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Exactly. There isn't some moral failing on the part of your average janitor, but the "wealth = morality" ideology has made it a lot more palatable for the vast majority of the populace when laws/policies are enacted that result in wage stagnation or even decreases for the members of society working jobs that are already low-paying.
I guess we'll just have to trust that all the needies are honestly looking for work like they're suppose to. I mean, that is being monitored isn't it?
"Nobody makes me bleed my own blood, nobody!"
No one is saying we don't need welfare reform; God knows the system needs to be fixed. But we've got to stop making such sweeping generalizations all the time. Saying no one on welfare is actually working a hard days work is just as bad as someone saying that all Christians want to burn gay people alive. Sure, it makes arguing easier when you generalize, but it doesn't make you correct and in the long run I think it does a lot of damage because people start to really believe it and then base decisions on it.
This is kinda what I'm talking about. Coining pejorative terms like "needies" for diverse groups of people is unnecessary and unproductive. Red, didn't you tell me that you received aid at one point in your life? There are a ton of "working poor" people who don't make enough money to survive.
And yes, welfare work requirements are still in place, despite the huge push by the Romney campaign back in mid-2012 to say otherwise.
Let me ask you a question. When people do surveys and a update comes across the bottom of your tv screen saying "97% of Americans feel this or do that or want this etc", do you ever wonder why the fk you were never asked? It's because they did a "sweeping generalization" based on the answers of 1000 people. Which 1000? Where from, how old, what party are they for? Our entire system is set up to ask a few and run it through, ask a few run it through.
You said yesterday that you wanted drivers license test to be much more strict, why, because you wanted a certain level of knowledge and accountability to be met before setting kids free on the road. Well guess what, today I'm saying I want the welfare system to be more strict, why, because I want a certain level of knowledge and accountability to be met before giving money away that I helped work for.
If you want that, you'd be better served arguing for corporate transparency re: corporate tax breaks and corporate welfare. The amount of taxpayer money going to welfare pales in comparison to the taxpayer money subsidizing large corporations.
I'm quite well versed in how surveys are done. I got my Masters in advertising for God's sake.
And like I said, I agree that the system needs reform. But part of that starts with not treating all poor people as if they're bad people.
Yeah and this is what I'm talking about. I call them needy, you slap a more respectable title on them and we suddenly forget that many are abusing the system ehh? That's the research for reform I'm referring to because the ones I speak of are just that, needy and nothing more. Unless you grew up in this my town you will never know where I'm coming from (and visa versa). It's about weeding out the needy's so the ones who "have" to have it can get it long term.
That's just it, I'm not againt welfare, food stamps or any govt assistant. I have zero issues with that. They could give more $$$ to less peolle and I wouldn't care...as long as there's a system to weed out the abusers.
Nice plug on your education now lets get one thing straight, I'm for govt assistants, I'm not for a system that doesn't weed out the abusers. You act as if I'm somehow part of the problem and you're here to educate the poor Mississippi boy on what he doesn't know. You don't like mass generalizations ehh? Could have fooled me.
You quoted me as saying "I want the welfare system to be more strict, why, because I want a certain level of knowledge and accountability to be met before giving money away that I helped work for."
Yes I clearly hate poor people. Smh
This post was edited by Red Goodman 14 months ago
Quite possibly the most outstanding analogy I have heard in my 43 years of life.
It was a joke, not an insult. 90% of what I did in grad school was conduct surveys.
There is a big difference between working and scraping buy (poor people) and being unmotivated. The problem is this country has allowed lack of motivation to be a disability. We have said its ok for you to wake up at noon and feel like you have completed your mission for the day of waking up. The left has done a great job of lumping everything together and point out how the right wants to take away all their entitlements. That's not true. Fact is people are tired of this country allowing a generation and now a second generation to do nothing more than occupy space and get paid well to do it. The problem isn't with the guy working 50 hours a week making $8 an hour. It's with the people who choose to do nothing
Again i am not "pro" food stamps per se, my original point was simply that foodstamps are less than 2% of the federal budget.
I get tired of hearing people that blame "others" (blacks, immigrants, hispanics, Liberals, rednecks, etc.) for problems that all of us are responsible for. The reason we can't fix the deficit is because everyone blames "others" ,and no one will vote for a politician that tells them they will cut their medicare, close Army bases, reduce Social Security, cap the mortgage deduction, eliminate student loan deductions, etc.
There are hundreds of examples of "government spending" that are wasteful. We pay the oil industry IIRC $66 billion annually in subsidies. Tax Credits and deductions (which are often used simply to cater to voters) are responsible for $1.1 trillion in lost revenue. Anywhere from $1-$3 trillion dollars of the current deficit is due to "temporary" bush tax cuts which are still in effect for 99.5% of the population.
The housing market currently has a large amount of surplus supply, this obviously decreases housing prices, so why do we need a "mortgage deduction"? (which is advertised as something that was implemented to increase demand)
Food stamps are the least of our problems. There is a diminishing return in payments for additional kids. Having more kids doesn't give one more food stamps per family member. It actually decreases IIRC after 2 kids. The majority are recipients are White and they are employed. I believe IIRC the average "payout" is around $180.00 a month.
There are lots of "side effects" that are ignored if they were eliminated, specifically crime. If people (yes some of them are lazy and stupid) can't feed their families they are going to find a way to make money. Foodstamps are a convenient way to keep "poor" people from breaking into your car or shop-lifting. When people break into your car, they not only effect your well being, but they ended going to jail and cost tax payers thousands of dollars a month.
I am sure there is waste and it is probably too easy to get foodstamps, but the idea that everyone on foodstamps wakes up a 2 in the afternoon and takes their Cadillac Escalade to pick up lobsters and Filet Mignon is embarrassingly ignorant. Yet there are people on this board that are stupid and gullible enough to believe that this is the norm and not the exception.
Everyone hates paying taxes, and hates borrowing from China, yet no one is willing to make sacrifices and cuts to their "entitlements' Lets just blame a $75 billion foodstamp program for the $16 trillion deficit.
So, what about the people who want to work and can't find jobs anywhere?
Those people deserve money just as I did, but there has to be a way to track effort and it starts with a system that employers can enter you SS# into a database saying you applied for X-job. If you're applying and not getting hired you should get relief.
I own around 100 rental properties. About 65 of them have renters on govt subsidy. I also manage, maintain etc the properties so I am in it every day. I don't wear a suit and sit on an office and never see the people or properties so I have a pretty good idea of how it works. Of my 65 or so renters about 75% are on the program because they choose to let the govt take care of them. They are perfectly capable of getting a job but don't. I call them professional TV watchers. So they get their rent paid and possibly some utilities depending on their situation. They also get food stamps and other benefits. By the way if they have another baby they can get a house with more bedrooms. So why not have more kids I love it because the govt check is always there on the 1st and it never bounces(not yet).
The only defense they have ,but none of them realize, is that the system is set up to keep them dependent on the govt. here's why. If an unemployed person on subsidy gets a job for $8 an hour for 25 hours a week, that is $800 month. Their part of the rent they are responsible for will go from 0 to about 350 a month. So if you take the $800 -taxes that's about 700. They pay 350 in rent plus lose the utility subsidy and some food stamps,etc. they are essentially working for next to nothing. So why would they work. I several renters on subsidy that bust their ass working 40+ hours/wk and get nowhere. I tell my wife they aren't smart enough to realize if they just stayed in bed their life would be easier
I always thought if the average American do gooder worked with me for a week , they would have a much different view on helping people. Most people don't need a hand , they need kicked in the ass and told to get their shit together
I drive by 10 places a day that are hiring. You may have to work 2 jobs to make it but you can find work
Get further their education or get licensed in a profession.
If getting a job for minimum wage doesn't bring in any more money that government subsidies, then how will kicking people in the ass telling them to get their shit together help?
You are correct in that there are much bigger problems than food stamps as far as hand outs go
If we're assuming these people are already poor, how do they afford to get that education or training?
Also, your point continues to step around the issue that these jobs still have to be worked. People can move up and move on but those jobs still exist. They aren't going anywhere.
This post was edited by sf2k4 14 months ago
I think you just helped make everyone's point itt.
No I did not lose a sig bet, but I am really really really ridiculously good looking.
Interesting point, but we are talking about Food stamps.
Is this a HUD thing?
Whats the name of the government program?
I agree that a kick in the ass is better than a hand in many of these cases.
It's like patenting. If your kid never has consequences why would they change behavior. If the govt allows you to be a zero why aspire to be more. If the govt would "reward " those who work low pay jobs with subsidy and take it from those who don't maybe the behavior changes.
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