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The Roundtable moves on; this week is the receiver and tight end group.
Here are the links to the previous weeks' roundtable in case anyone wants to read through it.
Week #1 - QB Discussion: http://247sports.com/Board/30/B10-Roundtable-Pre-Season-Power-Rankings-Week-1-QB-18944777/1
Week #2 - RB/FB Discussion: http://247sports.com/Board/30/B10-Roundtable-Pre-Season-Power-Rankings-Week-2-RBFB-19066542/1
............................ QB......... RB/FB ........ WR/TE ......... OL........ DL ......... LB......... DB ......... ST........ Coaches
This Roundtable is open to all Big 10 fans. Voting for the position groups stays open until Sunday evening, with the results posted that night or Monday.
Up next is the wide receiver/tight end situation for each team. This DOES NOT include RBs, but DOES include west-coast style H-backs. With that in mind, please give a run-down of the WR/TE position for your team, including:
1) Who's returning for your team (stats are appreciated)?
2) How's the depth looking (provide a depth chart for the WR/TE position)?
3) Are there reasons you expect improvement compared to last year, or reasons that the position may be worse off?
4) Finally, please rate the WR/TE units as a whole in the conference, team by team, 1- 12.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MalibuMan 10 months ago
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Everyone is returning.
Allen Robinson (WR) - 77 catches - 1013 yards - 11 TDs
Kyle Carter (TE) - 36 catches - 453 yards - 2 TDs (only played 9 games due to season ending arm injury)
Brandon Mosby-Felder (WR) - 31 catches - 437 yards - 1 TD
Matt Lehman (TE) - 24 catches - 296 yards - 3 TDs
Alex Kenney (WR) - 17 catches - 172 yards
Jesse James (TE) - 15 cathes - 276 yards - 5 TDs
Allen Robinson, Brandon Mosby-Felder are definitely the top 2 WRs. Alex Kenney started off 2012 in the slot, however I'd expect Matt Zanellato and Trevor Williams to take the playing time.
Kyle Carter is apparently healing well, so expect for him to start again. Jesse James and Lehman will obviously be taking playing time also.
3) Are there reasons you expect improvement compared to last year, or reasons that the position may be worse off?
Production will only be down due to QB. Literally every player at WR/TE returns from last year. Mosby-Felder seemed as though he started to get the system as the year went on and his production rose towards the end of the year. Allen Robinson is a proven commodity. Literally everyone returns with another year of the playbook. 5* Adam Breneman will be on campus, however I don't expect him to play, but instead redshirt. In addition, Brent Wilkerson and Matt Zanellato looked impressive during the spring scrimmage, so keep any eye on them (although it was just a scrimmage).
I don't know enough about the rest of the conference.
This post was edited by spreadhdgfx 10 months ago
The perfect gift to add to your Christmas list or to buy for a PSUer in your family
Don't really know that much about other teams here, but Penn State has got to be high in this one. We return pretty much everything from a legit set of WR/TE's.
In total, we only lose 41 receptions out of 272. And 17 of those 41 lost receptions are because of position changes - Trevor Williams to CB and Garry Gilliam to OT.
WR: Allen Robinson (1000 yard receiver), Brandon Moseby-Felder (came on last half of 2012, ended up with 437 yards), Alex Kenney, newcomer Richy Anderson (slot), Eugene Lewis, Matt Zanellato, and we'll be adding DaeSean Hamilton.
TE: Kyle Carter (36/453/2), Jesse James(15/276/5), Matt Lehman(24/296/3), Brent Wilkerson (RS FR), and Adam Breneman (TR FR).
Our TE's last year had over 1000 yards between them, and we're essentially trading Garry Gilliam for Wilkerson and Breneman. Jackpot.
PSU is clearly first here. Our TE unit h three NFL guys on it who made major contributions last year. We all know how good Carter is, but Jesse James will break out at the top TE in the B1G and maybe the nation. Kid is that good. Robinson is the top WR in the league by a huge margin and we have solid guys all around him, including a young guy (Lewis) who has a chance to be very good as a redshirt freshman.
This one isn't close. We are loaded at these spots.
“We’re doing things we couldn’t imagine,” says safety Stephen Obeng-Agyapong. “But we’re doing them together.”
Other than that, solid write-up, man.
I expect the unit to be even stronger for a couple reasons.
1. Brent Wilkerson is seeing a lot of praise coming out of his RS year, and with one of the nation's top TE recruits from last cycle coming in with Breneman.
2. Pass catching TE's make a great safety valve for young QB's.
Also to a lesser extent our experience on the O-Line. 4 out of 5 starters coming back on there means we keep a TE in to block less and less.
"PSU a 3 to 4 win team" - New-era, September 2012
Who's Gone and Who's Back
MSU returns 2,006 of it's 2,729 overall passing yards from last year (73.5%), and 2,006 of its 2,510 WR and TE yards (79.9%) The biggest loss is TE Dion Sims (4th Round draft choice: Dolphins), who compiled 36 catches for 475 yards and 2 TDs. The only other guy who isn't playing for MSU this year is RS SR FB/H-back TyQuann Hammock, who is finishing his career elsewhere (1 catch, 29 yards).
What that means is that MSU returns 4 of its top 5 pass catches from a year ago, all WRs. They are:
RS SR Bennie Fowler, 6'1 215, 41 catches, 524 yards, 12.8 YPC 4 TDs
RS JR Keith Mumphery, 6'0 208, 42 catches, 515 yards, 12.3 YPC, 1 TD
RS JR Tony Lippett, 6'3 190, 36 catches, 392 yards, 10.9 YPC, 2 TDs
true Soph Aaron Burbridge, 6'1 190, 29 catches, 364 yards, 12.6 YPC, 2 TDs
RS JR Andrew Gleichert, 6'5 255, 1 catch, 8 yards, 0 TDs
RS Soph Paul Lang, 6'5 260, 3 catches, 8 yards, 2.7 YPC, 1 TD
As of right now, there are 2 clear starters in Mumphery and Burbridge. Both can play outside or line up in the slot. Fowler is a good bet to start at one of the outside positions as well.
The question mark here is Lippett, a long strider who was very inconsistent a year ago. The strong play in the spring of DeAnthony Arnett (true JR 5'11 175, 3 catches, 69 yards) has some people speculating that Arnett may be the #4 WR this year. He's definitely a slot WR, so that would lend itself to Burbridge and Mumphery spending more time on the outside.
At TE, Gleichert is the only sure bet; Lang sat out the spring with a back injury. A pair of RS FR TEs, Evan Jones (6'5 245) and Josiah Price (6'5 250) were clearly not ready to go by the spring, so the depth here is questionable. There's been some talk of Lawrence Thomas playing TE this year (6'3 300 this spring, reportedly trying to get down to 280 for the fall) as well as DT, but that seems more like spring tinkering than anything else.
Reasons for optimism / concern
1. Optimism. As I'm sure most of you know, MSU returned the lowest amount of receiving yardage in the conference last year, as well as replacing its QB. All 4 WRs listed above were making their major college starting debuts, save Fowler, who missed almost all of the 2011 season with a broken foot (played a little in '10). In short, the trial by fire is over, and the WRs should be better this year for it.
The numbers above aren't particularly impressive, but it should be noted that Burbridge missed 5 games last year and did not start until the 6th game of the season; he ended the spring as the #1 overall WR and looks primed for a nice 2013 campaign. The unit is completely healthy, and it looks like DeAnthony Arnett could provide another option if one of the starters doesn't progress as planned.
2. Concern. The TE position. Though replacing 36 catches and 475 total yards from the TE spot is far from insurmountable (About 3 catches and 40 YPG), no TE has caught 3 passes in a single game, let alone do it over the course of the season. The position will see its share of passes, but with Lang sidelined and Gleichert coming off of a broke wrist, this is a definite question mark.
That production could be made up from the WRs (1 extra reception/game for each of the starting 4 WRs would do it), but in terms of production from the TE spot specifically, MSU fans don't quite know what to expect yet.
This post was edited by MalibuMan 10 months ago
1) Kenny Bell, everyone has heard of him for his hit or his Afro. He is the best WR on the team.
Jamal Turner, a very explosive slot receiver and everything is starting to click.
Quincy Enunwa, he's a huge guy with lots if strength.
Alonzo Moore, an explosive young WR from Louisiana. He's very athletic.
Jordan Westercamp, set multiple Illinois receiving records during high school. Can catch anything.
There is a few more young talented WR I'm not mentioning.
At TE there is a lot of young talent but we still don't know much about them. But Jake Long should be a very reliable do it all tight end.
Sorry but I don't have the stats for any of these guys.
2) 1st team would be
TE Jake long
2nd team would be
TE Sam Cotton/Trey Foster/Cethan Carter
3) This group should be even deeper and more talented than last year. Our 2nd team WR could start on some other teams!
I don't know enough about the other teams but I would for sure say that NU has the #1 receiving corps in the BIG 10.
This post was edited by Huskers123 10 months ago
Penn State returns the WR of the year in the Big Ten, as well as First team Big Ten TE Kyle Carter who was a RS Frosh last year. Carter was also first team Freshman AA.
Jesse James plays the Y TE as well as Matt Lehman. James has all conferecne abilities. Carter plays the F TE, a flex/h-back TE.
5 Star Adam Brenneman is playing the F, and could RS.
PSU might have the best TE group in the Nation, and ARob is a preseason AA at WR.
PSU may be in really great shape at WR/TE.
The problem will be getting them the ball.
As an OSU fan, having seen Pryor and Miller try to start up close and personal as true Freshman, I can tell you it is not pretty.
Berenneman may be the real deal, but as a Freshman he would be playing "chuck and duck" as it is. To make it worse, he is not going to have a great OL in front of him. Teams are going to blitz early and often.
After seeing the other PSU QB's in their Spring Game, I wasn't impressed.
So, it adds up to a lot of missed wide open receivers. The end result is not nearly as many yards.
Trevor Williams is on D now.
These rankings don't take that into factor, just position by position.
And I do agree with you, we will see a decrease in numbers, but I do expect to see Hackenberg start this year FWIW.
Haha, sorry. I have a buddy up at school that is named Alex Robinson and I guess that was just stuck in my head for some reason.
Bedford, thanks for that catch. I totally forgot about that switch.
Not sure if srs. The OL is one of the biggest strengths of the PSU team.
They return 4 starters from a very solid group last year.
Follow me on Twitter @rayraycotto
Swing and a miss.
Like 2013 said, if you're taking QB into account, you're not doing this correctly.
This post was edited by PSUfan28 10 months ago
By the way, up above I meant Hack not Brenneman. Don't know why I typed that.
I don't know how you can ignore the QB when talking WR/TE. You can have All Pro players at those positions, but with no one to throw it to them they will just be out for a jog all afternoon.
I get that this list is looking "at paper" who is best. However, if at the end of the season PSU has less than 2,000 yards passing everyone will say the passing game wasn't that good.
This post was edited by DaveInNerk 10 months ago
James Clark-incoming frosh
Corey Smith-incoming JuCo
H-Backs and Hybrids:
Jordan Hall- 3/31/0
Jalin Marshall-incoming frosh
Dontre Wilson-incoming frosh
Marcus Baugh-incoming frosh
We bring back every WR/TE except Stoneburner who never really developed like we all hoped. D. Smith is very explosive but can get the drops, Philly has decent speed but has developed into more of a possession guy. Spencer, Fields, and Thomas will look to significantly contribute for the first time. Vannett and Heuerman are Tress type TE's but Meyer seems to like them, we'll see how much they contribute other than blocking. Jordan Hall was hurt all but 2 games last year and got a med. red, if healthy he'll be expected to play the "Harvin" role. Incoming frosh Clark,Wilson, and Marshall are all very exlosive playmakers but obviously they're young and unproven. Marcus Baugh is very athletic and a perfect fit for the H-Back and could cause match up issues, but again hasn't played a down of CFB yet.
Without really looking at the entire writeup of each school, Indiana has a strong chance at being #1 in this. They bring back 325 of 330 receptions in an offense that put up 3744 passing yards and 24 passing TDs.
So 2000 yards passing on the season equates to 167 yards per game, and about a 39% dropoff in passing yards.
I get that you "weren't impressed" with the QB's in the spring game, but that's pretty ridiculous. Ferguson has done a good job, just needs to clean up his consistency. I'm personally not certain who will start (I lean towards Ferguson over Hack), but reality is that BOB's system is very QB friendly and we've got WR's and TE's who are extremely experienced. If they need to, they will go up and get the ball. Heck, I remember several plays last year where Robinson fought back for the ball and if not for him, the pass on 4th down would have been a woeful incompletion.
I expect some dropoff in QB play, but the level you're talking is pretty foolish. You're telling me in an offense where we return 8 starters, that this year is only going to be about half as good as the offense last year, where the offense was not familiar at all, where we returned about 2 starters from the previous year?
This post was edited by psubills62 10 months ago
...and neither Zanellato nor anyone else but Anderson plays slot behind Kenney.
People always seem to forget what we looked like going into LAST season. One full time starter returning (Urschel) and a half-time starter (McGloin, who had never looked very good). That's it. We returned like 10 receptions from the previous year and almost no carries.
If we did what we did last year, I can only imagine what happens this year. Another year under Fitz (I think only PSU fans understand how important our change in S&C was) and another year in the offense, and I certainly don't expect things to get worse. Not with who we bring back and the addition of our rsFR like Wilkerson, Lewis, and certainly Lynch.
I just expect us to lean more on the running game with our trio of backs. Passing game will come, even if it is later in the season.
I'm just going to do the rankings portion, I'm sure someone else will write up the rest for Michigan.
2) Indiana (odd to say)
5) Ohio St.
Throwing a quick list together.
1. Penn State
OK........I'll bring in the Iowa Hawkeyes to this section.
4 Tight ends with some game experience.
C.J Fiedorowicz, Pre-season All Big Ten 6-7
Ray Hamilton, 6-4
Jake Duzey, 6-4
And here's to hoping that last year's woeful offensive stats were an aberration.
'Texan by birth, Hawkeye by the Grace of God'
I wouldn't have any heartburn at all with this list if you swapped Northwestern and MSU. Wildcats are a much more dangerous passing team. I'm not sure what MSU will be able to do without Bell.
I've been playing Devil's advocate for a case for Indiana on PSU's site but I give the Lions an edge on the 3 WR + 3 TE depth.
If you went traditional 3 WR + 1 TE and throw in a couple of blockers, I'd say Indiana would be #1.
i think with Colter at QB NWs passing game is average, but they have an explosive running attack with him at the helm. MSU is going to rely on the pass this year and I wouldn't be surprised if Cook jumped Maxwell.
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