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Some say Wilt FWIW
7 foot black dude with like a 35+ inch vertical playing against a bunch of white guys? Don't think so.
"A good burn is like good sex. It's simple, to the point, and leaves your victim totally destroyed."--Kenny Drebsen
That's the problem.
You didn't read what I posted--hence you think I repeatedly posted MJ is GOAT when I didn't, and anyone speaking truth you don't like is a Stan
No it was you repeatedly bringing up the fact that Jordan was better than Kobe during his career (which was NEVER in question) that threw me off.
Obviously his numbers are going to be better for one he takes a lot more shots than Shaq and number 2 the other team had to focus their entire defense on guarding Shaq, playing guard with Shaq on your team is the easiest thing to do in the world. For example, a Shaq past his prime was doubled in the finals and Dwayne Wade had the best games of his life, Wade has not ever come close to those numbers in the Finals w/o Shaq or playoffs..
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by jmsmooth33 16 months ago
I think it's Lebron and don't bring up the rings. Rings don't mean shit in team sports.
fsufsu said... I've got about 10 great stories on Lane but all you need to know is he will never be a loser, that's for sure.
WTF are you talking about, Bill Russell is the greatest winner in the history of sports he did everything right, the most beloved teammate of all-time. He was a basketball genius it's no secret he won at every level of his life..
MJ would make Lechoke his lil biotch, lechoke got shut down by jason kidd and sean marion lmaoo, imagine those two guys shutting down MJ are you kidding me? MJ has the heart of a lion the killer instinct the most clutch player in the history of sports, while lechoke can't even beat the Dallas Mavericks, My godd...
I think you guys are blind to your own self-interests. You are looking at things subjectively, whereas I'm looking at them objectively. Big difference.
You're saying that players have not gotten better? Bigger? Stronger? Better trainers? Better strength coaches? Better sports psychologists?
You guys are the same people that when I said in 94 the rest of the world is catching up to us in basketball and scoffed at the notion. Face it. Teams and athletes get better with time. Jordan is NOT the greatest ever. He was for his era.
Rings mean NOTHING in team sports. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you win a championship in tennis or golf, yes, you HAVE to be compared to others.
You can not fault Ted Williams, Earl Campbell, Dan Marino, Barry Sanders, Ichiro Suzuki for playing on bad teams. These guys are some of the best that EVER played the game and came back with zero rings. You have to have a solid TEAM to win it.
Magic, yeah he had nobody. Jordan? Just a top 50 and the greatest rebounder in the history (and post defender) of the NBA. Bird, the front line. Jeter, the core four. Montana, the best receiver in the history of football (by my standards Megatron MAY be better) I say may because of the rule changes. Yes, there have been some in basketball, but like all sports, it's due to money and money only.
Everybody looks, few see.
Open your eyes.
Obviously you can't win a title with a bunch of scrubs, this post is a huge fail for one Rodman only was a part of 3 of MJ's titles and he was 34 years old, MJ eviscerated every 1 in his path and left no doubt who the best NBA player was for his prime he also scored 50 plus points in 6 NBA playoff games something Lebron has never done. Lebron absolutely froze in the biggest finals of his life he wanted no part of the ball and folded like a deck of cards. The NBA is 100x more soft than it was when MJ played and the rule change, MJ would average 50 points in today's NBA and make Lebron his biotch, Highes point average in the playoffs, highest average career NBA Finals history, the most dominant athlete of all-time, never lost a NBA Finals. Is responisble for destroying Clyde Drexler's career, ending the bad boy Pistons, ending showtime lakers, the reason barkely has never won a ring, killing the NEw york knicks..
This post was edited by jmsmooth33 16 months ago
The only people that think Kobe is in the same world as Jordan are people who never got to watch Jordan's entire career or Laker fanboys. Only explanation.
You're so right. The league is a scoring league now. Kobe would shit his pants if he played the Pistons from the 80's early 90's.
So you're telling me that Paxson and Kerr couldn't shoot? You're telling me that Pippen was not a good player? You're telling me that Grant, Longley and Cartwright couldn't defend in the post?
I'm sure that you have YEARS of basketball coaching that allow you to make these assessments.
You're saying that a corvette in 1975 would outrace one today, a burger in the 80's is better than today and computers worked faster in the 90's.
Jordan was great for his era and your comparison if they played each other is a moot point. You have a time machine, bro?
Best player I ever saw in my life ( i'm old enough to have seen the Iceman play) was Lloyd Daniels. He was Magic Johnson with Larry Bird's jumpshot and faster than both of them. I want you to imagine that for a....while. I thought things he did were out of a Dr. Seuss movie. It wasn't even fair. His poor choices led him to a road that was a point of no return and we would be having an argument in Jordan's day who was the best.... Daniels or Jordan? We will never know.
This post was edited by CoachGomez214 16 months ago
I have no idea what cars and burgers have anything to do with basketball, if you do research and have read books you will realize that Pippen is the only player to be part of all MJ's titles thus meaning MJ had to adapt to new players all the time, if you read my post i said you can't win with a bunch of scrubs, those guys are ok players at best, the godfather is still the best movie of all-time and Jimi Hendrix is still the best guitarist of all-time, MJ averaged 42 points in a NBA finals series, highest career average points in playoff history career wise and also highest in one game 62 in the boston garden against Mchale, Bird, chief, dennis johnson, etcc. Bird described it as God disguised as Michael Jordan. MIchael Jordan is the GOAT and there's a reason why sportscentury named him the greatest athlete of all-time b/c he's the most clutch and best player in sports history..
It is, however, I don't think Kobe would. He's just a stronger guy than the average person that played back then. Kobe is more filled out than Jordan. Now does that make him tougher? No. However, having more mass helps.
I mean, Shaq never played against the bad boyz, but do you think he's backing down to Laimbeer, Mahorn or Spider Salley? I don't think so....
Shaq is one of the most dominant players in NBA history, Lebron was punk'd out by sean Marion imagine if joe dumars was beating him up and everytime he drove the lane he had mahorn or lambeer waiting for him lulz..
He was also 34 during the 96-97 season, and those stats are not advantageous to Kobe as the 97-98 season.
Pippen and Kerr missed significant portions of the 97-98 season and Jordan carried a championship team.
While all of your points are valid and true, my father said the same thing about guys like Dimaggio and Mantle.
Players get better, period. You think sampras is better than federer? Surely, you jest.
btw, everybody adapts to other players year in and year out. In fact, it is worse now than it was in Jordan's years. He had his sidekick Robin with him for all six rings. Now a guy like Kobe gets Shaq for 3, but has a 'new" Robin for the other three. Correct me if I'm wrong, but free agency seems more prevalent now than in yesteryears.
Hendrix isn't the greatest guitarist and the Godfather is not the best movie. Music and movies are ALL subjective to the person listening or watching. Stats and other variables do equate to judging whether a player is better than another.
Look, you say Jordan (and yes, you're in the majority) and I say Lebron (his career isn't over yet. what if he gets hurt tomorrow?) Then Jordan is CLEARLY better than him.... but shhhhhhhh....lots of time left for Mr. James.
THe FLU game where a legend became a God, Lebron came out of the finals last year for cramps, I have had the Flu and u don't even want to move let alone put the team on your back and lead them to victory.
The debacles that Kobe and Lebron have produced in deciding games is something that Michael just never did, with the possible exception of the Magic series after his unretirement.
Michael is the strongest minded and most clutch player I've ever seen. I won't say he is definitiely better than the guys who came before my lifetime, but he is better than anyone that has come since.
Kobe is the closest thing to him since, but Kobe basically is just doing an impression of him. A really good one, but just an impression.
If you had made a rational claim like "Rings aren't everything" or "Rings aren't the only thing" you'd probably come across as less of an idiot than claiming "Rings mean NOTHING!!!!!"
And when you start referencing in 2012 what you allegedly said to us in 1994, then you come across more like a disposable feminine cleansing product which might likely be used on a Summer's Eve.
This post was edited by ftlaudcock 16 months ago
Again, you're making comparisons that can't and won't happen. Are you trying to tell me that Dumars is quicker and stronger than Shawn Marion? Are you telling me that Laimbeer is more athletic than Dirk?
Again, think of the eras. Jordan jumped from the ft line in a dunk contest and people went nuts. Now guys like Blake Griffin and JR Smith look like they're jumping off a trampoline and people are like, "ho hum, that's what they do."
Guys are bigger, stronger, quicker, more athletic, taught the game at an earlier age, have specialists, are more flexible (greater range of motion promotes greater athlete) and better coaching.
Athletes get better. You're telling me that Jim Brown is a bigger, faster back than AP??? (I'm a HUGE Jim Brown fan btw)
A reasonable person can also say that playing alongside the most dominant and unstoppable player in the game, which Shaq was at the time, was a major assist to Kobe that Jordan never had.
This is true, but what about pippen, kerr, armstrong and paxson (not sure other than pip which ones were with him in the later years) to spread the perimeter and create driving lanes. Shaq actually clogs the middle up and kobe has to settle for mid range jumpers rather than taking it to the rim at times. If Shaq could step it back, then it becomes a moot point, but in my opinion, Jordan had easier driving lanes due to the shooters on his team.
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