the relief of many Michigan fans, and has been solid ever since. He doesn't do anything flashy, but if he gets his hands on you, you are going down. Led the team in tackles last fall. Backups, Joe Bolden, 6'3" 230 lbs, Freshman, High 4* out of Ohio, early enrollee for this spring. He passed Mike Jones for the #2 spot this spring, and I expect him to be a 3 year starter at MLB, if he stays all 4 years.

    WLB, Desmond Morgan, 6'1" 220 lbs, Soph. He had buzz in fall practice last year from the BTN guys and most Michigan fans laughed it off since he was a low 3* recruit that many thought was going to play FB. He took over the starter spot halfway through the season and never let it go. He can lay the lumber, but lacks some of the athleticism that is desired at that position. I would like to say he is a going to be a 4 year starter, but there is a ton of athletic LBers coming in on his heels, we will see if his football IQ keeps them off the field. Backups, Antonio Poole, 6'2" 212lbs, RS Fresh, 4* out of Ohio. He came in on the first team when Morgan tweaked his knee in the spring game. Looks to be undersized, and didn't have any moments that stood out during the spring game. Brandin Hawthorne, 6' 214lbs, RS Senior. Looked solid in the spring game, plugging the hole for a TFL a couple of times, including on a goal line stand, and having an INT. Has battled injuries which has forced him to miss valuable time with the coaches last fall and this spring. After the spring game there are quite a few Michigan fans hoping he over takes Morgan.

    Other true freshmen of note, Kaleb Ringer, 6'1" 225lbs, 3* out of Ohio, early enrollee. Looks the part, better size than I expected. Did ok in the spring game, missed his assignment on Rawls first TD run leading to another early enrollee freshman safety, Jarrod Wilson, having to come up and try to make a play. The other 2 freshmen coming in this fall are James Ross, 6'1" 215lbs, and Royce Jenkins-Stone, 6'2" 225 lbs. Both are highly touted 4* recruits out of Michigan. I would like to see 3 of the 4 freshmen RS this year, we will see how that goes.

    xxmgobluexx

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Seems like UM is a little light up front at the moment; 270, 270, 320, 225.

    Roh should be in the 280's by fall as should Black. They are both on diet that have them consuming 5,000 calories a day. Campbell said he should be down to 305-310, at least that is what I think he said. Beyer will be up to 240 at least.

    I am not sure how accurate the spring roster weight chart was, Roh, Black and Campbell all quoted different weights than what was on the chart.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Due51 said...

    I believe Ash WILL surprise. I just think he's starting to get it. Just a hunch.

    After rewatching the spring game, he looked better than I expected. Hope it wasn't just the #2 line.

    xxmgobluexx

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    After rewatching the spring game, he looked better than I expected. Hope it wasn't just the #2 line.

    Yeah our second team OL is pretty awful, so I'm not sure how much we can look at the backup DL.

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    Ducksworth

  • dustelli said...

    you are right I was typing this during a web conference. Now that i look at it I can see how retarded i must look. I mixed names of simlar type players (st.Jean for claxton and sorenson for oniell) and forgot about Armstrong. I think i should go see the doctor. that's messed up. holy sh!t.

    I still see the starting set as the same, but would have figure Armstrong in the rotation. Landisch will make a name in some fashion this year.

    What's kind of amazing for UW is that I count about 13 guys, conservatively, who I would feel very comfortable with starting at their respective positions if called upon. Lots of quality interchangeable parts, though without any real first round NFL talent types that I can see. D. Gilbert, Kelly, Muldoon, Zagzebski, Kohout, Hemer, Allen, Borland, Taylor, Landisch, Watt, O'Neill, Armstrong.

    Kilgore309

  • Kilgore309 said...

    What's kind of amazing for UW is that I count about 13 guys, conservatively, who I would feel very comfortable with starting at their respective positions if called upon. Lots of quality interchangeable parts, though without any real first round NFL talent types that I can see. D. Gilbert, Kelly, Muldoon, Zagzebski, Kohout, Hemer, Allen, Borland, Taylor, Landisch, Watt, O'Neill, Armstrong.

    yeah and it looks like AJ fenton is running with the one's lately too. hard to tell how the staff ranks every one with all of the guys missing early on.

    dustelli

  • Question for the rest of you guys. What are your thoughts for LB units? Would you rather your staff put the best 3 (or 4 based on system) out there regardless of position? or would you rather them be kept in their position based on how the staff sees them.

    We have never been this deep at LB and it seems like the staff is struggling with that question. If it were up to me (many reasons it never is) I would always put the 3 best players on the field and let them make plays. the best example is Borland. He started on the outside and really caused problems coming off the edges, but they moved him inside last year wanting to capitalize on his leadership and instincts. Because of that we had to rely on a guy like Claxton when we had more viable options inside (if Borland stayed outside). In other words i felt often that our best 3 weren't always on the field.

    dustelli

  • dustelli said...

    Question for the rest of you guys. What are your thoughts for LB units? Would you rather your staff put the best 3 (or 4 based on system) out there regardless of position? or would you rather them be kept in their position based on how the staff sees them.

    We have never been this deep at LB and it seems like the staff is struggling with that question. If it were up to me (many reasons it never is) I would always put the 3 best players on the field and let them make plays. the best example is Borland. He started on the outside and really caused problems coming off the edges, but they moved him inside last year wanting to capitalize on his leadership and instincts. Because of that we had to rely on a guy like Claxton when we had more viable options inside (if Borland stayed outside). In other words i felt often that our best 3 weren't always on the field.

    OLBs are more fungible than ILBs . . . but Greg Jones was a WILL who moved to MIKE.

    Situational basis.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Ducksworth said...

    Yeah our second team OL is pretty awful, so I'm not sure how much we can look at the backup DL.

    Damn, our write ups on the LBers were very similar.

    xxmgobluexx

  • SpartanRocky said...

    OLBs are more fungible than ILBs . . . but Greg Jones was a WILL who moved to MIKE.

    Situational basis.

    Mattison talks about how the Will and Mike are almost interchangable in his 4-3 Under defense. The Sam is a bit different, almost a WDE size wise, with the ability to drop into coverage.

    xxmgobluexx

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Seems like UM is a little light up front at the moment; 270, 270, 320, 225.

    Beyer is a converted LB, he should come into fall camp around 235-240.

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • maize&blue21 said...

    Beyer is a converted LB, he should come into fall camp around 235-240.

    I don't think Beyer played any LB last year, so this would be his 2nd year at WDE.

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    This is Michigan, fergodsakes.

    Never Lose Hoke

  • Never Lose Hoke said...

    I don't think Beyer played any LB last year, so this would be his 2nd year at WDE.

    I thought he started out as a LB and had certain plays where he put his hand in the ground. I could be wrong, but that is what I thought he played. Also he saw very limited time so I could be thinking of someone else.

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • maize&blue21 said...

    I thought he started out as a LB and had certain plays where he put his hand in the ground. I could be wrong, but that is what I thought he played. Also he saw very limited time so I could be thinking of someone else.

    I'm not sure and I am too lazy to check. So I guess it will remain a mystery.

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    This is Michigan, fergodsakes.

    Never Lose Hoke

  • Never Lose Hoke said...

    I don't think Beyer played any LB last year, so this would be his 2nd year at WDE.

    He played LBer last year.

    xxmgobluexx

  • buckeyes strong suit for sure,

    simon, williams, hankins, bennet with washington, schutt, pittman and spence waitin their turn...

    shazier is tearin it up at lb and i hear curtis grant is startin to live up to his hype...

    (pre-emptive strike) yes, its against our o line which is our weakest group but they (o line) will be a decent...

    simon, williams and hankins are all potential B1G first teamers with all american consideration (again, potentially)

    shazier should challenge for B1G first team status...

    a2brutus

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    He played LBer last year.

    I feel like I am always wrong with these things.

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    This is Michigan, fergodsakes.

    Never Lose Hoke

  • a2brutus said...

    buckeyes strong suit for sure,

    simon, williams, hankins, bennet with washington, schutt, pittman and spence waitin their turn...

    shazier is tearin it up at lb and i hear curtis grant is startin to live up to his hype...

    (pre-emptive strike) yes, its against our o line which is our weakest group but they (o line) will be a decent...

    simon, williams and hankins are all potential B1G first teamers with all american consideration (again, potentially)

    shazier should challenge for B1G first team status...

    Agree that OSU's front 7 will be good, but OSU's OL will not be decent. They will most likely be very bad.

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    This is Michigan, fergodsakes.

    Never Lose Hoke

  • Never Lose Hoke said...

    Agree that OSU's front 7 will be good, but OSU's OL will not be decent. They will most likely be very bad.

    nah, not very bad...

    not very good either tho...

    id say middle of B1G, not as good as um, wisc, msu, psu, neb or iowa, but better then nw, ind, ill, pur, minn...

    a2brutus

  • a2brutus said...

    nah, not very bad...

    not very good either tho...

    id say middle of B1G, not as good as um, wisc, msu, psu, neb or iowa, but better then nw, ind, ill, pur, minn...

    OSU lost all their good starters from an already bad OL and replace them with less talented players, OSU's OL group is going to be very bad this year.

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • maize&blue21 said...

    OSU lost all their good starters from an already bad OL and replace them with less talented players, OSU's OL group is going to be very bad this year.

    fragel, hall, mewhort and norwell avg 6 5 300 lbs with decent experience...

    how can u say brewster and mike adams were bad last yr? they will go 1-2nd round this draft...

    the point im trying to make is, yes, compared to what we were used to the last 10-20 yrs our oline has been sub par, but those were some great olines we are comparing them to...

    when compared to avg, run of the mill B1G lines they rank right in the middle...

    now, depth is the big concern...nothin but true frosh. if someone gets hurt

    This post was edited by a2brutus on 4/16/2012 at 9:48 PM

    a2brutus

  • a2brutus said...

    fragel, hall, mewhort and norwell avg 6 5 300 lbs with decent experience...

    how can u say brewster and mike adams were bad last yr? they will go 1-2nd round this draft...

    the point im trying to make is, yes, compared to what we were used to the last 10-20 yrs our oline has been sub par, but those were some great olines we are comparing them to...

    when compared to avg, run of the mill B1G lines they rank right in the middle...

    He said you're losing "good starters from a bad OL", which means that he was calling Brewster and Adams "good starters"

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    Ducksworth