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Option two doesn't seem that bad. Boise is gonna do well and Nevada isn't bad either. Hawaii IMO is a sleeping giant. I mean what recruit wouldn't want to go to Hawaii for four years and compete for a bcs/rose bowl title?
The PAC12 is definitely in a bind there.
They really need to get the Big12 schools to jump, but I'm not sure they can accomplish that. Will be interesting to see what happens. We almost know something has to.
I think the big 12 survives with the new sec deal.
Yeah. Granted I think all these teams need some help, but it would give the PAC 12 4 flagships schools in some growing states. Hawaii would be a big piece and I actually think is the most likely because they could provide a gateway to the Pacific Rim, something I know Larry Scott has eyes on.
I think the Big12 survives, but in what form. It could still look a lot different if the PAC12 makes a power move. Right now, the Big12 looks to be in good shape, but a conference that includes California and Texas could make a big enough offer that Texas and OU may not be able to turn them down as well. The determining factor will be if the PAC12 is willing to make the kind of changes that Texas will want to see. At the moment, I say no, but when it comes down to $$$, it could also be their best move and more beneficial for all parties.
I could see a 16 team PAC12 that includes Texas, OU, Okie St, and either Boise, UNLV, or Nevada....leaving Texas Tech out.
That would leave TT, Baylor, WVU, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, and TCU as current Big12 members. Not sure what direction that would take them then or if that would be an attractive enough group to still bring in FSU, Clemson, Miami, Ga Tech, or any of the North Carolina schools. That would still leave them searching for a couple of more schools.....maybe BYU would be one at that point.
Not saying that exactly happens, but I think we are still in for more of a shake up than just adding teams and dissolving the ACC as it appears now.
The Big12 stabilized themselves somewhat, but there are still 3 conferences that are ahead of the pack at the moment in the SEC, B1G, and PAC12 as far as stability and what there is to offer moving forward.
Just a thought.
I am of the thinking that Hawaii brings nothing. If the PAC12 wants to get involved in the Pacific Rim, it needs to do so the way USC has and set up camps and bring in those for the Olympis sports and allow that to slowly develop interest in other "American" sports like football and basketball. They really have no competition in that area and Hawaii isn't going to all of a sudden spark everyone's interest, IMO.
The big issue is that the main players here, China and Japan (China especially) already make in too lucrative for those athletes and their families to stay home and train. Why would they give up the houses and $$ their families are being given for having a son or daughter in their programs in exchange for that same child just getting an education for free?
You get it. USC started a class for foreign students, called something like American Football 101 (can't remember the real name) which teaches the new foreign students fundamentals of CFB, the culture of American football, and it's importance on campus. Frankie Telfort taught the class.
Our foreign students return home with a strong connection to the university - they are as much Trojans as those here, because of them, we have that presence in Asia. They will tune in to watch USC athletes compete. If you look at the list of Olympic athletes who attended USC, gone home to represent their countries (and trained there), you see a significant amount of athletes that placed education before the eventual financial benefits back home.
The university has put on a full-court press...
See how the University of Southern California is seizing the opportunity to boost its already robust global reach as the world shifts to the Pacific Century.
Learn more about the University of Southern California: http://www.usc.edu
Learn more about globalization at USC: http://globalization.usc.edu/
(Video created by USC University Communications; directed by Jill Aske, USC School of Cinematic Arts MFA '01; edited by Kevin R. Thompson, USC School of Cinematic Arts MFA '07.)
This post was edited by usctrojan1 16 months ago
"Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil
Hawaii is still something I could see Larry Scott going for, but you bring up good points
I could too, USC loves to schedule Hawaii for several reasons...it's a great trip for the fans, players and our marching band. also, to continue our visibility on the Islands. USC has a strong Poly presence on our football team and our campus, from Somoa to Tonga and Hawaii - we love our Poly players, and they bring so much to our cultural diversity. If you walk around USC on game day, you smell the great smells of the Islands cooking. I used to tailgate by Troy Polamalu's aunt and uncle, and the rest of the families of our Poly defensive players..the most wonderful people in the world - gentle and loving off the field, and warrior on it.
I've read where some of the fans out of the SEC have mocked Coach Orgeron about the shirt ripping and chanting while in TN...actually, he learned it from his time at USC, Coach Polamalu and our Poly players...it's part of their war chant and culture. They don't take too kindly mocking that tradition. We respect it and have embraced it.
Any talk of the Big 12 dropping Iowa State?
Can they really afford to drop anyone at this point?
I just find it comical on the opinions expressed.
BYU is too different to join the Pac12, but schools from the Pacific Rim for Olympic Sports - ie China, Japan, Singapore are ok????
BYU is out; but Bejing University, ND, and Utah are ok??? Prejudice is alive & well in the P12.
I'm beginning to think that gtownreb is on to something......
- Short Term - ACC absorbed by B1G, SEC, B12
- Long Term - Attractive B12, Pac12 schools absorbed by B1G & SEC.
The 2 remaining conferences (associations) merge like AFL & NFL.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Posas14 16 months ago
Are you that simple that you fail to grasp the discussion???? It's not foreign universities we are attempting to bring into the conference, , but the large group of alumni from PAC universities that follow Olympic sports, and the viewing audience they bring with them. Stupid spin.
Also, you do understand that Utah isn't a religious school, right?
Well it ain't gonna be Fresno State.
U of Utah's student population is between 40-60% mormon, despite no official affiliation with LDS -- it's pretty mormon. The school was originally founded by Brigham Young. Most (if not all) of it's presidents have been LDS members.
"The University of Utah Presidents includes all sixteen men who served as president of the University of Utah or its predecessor the University of Deseret, which was founded in 1850 just a few years after the Mormon Pioneers arrived in the Salt Lake Valley."
If you want to expand P12's appeal internationally, I can't think of better global marketers than the mormons.
In any case, if the Pac12 would welcome ND, they should be willing to welcome BYU.
Since 62% of the population in Utah is Mormon and 86% of Utah's students come from Utah, of course there is a large % of Mormons in schools there. I am sure you'd find the same at Utah St and Weber St and any other public University.
As you said, there is no affiliation with any religion. Saying they are a Mormon school is like saying Alabama is a Christian University because most of the school has students that are Christian when it's not.
The issue with BYU joining the PAC12 is that BYU will not compete in any sport on Sunday and most conferences don't want to deal with that unless they have to. Since Utah has no affiliation with the Mormon religion, they do play sports on Sunday. One day the positives of having BYU could outweigh that negative for a major conference, but I have my doubts.
Surely you grasp the larger national appeal of Notre Dame over BYU. You seem smart enough to grasp that. The difference is vast.
This post was edited by BetterOff 16 months ago
I was reacting to 2 comments in previous posts from different people that I thought were nonsense:
"As far as religious schools...don't think for a moment that the schools up north would not jump on accepting Notre Dame if there was any way in hell for it to happen. I think the difference is...they would block the ultra conservative religious schools. Moron, Southern Baptist..etc."
"The mentality there is different....they don't think the same as you or I." (In reference to Mormons)
My point was that this basic mindset, apparently aligned with Pac12 Presidents, is nonsense. If the P12 is to grow & thrive, they will need to bend in their collective mindset.
Pointing out Utah as mostly Mormon (which it is) was to illustrate the point that they've already gone there to an extent with the Utes.
Finally, the question isn't who you'd invite based on market appeal ND or BYU.......BYU is clearly better than the other schools on the list.
If no religious-based schools in the P12 is the "rule," why is ND ok? And if ND is ok from a religious standpoint, why isn't BYU?
If posed with a choice between ND and BYU, the obvious choice is ND due to market appeal. BUT, BYU is MUCH Better than the other options: New Mexico, UTEP, Fresno St, Houston, Rice, Air Force, etc.
Edit - I was not aware of the BYU Sunday scheduling problem. In that case, I'd say that BYU probably needs to bend if they want in.
You're also basing your premise that New Mexico, UTEP, FSUw, Houston, etc, are what the Pac is actually looking at. No one really knows if more expansion is on the way, and if it is then what schools the PAC is targeting. It's all fan speculation throwing out names at this point.
IMO, the B12 will be much harder to raid now than a few years ago. Mostly because of the a) Grant of Rights agreement they've instituted, and b) likelihood that they solidify their eastern presence.
Assuming the GOR holds, any B12 school that leaves would not own their TV rights for 13 years after leaving. So that school, hypothetically in the PAC, would pay 100% of their TV revenue to the B12 conference.
That reality, combined with the bowl tie-ins with the SEC, makes me believe that they're not leaving the B12. This is much different than the ACC exit fee, which is FIXED & can be paid with revenue from the new conference's TV deal.
The GOR is the primary reason I believe that PAC's targets will be more like Boise, Fresno, New Mexico, etc than Texas, Oklahoma, etc.
This is all true. Good points.
I still would think that secretly (if not publicly) the PAC12 will make a major push for Texas, OU, and OSU though. They kind of have to at this point based on what their other options are. I think they have a less than 50% shot at it working of course, but they have to try, IMO.
Of course, things can change in a heartbeat with the instability that the Big12 has had recently. It looks much more likely that they are going to stick together now than it did last year or the year before, but who would have thought they would have ever let Nebraska get out? Personally, I think it will still shape up on being a bad move by both parties down the road somehow.
Ultimately, I think we need to think about where we'll be in 20 years. If we can agree on that, then it's just the path that needs to be filled in. Forget about what the conferences are called or what they have been, and consider what they can be..
I believe that this is the direction that football schools want (TX, OU, USC, Oregon, FSU, etc) - as do Mike Slive and Jim Delaney. I also believe that this is what the NCAA (Emmert & Ray), and Tobacco Road (UNC, etc) are fighting against.
Big time football schools will dis-associate from NCAA. These schools will compensate scholarship athletes across all sports (Title IX) beyond what they compensated today. This will be somewhere between 60 & 80 schools. TV/media will fund this new model.
The path -
Will consist of consolidation of the current big 5 conferences, with short, medium, and long term steps to get there. A number of the steps have already begun, though it seems that the PAC has gotten cold feet in the past year.
Short term (3-7 years)
The conference currently known as the ACC will merge with the other conferences. Together with other conferences, will create regional divisions within. These divisions will hold some traditional ACC rivals, but also create some new match-ups. (ie B12 East, B10 East). SEC will grab a NC and VA school.
The ties between B12 and SEC will strengthen, as will B1G and PAC. Culturally and academically these are the obvious best fits.
The preliminary steps in this direction is the annual B12/SEC game in New Orleans, and the B1G / PAC regular season match-ups. The B1G/PAC games have been cancelled for now (see cold feet comment), but the long term IMO is still in this direction. No need to look past AAU membership or the comments above on cultural/religious divide to grasp this.
Medium Term (8-12 years)
The ties between conferences become even closer, ultimately merging into 2 associations ( B1G PAC & SEC B12). Due to scheduling, there is little if any OOC play beyond the partnerships mentioned above. A bit like MLB before interleague play - but not completely. If you really think about it, there is little regular season play between SEC, B10, P12, B12 even now.
This will feed a playoff system similar to the NFL. The negotiation of the TV rights to the playoffs will lead (has already) to the 2 conferences to work together. This partnership will ultimately lead to a complete merger...which is the 'long term' state.
This is where you may see some swapping. Will Texas, Mizzou, Florida, ND, BYU, Kansas, USC want to be in the B1G PAC or the SEC B12?
Long Term (12+ years)
The remaining super conferences merge into one regulatory body. Delivery of content will be split among ABC/ESPN, Fox, and CBS -- possibly Comcast / NBC (If all of these companies exist in 12 + years).
This post was edited by Posas14 16 months ago
I think your long term end is probably where we get one day unless something drastic happens. Your ways may differ, but where we get is probably about what you said.
Intelligent people knew the BCS would lead to a playoff and now a 4 game playoff will lead to expanded playoffs. Eventually schools will want to make things uniform and easy which being a part of the NCAA will not allow.
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