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Advocates of Evolution

  • Its relation to Christianity? Catholicism is wholly subsumed in Christianity - it's a Christian denomination. How do you characterize the relationship between Catholicism and Christianity?

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  • Dear young-Earthers in this thread:

    You are not being debated with. Your position is not worthy of debate, nor is it worthy of respect. You are being ogled at, like the last living specimen of an endangered species pacing its zoo exhibit, waiting to die. There is so much overwhelming evidence that the Earth is not only more than 6000 years old, but billions of years old, that any opinion to the contrary is the result of willful ignorance, a tremendous lack of education, devastating stupidity, or some combination of the three. Belief in science is not incompatible with belief in God. Even deeply religious biblical scholars understand that the Bible was written by men, in a pre-scientific era, and cannot possibly be literally accurate. Disbelief in science is incompatible with reality. Period.

  • Of course they don't - religious faith all but explicitly requires the absence of evidence.

    The point is that it's nonsensical and hypocritical to criticize evolution because it doesn't have ALL the evidence while smugly endorsing a belief structure that has no evidence whatsoever for its core tenets.

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  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    Wikipedia bro i can write I'm god on that site..

  • Do you just skip over the 154 academic sources at the bottom of the page?

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  • This thread was never intended to be about someone's belief in god, if god exists, a closer examination on why people believe in god, religion, etc. Faith in the unknowable, GOD, shouldn't even be debated ITT.

    This thread is about the faith in things that are 100% contrary to what is absolutely knowable. And in this sense, you are being willfully ignorant. Reality conflicts with your personal beliefs, so you'll jump through any rationalization hoop, no matter how illogical and silly.

    If Jesus H Christ materialized in front of you today and said, "Dude, you're being retarded. Evolution is real. Noah's Ark is just an allegory. Large swaths of the Bible was written by men with agendas contrary to my own- Oh and before I forget, my dad wanted me to tell you that he didn't give you any job. Just don't be a dick to people and you're cool. Here, have some wine- don't worry it's not really my blood..." You'd probably try and drive a stake through his heart.

    Why? Because you are egotistical. You are human. You want to believe you are special. That your life has purpose. That your faith, your personal beliefs, are truer than billions of others.

    Anyway, you're really starting to piss me off. I assured Lucifer that I would break you by sundown today. Get with the program.

  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    So I'm suppose to belive that a freaking mammal with claws completely changed from a mammal to a dolphin. the odds of that are 1 out 1000000000000000000000000000000000000

  • http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

    Are you seriously criticizing Wikipedia for having an error rate and simultaneously propping up a book that can't go 4 sentences without contradicting itself, has no citations, no backing, and was also authored just as anonymously?

  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    When i was in college if i put wiki as my source my teacher would laugh me out of the building, you can't be serious?

    This post was edited by jmsmooth33 14 months ago

  • Boy, I'd love to hear how you came up with that odds calculation. I'm sure it wasn't at all a product of hyperbole and a lack of actual knowledge, no sir. Seems completely legit to me.

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  • Very well said!

    The most upsetting thing is that the guy claims to understand what a scientific theory is, is aware that a scientific theory requires evidence, knows and has said in this thread that evolution is a theory, then reverts back to creationist nonsense.

    I have no idea the mental gymnastics required to do that.

  • Most professors will accept Wiki as a source now, but recommend that you simply use the sources wikipedia provides at the bottom of the page instead.

    And there are 154 academic sources on that page. You can click them if you want.

  • Also, isn't the irony that a dude questions wikipedia because it's authored anonymously, then cites the bible just mind-numbing enough to make you want to gauge your eyes out with an ice pick?

  • Cognitive dissonance is an amazing thing.

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  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    Well for one the mammal has to change from claws to tails and fins, it has to change it's entire body structure, also it has to change it's entire metabolism, it has to develop sonar. Basically impossible..

  • I literally just linked you to an article that discusses all of this. Read it.

  • You're either trolling, stupid, or very uneducated. None of those things are impossible when they take place over millions of years. We know a ton about how cetaceans evolved and we have many complete skeletons of species that have clawed fins. The sheer variety in species of whales/dolphins/porpoises would not fit, two by two, on Noah's ark, the dimensions of which are specifically enumerated in the Bible. Never mind all the other animals. On the face of the Earth.

  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    That's always excuse nothing is impossible when they take place over a milion years, I saw taht dolphins originated from a small deer-like creature. I just pissed myself laughing that might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard..

  • It's clear from your responses you have no interest in learning anything and have nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

    So I'm not going to respond. When you want to actually have a civil debate, you can let us know.

  • If you can hear your own voice you've heard thousands of dumber things.

  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    Bro don't remember me saying anything about Noah's arc but you prob can't read well. The theory that each animal has specific traits that it needs to have in order to survive w/o a creator is astronomical. Do you know that Koala bears don't need water to survive?

  • P.S., do you understand that these ancient creatures are not fictional? They're not theories (a word I hesitate to use because people in this thread are stupid enough to not know what that word means and self-deluded enough to believe they do, a dangerous combination). We have their skeletons. They lived. These skeletons were not placed in the ground by God to trick us.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakicetids

  • Of course they need water to survive! They just happen to get their water from the trees they eat. They're also not bears. They're evolutionarily distinct from bears. They are marsupials.

    Don't talk to me about astronomical odds. You have no idea what you're talking about.

  • 247Sports

    jmsmooth33

    YOu guys get trolled so ez its not even fun anymore, idk y you guys get soo butthurt over evolution talk but its great..

  • GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures). They eat of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life." (Note: God could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

    GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

    GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

    GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

    GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

    GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."

    EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.

    EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
    to show that he is Lord;
    to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
    to show his great power;
    to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
    to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
    to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

    EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

    EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

    EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

    EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

    EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

    EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

    LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

    LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

    LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

    LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

    NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

    NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

    NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.

    NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

    NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

    NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

    NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

    NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

    NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

    NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

    NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

    NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

    NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

    NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

    NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

    DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

    DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

    DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

    DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

    DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

    DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

    DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."

    JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

    JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

    JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

    JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

    JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

    JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

    JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

    JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

    JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

    JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

    JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

    JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

    JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

    JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

    JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

    JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

    JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

    JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

    JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

    JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

    JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

    JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

    JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

    JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

    JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

    JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

    JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

    JG 9:53-54 "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died."

    JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

    JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

    JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

    JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

    JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

    JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

    JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

    JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

    JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

    1SA 4:10 The Philistines slay 30,000 Israelite foot soldiers.

    1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

    1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

    1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

    1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

    1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

    1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

    1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

    1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

    1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

    1SA 27:8-11 "David left neither man nor woman alive ....". (Note: This implies that children and infants were included in the slaughter.)

    1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

    2SA 2:23 Abner kills Asahel.

    2SA 3:30 Joab and Abishai kill Abner.

    2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David.

    2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

    2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

    2SA 6:2-23 Because she rebuked him for having exposed himself, Michal (David's wife) was barren throughout her life.

    2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

    2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

    2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

    2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

    2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

    2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

    2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

    2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

    2SA 13:1-15 Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her.

    2SA 13:28-29 Absalom has Amnon murdered.

    2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

    2SA 18:15 Joab's men murder Absalom.

    2SA 20:10-12 Joab's men murder Amasa and leave him "... wallowing in his own blood in the highway. And anyone who came by, seeing him, stopped."

    2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

    1KI 2:24-25 Solomon has Adonijah murdered.

    1KI 2:29-34 Solomon has Joab murdered.

    1KI 2:46 Solomon has Shime-i murdered.

    1KI 13:15-24 A man is killed by a lion for eating bread and drinking water in a place where the Lord had previously told him not to. This is in spite of the fact that the man had subsequently been lied to by a prophet who told the man that an angel of the Lord said that it would be alright to eat and drink there.

    1KI 20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

    2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

    2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

    2KI 5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

    2KI 6:18-19 The Lord answers Elisha's prayer and strikes the Syrians with blindness. Elisha tricks the blind Syrians and leads them to Samaria.

    2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

    2KI 9:24 Jehu tricks and murders Joram.

    2KI 9:27 Jehu has Ahaziah killed.

    2KI 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

    2KI 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

    2KI 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

    2KI 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

    2KI 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

    2KI 11:1 Athaliah destroys all the royal family.

    2KI 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

    2KI 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

    2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

    2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

    1CH 20:3 (KJV) "And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes."

    2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

    2CH 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

    PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

    PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

    IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

    IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

    IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

    IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

    JE 16:4 "They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth."

    LA 4:9-10 "Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. ... pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food ..."

    EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

    EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

    EZ 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

    EZ 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

    EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

    EZ 23:34 "You shall ... pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts."

    HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

    MI 3:2-3 "... who pluck off their skin ..., and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron."

    MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    MT 10:21 "... the brother shall deliver up his brother to death, and the father his child, ... children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

    MT 10:35-36 "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man's enemies will be the members of his own family."

    MT 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

    AC 13:11 Paul purposefully blinds a man (though not permanently).

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