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Congress passes Individual Mandate---In 1798

  • Discuss.

    Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 - Forbes

    Image via Wikipedia The ink was barely dry on the PPACA when the first of many lawsuits to block the mandated health insurance provisions of the law was filed in a Florida District Court. The pleadings, in part, read - The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly [...]

    www.forbes.com
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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • buttesnake

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Discuss.

    Sounds like it went over perfectly. Lets do it again.

    Pink Sock

  • LOL, wut? That's not even close to being the same thing. That law created a health care provider service for Sailors. To work as a Sailor, they were required to pay a premium for the services. No-one was taxed for not purchase a premium...they were simply not allowed to work as a sailor. If they didn't want to purchase the insurance, they could just find another profession. That is somewhat closer to auto insurance(to drive, you must have insurance) although it still isn't the same.

    The mandate that under scrutiny today doesn't create a service but requires US Citizens to purchase insurance from private providers. The author is correct...1% of wages won't cut it today which is the real issue. Mandating people to purchase unaffordable insurance makes zero sense. Taxing people who don't purchase it is equally ridiculous.

    bamabum5

  • bamabum5 said...

    LOL, wut? That's not even close to being the same thing. That law created a health care provider service for Sailors. To work as a Sailor, they were required to pay a premium for the services. No-one was taxed for not purchase a premium...they were simply not allowed to work as a sailor. If they didn't want to purchase the insurance, they could just find another profession. That is somewhat closer to auto insurance(to drive, you must have insurance) although it still isn't the same.

    The mandate that under scrutiny today doesn't create a service but requires US Citizens to purchase insurance from private providers. The author is correct...1% of wages won't cut it today which is the real issue. Mandating people to purchase unaffordable insurance makes zero sense. Taxing people who don't purchase it is equally ridiculous.

    This mandate was reasoned upon the same argument the Solicitor General made in the SCOTUS hearings just the other day.

    This post was edited by BamaLivesFootba on 3/30/2012 at 6:34 PM

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    This mandate was reasoned upon the same argument the Solicitor General made in the SCOTUS hearings just the other day.

    Why haven't you done what I so politely asked you to do earlier?

    bvg153555

  • [bvg] said...

    Why haven't you done what I so politely asked you to do earlier?

    Because you're a censored censored censored for even saying such a thing.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    This mandate was reasoned upon the same argument the Solicitor General made in the SCOTUS hearings just the other day.

    The two laws couldn't be more different. They aren't even in the same ballpark. It really doesn't matter the argument when one is a clear violation of the Constitution and the other is not.

    bamabum5

  • bamabum5 said...

    The two laws couldn't be more different. They aren't even in the same ballpark. It really doesn't matter the argument when one is a clear violation of the Constitution and the other is not.

    Its called precedent. The two biggest set by the originial in 1798 being their constitutional reasoning behind it---the large effect on the economy the maritime industry had and the need for the sailors to be healthy---and the mandating of services(whether by taxes or not)for healthcare coverage of private employees.

    To be honest,it's more helpful for single-payer than it is for the PPIACA.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by BamaLivesFootba on 3/30/2012 at 6:50 PM

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Has Obama ripped up the constitution yet? Lots of rumors that's his main goal.

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    mriderblue16

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Its called precedent. The two biggest set by the originial in 1798 being their constitutional reasoning behind it---the large effect on the economy the maritime industry had and the need for the sailors to be healthy---and the mandating of services(whether by taxes or not)for healthcare coverage of private employees.

    To be honest,it's more helpful for single-payer than it is for the PPIACA.

    You get it to an extent. If the Govt formed a healthcare service and mandated all people enroll, you might have somewhat of a precedent. The 1798 law established that all Sailors be enrolled in the Govt run healthcare service and to fund it, they paid 1% of the wages. The Govt controlled the cost of the service. Those that didn't enroll were simply not allowed to be Sailors. There was no fine. There was simply the stipulation that those engaged in the Sailor industry needed to be enrolled in the system. Somewhat like auto insurance. I don't have to carry auto insurance...I'm just not allows to drive if I don't have it.

    The Obamacare law says all Americans have to purchase private insurance without establishment of a price ceiling. Those who don't purchase private insurance will be fined by the Govt for not purchasing a private industry health insurance policy. Basically, that is like the Federal Govt telling people with no car they have to buy auto insurance.

    Where do we draw the line regarding Govt mandated private purchases? If they think it helps the economy, do they have full reign to tell us how to spend our money?

    bamabum5

  • bamabum5 said...

    You get it to an extent. If the Govt formed a healthcare service and mandated all people enroll, you might have somewhat of a precedent. The 1798 law established that all Sailors be enrolled in the Govt run healthcare service and to fund it, they paid 1% of the wages. The Govt controlled the cost of the service. Those that didn't enroll were simply not allowed to be Sailors. There was no fine. There was simply the stipulation that those engaged in the Sailor industry needed to be enrolled in the system. Somewhat like auto insurance. I don't have to carry auto insurance...I'm just not allows to drive if I don't have it.

    The Obamacare law says all Americans have to purchase private insurance without establishment of a price ceiling. Those who don't purchase private insurance will be fined by the Govt for not purchasing a private industry health insurance policy. Basically, that is like the Federal Govt telling people with no car they have to buy auto insurance.

    Where do we draw the line regarding Govt mandated private purchases? If they think it helps the economy, do they have full reign to tell us how to spend our money?

    That is a terrible analogy. Everyone needs healthcare.

    The line is drawn with health insurance because it falls under the extent of precedent of the Commerce Clause. It is only about health insurance. It is the medium. That is why the broccoli analogy is so absurd.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    That is a terrible analogy. Everyone needs healthcare.

    The line is drawn with health insurance because it falls under the extent of precedent of the Commerce Clause. It is only about health insurance. It is the medium. That is why the broccoli analogy is so absurd.

    It's not about what you think everyone needs. I know people that think everyone needs exercise and a healthy diet. I know people that think alcohol use should be illegal. I know people that think people shouldn't be allowed to have more than 2 children. It isn't what you think people need. The real tragedy here is the fact that nothing in the law helps lower costs so we are forcing lower income individuals who don't hold jobs that come with healthcare plans to purchase policies on their own. I don't even care because I'm in the military and my family is covered but the law is pure crap.

    You can attempt to make anything fit under the commerce law as it is vague and ambiguous. You say it is only about healthcare but it is about the law and once we force Americans to purchase private policies, it sets the precedent. This isn't just about healthcare which is the point.

    bamabum5

  • Witches burned at stake in 1700.

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    DrStach_

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    That is a terrible analogy. Everyone needs healthcare.

    The line is drawn with health insurance because it falls under the extent of precedent of the Commerce Clause. It is only about health insurance. It is the medium. That is why the broccoli analogy is so absurd.

    Dude. Give it up. This isn't true. You keep stating it as fact, but it is not. Do you really even know what you're saying when you make these statements or are you just reciting something you read on some freedom-hating liberal blog?

    This post was edited by Pink Sock on 3/31/2012 at 8:33 AM

    Pink Sock

  • rms02d said...

    This guy has a masters degee in economics and he is a Nobel Laureate.

    You can't argue with him.

    He probably has a PHD in history also.

    You can if you choose to but you will lose. I mean, you specifically. You're not very bright.

    Pink Sock

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Discuss.

    False equality...they are clearly not the same thing.

    www.neoavatara.com/blog

    neoavatara

  • This is not the same thing. If I chose not to be a sailor now I would still be mandated to carry health insurance.

    shaunsimpson

  • Not sure why anybody even tries anymore. No one ever agrees with him and he can never convince anyone to agree with him because it's usually forced false logic along an ideological line.

    Just move along and ignore the threads

    PTCcock195

  • This thread just solved all my issues.

    Thanks!

    Seriously though, the two don't really have a lot to do with eachother.

    Healthcare is just like any political platform in this country. 40% of the people will be for it if "their guy" came up with it. 40% will be against it if "their guy" didn't. The 20% that actually know what the hell is somewhat going on will decide our path, much like any National election.

    BetterOff

  • BetterOff said...

    This thread just solved all my issues.

    Thanks!

    Seriously though, the two don't really have a lot to do with eachother.

    Healthcare is just like any political platform in this country. 40% of the people will be for it if "their guy" came up with it. 40% will be against it if "their guy" didn't. The 20% that actually know what the hell is somewhat going on will decide our path, much like any National election.

    Yeah, 95% of Americans already have health coverage, so I really don't think it matters who came up with the idea to overhaul the entire healthcare industry for the 5% that don't. It is completely absurd.

    VTSmitty

  • bamabum5 said...

    You get it to an extent. If the Govt formed a healthcare service and mandated all people enroll, you might have somewhat of a precedent. The 1798 law established that all Sailors be enrolled in the Govt run healthcare service and to fund it, they paid 1% of the wages. The Govt controlled the cost of the service. Those that didn't enroll were simply not allowed to be Sailors. There was no fine. There was simply the stipulation that those engaged in the Sailor industry needed to be enrolled in the system. Somewhat like auto insurance. I don't have to carry auto insurance...I'm just not allows to drive if I don't have it.

    The Obamacare law says all Americans have to purchase private insurance without establishment of a price ceiling. Those who don't purchase private insurance will be fined by the Govt for not purchasing a private industry health insurance policy. Basically, that is like the Federal Govt telling people with no car they have to buy auto insurance.

    Where do we draw the line regarding Govt mandated private purchases? If they think it helps the economy, do they have full reign to tell us how to spend our money?

    or its like telling a woman what she can and can't do with her own body

    topmanv