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Can we come up with a comparable list of government programs

  • CMXI said...

    The whole "They've had X years to get it right" rhetoric is a gross mischaracterization.

    Well, yeah. But it doesn't sound good any other way.

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    DrStache

  • Status said...

    They worked well until the liberals starting forcing their awful progressive policies onto them. No surprise they went downhill.

    Tell me, are there unicorns in this little fantasy-land you've created for yourself? lol

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    CMXI

  • Tidepride30 said...

    Well, yeah. But it doesn't sound good any other way.

    Try this: "These government programs worked successfully for a long time, but haven't adapted due to political obstructionism, a refusal to acknowledge changing circumstances, and general bureaucracy. If people compromise and work together, we can come up with modern solutions and either fix/create new programs to address modern issues."

    It's just wildly disingenuous to imply that all of these programs have just been consistent failures from Day 1.

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    CMXI

  • 75% of the people that use food stamps work full time jobs.

    We are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

    OmegaBuckeye

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    75% of the people that use food stamps work full time jobs.

    Shhhh, you're messing with the narrative! All people who receive government aid are lazy, poor, worthless leeches! Get it right!

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    CMXI

  • I will give the USPS 2 thumbs up. 45cents to send a letter is a bargain and it usually gets there in a timely manner. Problem is most govt programs are so inefficiently run that even the good ones fail.

    Go bucky go

  • Go bucky go said...

    I will give the USPS 2 thumbs up. 45cents to send a letter is a bargain and it usually gets there in a timely manner. Problem is most govt programs are so inefficiently run that even the good ones fail.

    Seriously. Businesses would riot if the USPS disappeared and we had to pay FedEx/UPS rates for basic letters.

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    CMXI

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    75% of the people that use food stamps work full time jobs.

    They should get double IMO.

    Go bucky go

  • Tidepride30 said...

    That have had success??

    THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE was established in 1775 – they’ve had 234 years to get it right; it is broke, and even though heavily subsidized, it can’t compete with private sector FedEx and UPS services.

    SOCIAL SECURITY was established in 1935 – they’ve had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

    FANNIE MAE was established in 1938 – they’ve had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

    FREDDIE MAC was established in 1970 – they’ve had 39 years to get it right; it is broke. Together Fannie and Freddie have now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.

    THE WAR ON POVERTY was started in 1964 – they’ve had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our hard earned money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor”; it hasn’t worked.

    MEDICARE and MEDICAID were established in 1965 – they’ve had 44 years to get it right; they are both broke; and now our government dares to mention them as models for all US health care.

    AMTRAK was established in 1970 – they’ve had 39 years to get it right; last year they bailed it out as it continues to run at a loss!

    WAR ON DRUGS started over four decades ago. Failed.

    This year, a trillion dollars was committed in the massive political payoff called the Stimulus Bill of 2009; it shows NO sign of working; it’s been used to increase the size of governments across America, and raise government salaries while the rest of us suffer from economic hardships.

    CASH FOR CLUNKERS was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009 – after 80% of the cars purchased turned out to be produced by foreign companies and dealers nationwide are buried under bureaucratic paperwork demanded by a government that is not yet paying them what was promised.

    NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND: $54.4 billion per year. America ranks 17th in education compared to other modern countries.

    DEPT. OF ENERGY: $26.4 billion budget. Gas prices at all time high!

    FAIR HOUSING ACT: The Feds forced the Banks to issue Subprime Mortgages to minorities with bad credit. Major cause of current recession. 841,073 foreclosures in 2012.

    FEDERAL RESERVE BANK: Broke! There is no “reserve” just printed paper money with no backing.

    Alot of your examples are based on preconceived political opinions and not the facts.

    USPS - isnt "heavily subsidized" most of their money came from 1st Class Mail (Internet and PDF files have hurt that revenue stream) An unsustainable pension system enforced by, ironically, a Republican congress is also hurting them.

    Social Security (can be fixed by adjusting the payouts or moving the eligibility age up.)

    Fannie Mae and Freddie, are just one of the dozens of variables that led to the collapse. Fannie and Freddie didn't create an unregulated market to sell Credit Default Swaps and Options.

    Obviously Medicare and Medicaid are in trouble, but setting up State-Insurance exchanges to purchase private insurance isn't a model similar to Medicare.

    AMTRAK - you got one right.

    War on Drugs - you got that right

    Stimilus bills havent been as productive as they are in theory, but I don't think you have analyzed any econometric data that can confirm they show "no sign of working"

    Cash For Clunkers - even "American cars" are mostly produced in Mexico and other countries, not sure that was designed to be a "buy American policy"

    No Child Left Behind - you got another right.

    Fair Housing Act - not sure how a law passed in 1968 had any role in the 2007 crisis. Financial markets are completely different animals these days. A mixture of over and under regulation created the financial crisis.

    Federal Reserve - don't need a "reserve with backing" when you have a fiat currency. So not sure what you mean there. They played a role in the Financial crisis though.

    rms02d

  • Word on some of those. They failed hard.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • I think NASA had a pretty good run of things as well. Man on the moon, lots of inventions that worked into daily lives, etc... FDA is nice to have as well. After all, I like not having to wonder if the steak I am buying at the supermarket is safe to eat or not. I can just take it for granted that it is. The whole clean water to drink thing is kind of nice too. Thank you EPA.

    We are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

    OmegaBuckeye

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    I think NASA had a pretty good run of things as well. Man on the moon, lots of inventions that worked into daily lives, etc... FDA is nice to have as well. After all, I like not having to wonder if the steak I am buying at the supermarket is safe to eat or not. I can just take it for granted that it is. The whole clean water to drink thing is kind of nice too. Thank you EPA.

    EPA allows the widespread use of fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides that European Environmental Advisories consider poison.

    fsufsu

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    I think NASA had a pretty good run of things as well. Man on the moon, lots of inventions that worked into daily lives, etc... FDA is nice to have as well. After all, I like not having to wonder if the steak I am buying at the supermarket is safe to eat or not. I can just take it for granted that it is. The whole clean water to drink thing is kind of nice too. Thank you EPA.

    I'm not getting into this argument, and I'm not bashing NASA, but I really have a hard time putting a value on Neil's walk on the moon.

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    TheT12

  • CMXI said...

    Tell me, are there unicorns in this little fantasy-land you've created for yourself? lol

    That guy is seriously a crazy person lol

    UMWolverines

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Age extension, means testing, raise in FICA.

    So we are going to raise your taxes and if you manage not to die before you are almost 70 you will get some of the money back, assuming of course you were never successful in life.

    I agree these things need to be done to save SS, but it kinda gets to the point of, what are we "saving" here? A program in which we take money from people their whole lives of which they will only receive a portion back and for many this will be for maybe the last 5-10 years of life if that? What the hell is the point?

    Also Democrats have been claiming for years that SSI is in fact Insurance, if means testing comes into effect it becomes nothing more than another entitlement program.

    TroyTide

  • TroyTide said...

    So we are going to raise your taxes and if you manage not to die before you are almost 70 you will get some of the money back, assuming of course you were never successful in life.

    I agree these things need to be done to save SS, but it kinda gets to the point of, what are we "saving" here? A program in which we take money from people their whole lives of which they will only receive a portion back and for many this will be for maybe the last 5-10 years of life if that? What the hell is the point?

    Also Democrats have been claiming for years that SSI is in fact Insurance, if means testing comes into effect it becomes nothing more than another entitlement program.

    Boom

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    DrStache

  • fsufsu said...

    EPA allows the widespread use of fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides that European Environmental Advisories consider poison.

    Agree here. The Europeans do a much better job at keeping food safe and clean and healthy... horse meat scandal aside, lol.

    The fact that it is actually a chore to find healthy food, particularly at restaurants, in the US is pathetic.

    That fact that fast food can sell hamburgers that have very little true beef in them is ridiculous too.

    We need to get more serious about food regulations. Fake food being sold as the real thing should be illegal.

    TroyTide

  • TroyTide said...

    So we are going to raise your taxes and if you manage not to die before you are almost 70 you will get some of the money back, assuming of course you were never successful in life.

    I agree these things need to be done to save SS, but it kinda gets to the point of, what are we "saving" here? A program in which we take money from people their whole lives of which they will only receive a portion back and for many this will be for maybe the last 5-10 years of life if that? What the hell is the point?

    Also Democrats have been claiming for years that SSI is in fact Insurance, if means testing comes into effect it becomes nothing more than another entitlement program.

    These are rough numbers but 45 years of averaging $50,000 a year at 6.2% gives you $139,500 in contributions or $13,950 a year for ten years (65 to 75). Max benefit this year is $2513/m or ~$30k a year. So....not sure what you are talking about? shrug

    Edit: I'm a dumbass. I forgot the 6.2% withheld is for both SS and Med.

    That said. A basis point or two isn't going to move those numbers much either way. It wouldn't be permanent. It's just to get us past the generational dilemma anyways.

    Edit part deux: 6.2% is for SS. Ignore last edit.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by BamaLivesFootba on 3/5/2013 at 6:51 PM

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    These are rough numbers but 45 years of averaging $50,000 a year at 6.2% gives you $139,500 in contributions or $13,950 a year for ten years (65 to 75). Max benefit this year is $2513/m or ~$30k a year. So....not sure what you are talking about? shrug

    Edit: I'm a dumbass. I forgot the 6.2% withheld is for both SS and Med.

    That said. A basis point or two isn't going to move those numbers much either way. It wouldn't be permanent. It's just to get us past the generational dilemma anyways.

    I am not so sure that it wouldn't be permanent, once this becomes the new way of doing things and people get used to it, once the baby boomers are gone the government is likely to take any future surpluses, this time not in the shadow of massive long term liabilities, and use them elsewhere. The temptation to keep the money piling up for the feds will be too great IMO.

    You still have to outlive both the age requirement and your contribution before you get more than you paid in. It's all pretty macabre, it's the government relying and hoping that x number of people kick the bucket in order to keep what amounts to a ponzi scheme afloat.

    If it is truly Insurance it should be optional. The existing pay in-pay out system can be left in effect for those that want and others should be able to take their money elsewhere if they can stomach the risk.

    TroyTide

  • TroyTide said...

    I am not so sure that it wouldn't be permanent, once this becomes the new way of doing things and people get used to it, once the baby boomers are gone the government is likely to take any future surpluses, this time not in the shadow of massive long term liabilities, and use them elsewhere. The temptation to keep the money piling up for the feds will be too great IMO.

    You still have to outlive both the age requirement and your contribution before you get more than you paid in. It's all pretty macabre, it's the government relying and hoping that x number of people kick the bucket in order to keep what amounts to a ponzi scheme afloat.

    If it is truly Insurance it should be optional. The existing pay in-pay out system can be left in effect for those that want and others should be able to take their money elsewhere if they can stomach the risk.

    ...

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • The USPS isn't government ran anymore... And aren't they tied still to government salary requirements but don't receive taxes?

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    sf2k4

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    ...

    ???

    TroyTide

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    The only reason USPS is broke is because of a stupid law that makes them prefund all retirement benefits for its employees.

    Shouldn't have the benefits in first place, pensions suck the life out of corporations

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    RagingBull05

  • TheT12 said...

    I'm not getting into this argument, and I'm not bashing NASA, but I really have a hard time putting a value on Neil's walk on the moon.

    Probably typing this on your I-phone while searching for the nearest Gas Station via the Global Positioning Network

    Many of the benefits from NASA and the US military aren't that tangible, but there are benefits.

    This post was edited by rms02d on 3/5/2013 at 7:30 PM

    rms02d

  • RagingBull05 said...

    Shouldn't have the benefits in first place, pensions suck the life out of corporations

    That's cool and all, but that doesn't change the fact that the law is fvking retarded.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba