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Looks like a lot of guys who didn't have a shot at cracking the starting roster decided to transfer to get playing time. And that's bad... why?
Explain to me why a kid who won't see the field shouldn't transfer to another school where he can get an opportunity to play
That's your explanation? Hahaha wow that is funny.
21 players pushed out in two years and no other schools outside the SEC does this and you cannot see what's going on? Wow you are a homer.
I see guys wanting to play football. Would you want to stay at a school when you knew you weren't better than the guys in front of you?
Changing the topic is a clear sign you are losing the debate. Saban is pushing kids out and treats them like cattle. Spin all you want he never did this at MSU since there were rules to prevent this type of unethical behavior. SEC has no ehtics they do not punish teams in their league they encourage cheating. Cam Newtown. Oversigning etc
How is it changing the subject? The majority of guys "leaving" to help us "oversign" are transferring to other schools. For playing time. It's not rocket science, chief. Guys want to play.
21 kids in two years? Seriously? Penn state had 2 in two years come on are you that naive? Really?
Sounds like we recruit better than they do. If you're a sophomore already behind a senior and a junior and then a freshman comes in and jumps you in the depth char, what would you do?
If my team was in the SEC where there are no rules I guess I could see it your way that it's ok to push out 21 players in two years from one team. I respect the SEC but it's clear they play by different rules that give them a HUGE advantage. If you cannot agree that they oversign and push players out then there is nothing to talk about. I respect your opinion but 100%do not agree with your explanation of Sabans lack of ethics.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by AngryChair91 15 months ago
I fail to see how, even if they're getting "pushed out," getting a guy playing time via transferring is a bad thing.
Haha that made me laugh.
In all seriousness though Saban has mastered how to cheat the system. I respect that. He was able to dump a whole recruting class in two years that's impressive cheating.
Those figures are unfortunately skewed. You list 23. Two were academically ineligible. Pretty sure Saban didn't have anything to do with that considering one of those guys now start for us. One guy died. Did Saban have something to do with this too? Harbin played baseball. Was he pushed by Saban to do this? Corey grant left due to lack of playing time. Saban is on record regretting his departure. All a ruse I guess. Robby green a starting safety on 2009 nat chmship team tested positive for mj and was suspended by NCAA for one year when our secondary was at its weakest. Then returned but tested positive again and was dismissed. See honey badger. I guess in the big ten they would just get tressell to lie to the NCAA for him. Ethically of course given its the big ten. Sentimore broke team rules and was dismissed. He was good but Saban maintains order. He starts for Tennessee. Ohio state has order right? Kendall Kelly had heat stroke and was diabetic reportedly. If he was your son would you want him back in the alabam heat. He was good big and fast. Big miss. Wasn't given med redshirt because he sucked. Kerry Murphy back issues. Wes neighbors was on Bryant scholarship so didn't count. Terry grant graduated and didn't come back for senior year. Taylor Pharr had several concussions. His father is on record. Also graduated. Didn't come back for last year of eligibility. Sme kids left for playing time. There are several on the team who graduated and never played. Explain why Saban didn't push these kids out so he just has 85 starters.
I could freaking start at PSU. It's really easy to understand. Guys come in and compete for playing time. If they don't win the job, they would rather go elsewhere to play, instead of burning 4 yrs on practice squads or in the 3 deep.
Where is Davidee when you need him.... Seems we have an issue with His tOSU...
"Cardale Jones who was a greyshirt signee (announced on NSD) and doesn't count towards this class. If you take him out and you take into account Adam Griffin not being renewed as a walk-on, Ohio State arrives at 85."
Greyshirting is an evil thing when Saban does it and just glossed over when his team does it...
BTW this quote is from Davidee's website oversigning.com.
Pot meet Kettle I guess.
anyone who argues "well we end up with the same as everyone else in the end anyway bc of qualification, etc" you are dumb. 1st of all the academic requirements for the SEC is much lower. and on top of that EVERY school has issues with qualifying. the only difference is other schools outside the SEC don't have an extra 10 athletes to make up for that issue.
i wish i could find it. i tried but failed. someone on our husker board did a complete breakdown of the past 5 recruiting classes for conferences. averaged the size of each teams class spanned over the 5 year period. the SEC averaged 9 more athletes per year per team. as someone said earlier if you dont see how that makes an uneven playing field i dont know what else to tell you...?
lets say Nebraska signs 20 players. and Bama signs 30. both of which can only take 20.
Nebraska: lets say 25% of our class end up duds (academic or poor performers)... that is 5 people so we drop down to only 15 people for the class... well Bama can still only have "20" so they have 5 people that dont pan out and not only can they absorb that easily but on top of that they still have to cut or get rid of 5 more ... it closes the gaps for duds. big time.
This post was edited by iBleedRed6801 15 months ago
I think the gripe is that when you take into account NFL draftees, graduates, and end-of-semester transfers, you get X. These schools then sign Y. Then when the medical hardships, team rules violators, and academic ineligibles don't make up the discrepancy, a magic number of players -- almost always the exact number needed; certainly not less -- decide it's time to go find playing time elsewhere. Does this absolutely mean kids are getting pushed out? No. It's circumstantial. And, being totally honest, if the team I was a homer for were doing the same thing, I'd want to give them the benefit of the doubt and/or rationalize it, too. But -- come on -- it's a pretty big coincidence.
As for the morality of pushing kids out goes, it's just a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't think it's right for coaches to give kids the boot because they mis-evaluated their talent level out of high school. Violating team rules? Sure. Kid genuinely wants to seek out more PT? Absolutely. But a kid being forced to leave his new home and friends because a coach did a crappy job of scouting? That's on the coach. And if that kid wants to be a tackling dummy for the remainder of his eligibility, he has every right to be. As I have no inside knowledge, I can't say if/if not/whom Saban/whoever has pushed out of his program -- just discussing this from a strictly philosophical point of view.
As for the argument that more talent means more attrition, that doesn't make sense. It's relative. 3rd and 4th stringers at PSU or Indiana -- or wherever -- are just as unlikely to see playing time as 3rd or 4th stringers on a talented team, and they're just as capable of transferring down to see more action.
This post was edited by MikeCaramba 15 months ago
It's actually quite simple. You have 85 guys on your team. 15 graduate. 10 guys choose to transfer, not return to the team, or go pro. That means you can sign 25 guys that february. If it looks like one or two won't qualify, then you can sign one or two more.
It's not the SEC's fault that the Big Ten can't anticipate attrition or do math correctly.
Can some of you oversigning guys indicate specific players that are screwed in this system. I am talking about the mythical players that are guaranteed spots and denied on signing day without warning or guys who desperately want to stay at a school but are forced out? I have never actually heard of one.
This post was edited by joetheogre 15 months ago
Proof that they are "pushed out" and didn't leave of their own free will.
My issue is with the B10 for not allowing it, not with the SEC for exploiting it. It does seriously tilt the playing field, but there are no rules being broken so why not allow it?
I'm probably misunderstanding, so I want to be clear: you think the most likely explanation here is that Big Ten coaches (many of whom came from the SEC) are simply worse at arithmetic than SEC coaches (many of whom came from the Big Ten)?
Who cares? If I was a rival coach or of another school recruiting the same said kid, I would use this material as "leverage" against another school doing such practices. Let me find 1 or 2 five stars that transfer and it's good night Irene with signing any other player that I'm trying to get my paws on. I would be RELENTLESS with the kid and most importantly his MOTHER that the school is just a football factory trying to weed out the weak links and your scholarship is merely a piece of paper that says said coach "owns" you until he decides to "get rid of" you....
Mommas not gonna hear that!!
Real question is why Saban did not do this at MSU?
Answer B1G looks into oversigning an pushing players out. SEC does not care about ethics.
This post was edited by AngryChair91 15 months ago
you didnt misunderstand. he is a homer that just decided to come on here ignore all the rational/statistical/factual arguments, spew that comment out, then left.
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