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I understand the thinking behind the pick... Rutgers is physically in NJ and thus right next to the NYC viewer audience, but I think the geographic model is a little overrated and outdated in a lot of circumstances. Because my question is this: Are there more Rutgers fans/alums in NYC than fans/alums from Ohio State? Michigan? PSU? Etc.? 'Cause if not, and I'm thinking not, you already "have" the NYC TV market. It would be one thing if, say, the Big XII wanted the Florida TV market and they took FSU; that's a big school with a huge and avid fan base. And I won't act like there are a ton of fans/alums that stay in the same general area as their school. But taking FSU is not the same as taking UCF or USF, for example.
I just don't think there's a "point" to the geographic model much anymore. People are so spread out now and, thanks to the Internet and TV, you really should just go for straight numbers (fans) rather than locations. I mean, if you specifically wanted the Dallas TV market, would you take SMU? No, you'd probably go for Texas, aTm, or Baylor. And hell, I bet teams like Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. have enough fans living in Dallas that you'd be surprised how much of the market share you could actually get without a nearby team.
Now that they tied the BTN with the YES network. Fox owns 49% of both. New Yorkers cant watch the Yankees unless they have the BTN.
Doesn't matter how many "fans" there are. It matters how many TV sets they can push their package on. That is why Missouri got into the SEC. You think St. Louis gives a damn about the Missouri Tigers? No, but there is a lot of TV sets in the area.
But if they don't care about Mizzou, they're not watching, so did we really get into any TV sets? Alabama fans in St. Louis will be watching Alabama. Same for LSU fans or Texas fans or WVU fans or what have you. Though I do understand the situation with wanting to push the SEC Network or the BTN or what have you in those areas. But, do you have to have a team there to do that? I mean, again, if no one is watching Mizzou anyway, why do you HAVE to have them to give the city the SEC Network? Mizzou being in or not in the SEC has no bearing on the number of fans of other SEC teams in the city.
Well my question is this, and I might be totally wrong and an idiot and y'all can slap me around if I sound as such, but say you're wanting more TVs in NYC... I think there as as many if not more fans/alums (thus viewers) in the city of Ohio State or Michigan or Notre Dame or PSU or Alabama or FSU or... you get my drift, as Rutgers. So if that's the case, why do you need Rutgers to get into NYC? There are fans already there in your geographic target. So my thinking is, why not go after teams with MORE fans/alums (thus more total potential viewers)? I think with each passing year, CFB (like most things in life) gets less and less locally focused. Thanks to the Internet and TV.
Again, it has nothing to do with fans. It has to do with houses and TV's. Pure population. For example...
I'm here in eastern North Carolina. I don't want to get the ECU game every week, but I get it anyway because I live here. People in New York might feel the same way about Rutgers, but they still always get the Rutgers game.
I tried to explain the best I could. Hope it makes sense.
But what Delaney wants is to get the BTN into more homes, right? Specifically in NYC. Why does he need Rutgers to do that? I get what you mean about ECU games being on where you live 'cause you live nearby, but would a conference need ECU to get into said homes? How many households tune into ECU games where you live compared to, say, SCar or UNC or someone similar? Or say in a city like Dallas, how many households tune into SMU games when compared to Oklahoma?
I guess I just don't see the point in having to add Rutgers to get into NYC households. There are tons of fans in the city (I'm assuming) of all of the top B1G teams, so why not just push the BTN? No lack of potential viewers. And instead of adding a team like Rutgers, who not that many households are tuning into I'd imagine, go after a team with a big following, thus more potential households tuning in.
Maybe I'm just not grasping how it works all that well.
It's a leverage deal. Fox can now tie their YES network in with the B1G when they negotiate to get put on the basic cable package. That'll get the B1G probably .75 for every single TV in New York. That's a lot of money. If they don't have a team in that region it is harder to screw the cable companies.
But why? Is it because having a team in the region makes it look like there will be more viewers? 'Cause like I said, I feel like all you'd have to do is show the number of fans/alums (potential households) of all the teams you have in the area and it would be a staggering number. And then there's no need to add a team like Rutgers.
NJ has about 9 million people and 2.5 to 3 million TV households. By adding Rutgers to the B10, BTN will be able to expand its basic cable footprint to most of NJ. That will generate as much as $20 million in incremental cable TV fees alone per year even before accounting for incremental advertising dollars or any value from being adjacent to the NYC market. To the extent BTN is able to leverage all of its brands - Rutgers, Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, Nebraska, etc - to increase penetration into the NYC market, that will add even more value. But NJ itself is a very valuable addition to the BTN footprint.
But why do you need Rutgers to do that is my question. There are plenty of Ohio State, Michigan, etc. fans in NJ and NYC. Do you NEED a team in that area to expand the BTN? Especially one that brings so few unique viewers (IE: Rutgers fans).
This post was edited by sf2k4 17 months ago
I'm a Buckeye, I live about 10 miles outside NYC now in North Jersey.
I've lived in NYC as well.
Is NYC a big College football town.....no.
However our fan base has numerous bars throughout the city both officially and unofficially as do many programs etc. There's plenty of college football fans in NYC.
Penn State has tons of fans up here as well.
Rutgers is obviously well repped in Jersey, but it's also well repped in NYC. There is evidence of this. The Empire State building turned their color red to support the Rutger's run at an undefeated season when they had Ray Rice.
Either way I'm happy that Maryland and will be stoked if Rutgers makes it into the Big Ten......that's 2 drivable games I get to watch my boys wax ass.
Yes. That's how it works. Remember, the B10 was the first conference to make a conference-owned nework work at all. And it wasn't easy. It was a fight with each major cable provider in each market within the B10 footprint. Eventually, the B10 got providers such as Comcast to agree to a fee of about $0.80 per household in every market they serve inside the B10 footprint and $0.10 per household in every market they serve outside the B10 footprint. And they got nearly all the major cable and satellite providers in the current B10 footprint to agree to roughly the same deal. At this point, it would be extremely difficult to renegotiate those existing deals even for new markets until the contracts come up for renewal. Basically, if we add Rutgers or Maryland to the B10, we get the higher subscription fees in their states. That's how it works.
As for advertising, those rates are determined by ratings for each type of programming in each market. But you first need to get access in a market (i.e. get onto the basic cable guide) before you can generate advertising dollars. Getting access is key.
Also, for everyone who says people in NYC do not watch CFB and MBB, that's not correct. It's just a relatively small percentage that are going to want to follow a particular team and that makes it very hard for a niche network like BTN to get onto the basic cable guide. It can be done, but Rutgers alone will not do it. And NYC is controlled by some unique cable providers like Cablevision who are notoriously difficult to deal with.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson 17 months ago
Yes, Rutgers will more than double all(Don't know how to quantify or if true, likely more) represented Big Tens fans. The more viewers the greater the ad revenue and market share etc. I'm also not sure how the media buying works on this scale, but as previously mentioned, the 95 corridor is epic money especially as the network develops and ages in these markets.
"The Brand" has made a smart and strategic move here, which will only be further pronounced by future moves that this move has opened.
Jersey kids stay in Jersey more so than say a Midwestern kid. There's great pride in being from Jersey for a lot of people who are from Jersey.
It pains me, but he's right.
Now fill her up, unleaded.....cash of course.
People are missing the point. Delany doesn't care is people in NYC are watching the BTN, its all about putting the BTN on thier cable and making them pay for it. Fox owns YES and part of BTN. Through the YES Network, BTN will get on the NYC cable package. Thus making NYC viewers pay for BTN because of YES. YES airs 80+ Yankee games and Knicks games, people will pay for that. Think of this way, I have HGTV on my cable package even though I never watch the channel, but i'm still paying for it.
That's exactly right. The Yankees are what carries the region. Without YES, the BTN would have a hell of a time getting a decent rate in the NYC area.
As for southern NJ, that is already covered because they are in the Philly market which the BTN already has a negotiated rate with (I think it is .70 per sub).
I was curious what they bring as well. I know expansion is about TV sets and it's always said that the conference gets markets within each state. If Rutgers is in NJ why would the B1G get the NY market. I know it's right there but even reports have 15% of NYers as even being college fans.
"People always ask me if I wish I were bigger. I tell them no. I always wanted to be a miniature badass." Dustin Pedroia
My thought process was this: In NYC or NJ, how many more households would tune in to a Rutgers game (since it's the "local" team) vs. tune in to watch a higher profile team such as Texas. Fans and alumni disperse all over the country these days, not to mention you'll pull more general CFB fans to a higher profile team such as Texas whereas Rutgers really only brings Rutgers fans/alumni/viewers. So, from a sheer potential numbers POV, does Rutgers bring in more NJ/NYC viewers than a Texas?
NJ doesn't have it's own TV market. Northern NJ is in the NYC market and Southern NJ is in the Philly market. So, if you get Rutgers, you get the Northern NYC market. If Fox never acquired YES, it would be near impossible to get a good rate in the NYC market for BTN.
It's all about the YES network and the Yankees. The Yankees are allowing the BTN to enter NYC, not the popularity of Rutgers. Rutgers is merely needed for contractual purposes (to expand the footprint).
Rutgers wlll not pull NYC on its own, but on the margin it helps. The B10 already has several top national brands and MD and RU bring two very good regional ones (RU being geographically nextdoor to NYC). My guess is the next name on Jim Delany's target list, assuming Texas and ND remain off the board, is Syracuse. Syracuse hoops is very popular in NYC. Delany is betting that all of the B10's brands together along with FOX as its partner will get BTN into NYC. And if he's right (which he usually is), the B10's $$$ advantage will jump to a whole new level.
So the point is you HAVE to have a locally or nearby located team in order to move into a new geographic area, correct? It would be one thing if it was, say, Syracuse because of the basketball prestige. But what I was getting hung up on was that I'm under the assumption (and I'm probably 100% wrong) that there are more fans of other B1G teams in NJ than there are of Rutgers, hence why not go after a team like a Texas that also probably has more fans in NJ and offer the BTN there anyway? Maybe I'm just not giving Rutgers enough credit is the problem. I just view them as very small market when it comes to athletic viewership.
You are correct. If you add up the fans of all the B1G fans in nj there is probably more than Ruetgers. Not all B1G teams are on the network every weekend. So if a OSU game isnt available in jersey, the OSU fans call and complain. There is only a tenth as many OSU fans in the region. But if Ruetgers isn't on, that is ten times as many complaints.
So I'm just underestimating the number of Rutgers fans then. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now it doesn't seem as crazy to me.
Murdoch owns 49% of YES and Big Ten Network. After some rough negotiations, Big Ten Network on basic cable in NY. Thanks for playing.
"We don't care about anything but winning. No one cares about ethical standards thats for losers..."
BUCKNUTS 21 self trolling.
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