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Big 12 and SEC....

  • Prefer a selection committee to choose the top 4 teams for a playoff. ACC and Big 10 prefer conference champion format. Pac 12 commissioner chimed in yet?

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    MarineMountie

  • MarineMountie said...

    Prefer a selection committee to choose the top 4 teams for a playoff. ACC and Big 10 prefer conference champion format. Pac 12 commissioner chimed in yet?

    Champs. Keep the decisions on the field. No three loss teams are going to win a major conference, and if they do they will get knocked out in first round. Plus, ending the beauty contest leads to more aggressive OOC scheduling.

    Alonzo Harris

  • MarineMountie said...

    Prefer a selection committee to choose the top 4 teams for a playoff. ACC and Big 10 prefer conference champion format. Pac 12 commissioner chimed in yet?

    Hell no to a selection committee.

    Jeff4SC

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    No three loss teams are going to win a major conference, and if they do they will get knocked out in first round.

    The first round? We're talking about four teams.

    ASBamaguy

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Plus, ending the beauty contest leads to more aggressive OOC scheduling.

    How do you figure? If OoC games don't matter ('cause it's all about conference champs) why bother playing tough OoC games? Rest up instead.

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    How do you figure? If OoC games don't matter ('cause it's all about conference champs) why bother playing tough OoC games? Rest up instead.

    Rest up? Big OOC are generally played in the beginning of the season. Battle tested teams >>

    Of course some would still schedule cowardly, but I think more big time OOC games would get scheduled with an early season loss to a top 5 team not dooming your season.

    Alonzo Harris

  • sf2k4 said...

    How do you figure? If OoC games don't matter ('cause it's all about conference champs) why bother playing tough OoC games? Rest up instead.

    Yeah. I don't see how that would lead to more "aggressive OOC scheduling" either.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • ASBamaguy said...

    The first round? We're talking about four teams.

    Fine, semifinal. Is that word choice better for you?

    Alonzo Harris

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Rest up? Big OOC are generally played in the beginning of the season. Battle tested teams >>

    Of course some would still schedule cowardly, but I think more big time OOC games would get scheduled with an early season loss to a top 5 team not dooming your season.

    Most teams play crappy OOC games because A) they need guaranteed home revenue or B) they need that easy game to get to 6-6.

    I don't see how that is going to change with conference champions only.

    Conversely, it would seem that it would behoove teams to schedule more agressive OOC in the committee selection because it will differentiate themselves from the other possible teams.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Fine, semifinal. Is that word choice better for you?

    Yes. We're talking about four teams, not eight or 12 or 16. Four. Why not make them the best four teams?

    ASBamaguy

  • ASBamaguy said...

    Yes. We're talking about four teams, not eight or 12 or 16. Four. Why not make them the best four teams?

    Because you don't know who the best four teams are. Neither do I, nor a panel of experts, until they hit the field.

    BLF: I don't really care about the way those teams struggling to get to 6-6 schedule OOC. If you look at the way today's polls work, a loss is punished MUCH more than a win is rewarded. It doesn't make sense to schedule risky games, and with a selection committee you will see the same ideology.

    Alonzo Harris

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Because you don't know who the best four teams are. Neither do I, nor a panel of experts, until they hit the field.

    BLF: I don't really care about the way those teams struggling to get to 6-6 schedule OOC. If you look at the way today's polls work, a loss is punished MUCH more than a win is rewarded. It doesn't make sense to schedule risky games, and with a selection committee you will see the same ideology.

    There is ZERO incentive to schedule an aggressive non-conference game if it is champions only.

    I would see no reason that any team wouldn't schedule 3-4 home games to generate revenue and warm-up for conference play.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Because you don't know who the best four teams are. Neither do I, nor a panel of experts, until they hit the field.

    Well, I'm not suggesting deciding who the four best teams are before they've played an entire season. At the end of 12 or 13 games, I think most people would have a pretty good idea who the best teams were based on body of work, whether that included a conference championship or not.

    Last year, for instance, how close was Michigan State to winning the Big Ten? Very. And nothing against Michigan State, they had a good, solid team. But was that a team worthy of belonging in a four-team playoff at 11-2 with blowout losses to Notre Dame and Nebraska? I can't imagine preferring a system that puts that team in the playoff over a team like Stanford or Alabama, which lost one game each -- and very close games -- to top 6-7 teams.

    ASBamaguy

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    There is ZERO incentive to schedule an aggressive non-conference game if it is champions only.

    I would see no reason that any team wouldn't schedule 3-4 home games to generate revenue and warm-up for conference play.

    Every one of his points are things that a Top Four would cause to happen. If the tourney is going to only four teams I think you have to go with the the 4 highest ranked teams. This would cause for more competitive OOC games because teams like a "Indiana" would have to play a tough one to hold up against a weak "Bama" one. This would also cause a "Bama" to play a tougher one to make sure that those "Indiana's" don't take their spot. This 4 team playoff may start to kill off small schools in football.

    Sp4rt4ns

  • ASBamaguy said...

    Well, I'm not suggesting deciding who the four best teams are before they've played an entire season. At the end of 12 or 13 games, I think most people would have a pretty good idea who the best teams were based on body of work, whether that included a conference championship or not.

    Last year, for instance, how close was Michigan State to winning the Big Ten? Very. And nothing against Michigan State, they had a good, solid team. But was that a team worthy of belonging in a four-team playoff at 11-2 with blowout losses to Notre Dame and Nebraska? I can't imagine preferring a system that puts that team in the playoff over a team like Stanford or Alabama, which lost one game each -- and very close games -- to top 6-7 teams.

    Clearly last year the only conference champs that were worthy were Wisconsin and LSU. I'm not a fan of conference champs, but I'm also not a fan of a selection committee for only four teams.

    Sp4rt4ns

  • Sp4rt4ns said...

    Every one of his points are things that a Top Four would cause to happen. If the tourney is going to only four teams I think you have to go with the the 4 highest ranked teams. This would cause for more competitive OOC games because teams like a "Indiana" would have to play a tough one to hold up against a weak "Bama" one. This would also cause a "Bama" to play a tougher one to make sure that those "Indiana's" don't take their spot. This 4 team playoff may start to kill off small schools in football.

    Hold on. So how we dont want a subjective method to determine the top four teams, but it's ok to have a subjective method to determine the ranking of the four champions?

    That's what I got from this post.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • ASBamaguy said...

    Well, I'm not suggesting deciding who the four best teams are before they've played an entire season. At the end of 12 or 13 games, I think most people would have a pretty good idea who the best teams were based on body of work, whether that included a conference championship or not.

    Last year, for instance, how close was Michigan State to winning the Big Ten? Very. And nothing against Michigan State, they had a good, solid team. But was that a team worthy of belonging in a four-team playoff at 11-2 with blowout losses to Notre Dame and Nebraska? I can't imagine preferring a system that puts that team in the playoff over a team like Stanford or Alabama, which lost one game each -- and very close games -- to top 6-7 teams.

    Cherry picking seasons like that doesn't work. That was a rare down year in the B1G, and it takes a what if for that scenario to come true, as a solid Wisky team eon the big. Stanford and bama had their shots to win their conferences.

    How about we rewind to 2008 when a second place SEC Bama team that got their doors blown off by Utah in the sugar bowl would've gotten in over much better Utah and USC teams who had the same record, and were conference champions. I would hate to see that happen.

    See how it goes both ways? It's very rare that you will find a champion of one of the big conferences on the level of 2011 Michigan State.

    Alonzo Harris

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Cherry picking seasons like that doesn't work. That was a rare down year in the B1G, and it takes a what if for that scenario to come true, as a solid Wisky team eon the big. Stanford and bama had their shots to win their conferences.

    How about we rewind to 2008 when a second place SEC Bama team that got their doors blown off by Utah in the sugar bowl would've gotten in over much better Utah and USC teams who had the same record, and were conference champions. I would hate to see that happen.

    See how it goes both ways? It's very rare that you will find a champion of one of the big conferences on the level of 2011 Michigan State.

    You can't assume that Alabama would have been chose as the fourth team in a committee selection (nor Texas for that matter either) and you can't assume that USC wouldn't have been taken.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    You can't assume that Alabama would have been chose as the fourth team in a committee selection (nor Texas for that matter either) and you can't assume that USC wouldn't have been taken.

    They were 4th in the polls. Why would have it been different? A selection committee is just a mini poll.

    Alonzo Harris

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    They were 4th in the polls. Why would have it been different? A selection committee is just a mini poll.

    But they wouldn't necessarily come to the same conclusion given that they may or may not weight certain factors equally to the BCS system.

    I think if there is a selection committee it would have winning your conference weigh substantially in addition to other factors.

    IMO, a SC would have chosen OU,UF,UT,and USC in 2008.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Also, isn't this all about finding a NATIONAL champion? How can you be a champion of the nation if you can't be the champion of a region?

    Alonzo Harris

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Also, isn't this all about finding a NATIONAL champion? How can you be a champion of the nation if you can't be the champion of a region?

    Because in a given year, the second best team in a conference can possibly be one of the four best teams in the country (2011 Alabama,2008 Texas, 2009 Florida, 2006 Michigan, 2004 Texas,2001 Colorado).

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Because in a given year, the second best team in a conference can possibly be one of the four best teams in the country (2011 Alabama,2008 Texas, 2009 Florida, 2006 Michigan, 2004 Texas,2001 Colorado).

    Thats fine, but if the whole thing is about crowning a national champion, the team that won their conference is going to rightfully play for all of the marbles and prove on the field how strong that conference was. If not, there is a clear lack of representation, and the inclusion of more subjectivity. I personally don't care who ends up ranked #2 at the end if the season, only who is national champion. If we get beaten by Oregon who wins the conference and goes to the title game but we look like a top four team, so what we had our shot.

    I know that right now any USC team, no matter how strong they are, has to go undefeated to get a shot at the title. They still might not get in if B1G, BIG 12, or SEC teams are also undefeated. If its only top four, it will remain the same.

    (BTW 06 Michigan got rolled in the Rose Bowl, 04 Texas lost to OU but was better?)

    This post was edited by Alonzo Harris on 5/31/2012 at 3:55 AM

    Alonzo Harris

  • Sp4rt4ns said...

    Clearly last year the only conference champs that were worthy were Wisconsin and LSU. I'm not a fan of conference champs, but I'm also not a fan of a selection committee for only four teams.

    And both teams lost so.......

    hillbillyzombie

  • So how does the champ scenario work out?

    SEC vs ACC
    Big12 vs B1G

    ???

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    Face Stabber