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I'm struggling to understand how you downgrade Michigan on the basis of James Ross' experience, yet Taiwan Jones gets a huge positive mention.
Ross: 11 games, 36 tackles, .5 sacks, at least one tackle in every game appeared in.
Jones: 11 games, 38 tackles, 1 sack, at least one tackle in every game appeared in.
In addition, you talk about "recruiting rankings talent" but Joe Bolden had practically identical stats as well.
Bolden: 10 games, 30 tackles, 1 sack, at least one tackle in every game appeared in.
It just seems a bit silly to assume that Jones is going to be a huge positive for MSU but Ross (and Michigan's other young LBs) might be a liability.
That's your opinion. In Rocky's opinion Michigan is knocked because Ross will have issues with his reads. Yet the only reason he played at all his Freshman year was because of his advanced instincts and quick reads. However, we all have our own opinions.
This is Michigan, fergodsakes.
Um, Wartman played in one game and got one tackle last year. I don't think that really counts as "playing very well as a true frosh." The best true frosh LBs in the B1G last year were James Ross, Joe Bolden, and Mason Monheim.
Playing includes practice. Wartman has been very impressive since his arrival. Would have done a lot for us last year before getting injured.
If UM had Ryan, I'd give you the edge, but he is out. Hull and Carson are both good, experienced players and by every indication Wartman is ready to have a good year. We have depth issues, but our starters are strong. Hull was one of the best playmakers on the entire team last year and would have played a lot more if he weren't playing behind Gerald Hodges (who will likely start at LB as an NFL rookie).
The PSU LB corp is ALWAYS in the top few in the conference under Ron Vanderlinden. This year will be no different. You people just don't pay enough attention.
“We’re doing things we couldn’t imagine,” says safety Stephen Obeng-Agyapong. “But we’re doing them together.”
Ok, so you have a young LB who looked good in practice and hasn't shown a single thing on the field. I still don't think that qualifies as "playing well as a true frosh."
This post was edited by CMXI 9 months ago
The argument you just used for Wartman applies to both Ross and Bolden except both had sold stats as Freshman LB's last year and Gordon is no slouch. Michigan's unit can be easily argued that top 3 or even top 2 without Ryan.
Good for you. I've been around long enough to know when a kid really has it. The right people are high on Wartman. Not worried about him in the slightest.
That doesn't justify why PSU should be higher than Michigan. Michigan has two guys who many feel the same way for except they have actual stats to back it up.
His tackle was a whole hell of a lot better than Grant's tackle...
Jones has a year on Ross and beat out the incumbent SR starter (and captain) in Chris Norman halfway through the season, who was Hon. Mention All Big 10 each of the last 2 years.
The difference between MSU and UM is that Jones is the "weakest" of the 3 LBs for MSU and already beat out a pretty good player as a true soph. The Spartans are in pretty good shape. Jones also had 5.5 TFL and 3 PBU, which you didn't mention.
Again, if Ryan was healthy, I'd put UM at #2 behind MSU. I watched Max Bullough play pretty well as a true FR and then he struggled early as a true Soph starter with some reads and getting caught up in the LOS. This from a guy who arguably has the best understanding of the game of any Big 10 LB right now (based on how much authority Narduzzi gives him on the field).
Point is, even the best MIKE in the conference right now struggled in the early part of his true soph year. It happens to almost all young LBs; it's not meant to be an insult, just what I've seen happen more often than not. Bullough was a 4-star/#5 ILB on Rivals, so he's got a recruiting pedigree on par with just about anyone on UM's roster; even the most talented guys make mistakes in the early going.
This post was edited by MalibuMan 9 months ago
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
How's RJS coming along? Out of your '12 LB class, he was the guy I wanted most at MSU.
I really tend to focus more on the play on the field more than recruiting rankings or spring game time. In the absence of on-field results, I'll look at those, but it's not my preference. When I look at a team like UM, they have young players, but a guy in Morgan who's on par with Hull and Carson, a former starter at SAM and a true soph who showed more than Wartman.
UM also has superior depth (in my opinion), given that Bolden also had a solid true FR campaign and Ryan will be back at some point.
Could PSU end up with a better LB unit than UM this year? Of course. As things stand now, PSU is starting to remind me of the John L Smith-led MSU teams (don't kill me for that!), in that your starting 22 will be pretty darn good, but the drop-off from the 1st to 2nd team at some spots will be precipitous.
Ok, I laughed outloud at this
FWIW, I think there's a big drop between UM at 5 and Northwestern at 6. No way to show that on here, but I think any of the top 5 could end up being the #1 unit by year's end. I have a hard time seeing that for teams ranked 6th or lower.
Your best LB is Ross. Ours is Carson. Carson is better than Ross.
Your next best LB is Bolden. Ours is Hull. Hull is better than Bolden.
Your third best LB is Morgan. Ours is Wartman. I will be KIND and give you Morgan, though Wartman is talented enough to easily pass him. But as you mention, we haven't seen him on the field so I will give you the nod.
That is why our unit is better. Got it?
It could be argued, but the main thing is the info is out there for fans to see now. What they vote means nothing. I love Ross and Bolden and see them as a known quantity not an inexperienced unknown. I have confidence in Gordon, he beat out Ryan initially and has been a SLB the whole time Mattison has been here. It is natural for others to pump up their players and downplay others
It's all opinions and everyone has their biases. No real reason to get worked up
Not bad, he's struggled with weight a little bit - he wasn't able to gain enough weight to really get in the rotation last year. He played mainly on special teams, and while the coaches were hoping to bring him in as a MLB, he got a bit stuck behind Ross and Bolden emerging as a young core. Ross will start at WLB as long as he's at Michigan, so RJS doesn't really have an avenue there, and he's behind Morgan and Bolden at MLB, so there isn't really a starting spot available. I assume he'll continue to contribute on special teams, and he'll be penciled in as the 2nd-string WLB, but he's kind of the odd man out right now.
Relax buddy, damn.
I couldn't have been more calm in my response. He wanted a reason for why our LB's are better, and he got one. Put it as simply as I could.
I wouldn't say Ross is our best lb. And I wouldn't say Bolden is second
Sure man, whatever you say. Even other PSU fans recognized that you were getting worked up there.
Having Bolden, RJS, Beyer, Gedeon and McCray pushing the starters for the next 2 years is a nice problem to have.
The depth is definitely there. 2014 will add in even more talent across the board, and the only LB we lose between 2013-2014 is Cam Gordon.
Yep. For being considered one of the better LBer units in the B1G, they are also one of the younger LBer units in the B1G. I remember hearing during the spring game that Michigan is the youngest team in the B1G. One of the most talented across the board also.
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