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Not absurd, just free exchange of (human) capital.
Also, no evidence of heterogeneous societies being doomed to fail. The ones that have failed, failed because one segment of society was oppressed and revolted. But the US is a heterogeneous country and we have made out pretty well.
The US is a different animal though.
If you move to Germany, for instance, and become a citizen you will technically be German, but you won't actually be German. Even without being oppressed and even if they open their arms to you, you will always be an outsider. You will never have the same connection and appreciation of German culture and history as someone who is and whose family always has been of German descent.
Now multiply you by hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, and lets assume you are all from a completely foreign culture like the ME, and then look at this from the German point of view. Suddenly you have millions of people in your country who don't share the same love of it you natives have, who don't appreciate or much care for your traditions and history...add to that, that these people are the only growing segment of the population and at that trend your country will ultimately become theirs. Would feel kinda shitty don't you think?
The US doesn't have that same claim, immigrants coming here isn't an issue other than whatever problems come with language barriers etc. We are a country based on certain ideals, not ethnicity or centuries of tradition, so we are much better able to cope with change so long as those newcomers embrace America for what it is and the ideals on which it was founded.
It is becoming very clear that increasingly Europeans don't feel that way...nor should they, it is their land and always has been. This is going to cause problems, they aren't going to slip away quietly as no other native civilization would do.
Even if it doesn't cause problems it's sad to think about those ancient cultures coming to an end, imo.
True, it will be sad to see them go, but no part of you is a little excited to see what the next chapter in those cultures could be?
Not really no. I am not too thrilled about St. Paul's becoming a mosque or something like that. Europe has probably the most incredible and interesting history on the planet and much of it has been well preserved. It's sad that it is dying, imo.
How is that history dying? The history is there, it will always be there. But your history is only part of what you use to move forward and evolve. It's not an anchor.
True and true. But these are some of the oldest societies on earth and they are ignorantly wiping themselves out. It's sad to see. They spent centuries fighting to keep Europe European and now they are just letting it slip away.
Countries like Italy have always been pretty cosmopolitan. I think you are overstating the problem of immigrants assimilating.
I'll come right out and say it. You seem worried about Middle Easterners. I don't think the cultural issues you have with them will exist in 100+ years. They will eventually become more "western" as cultures continue to globalize
I'm not saying let's wipe any of these cultures off the face of the earth, but it's a little extreme to act like Europe is about to just become a suburb of Mecca. Hell, nearly ever European country has evolved in their own ways over the centuries. Basically every modernized nation has. Even America and look at how young we are. Compare France or England or Germany or any of them to what they were a century or more ago and it's plain to see they've all changed in their own ways. In another century they'll have evolved again, just like we will have, and I'm excited to see where that will lead (if I could live to see it of course).
Yeah, you'd think that about Italy. But on the immigration assimilation front, not so much. Italy is scary racist and completely stratified. Immigrants, while they're still coming, are marginalized beyond belief. I mean they still don't consider Sicilians altogether human, let alone Italian.
Things you have said that have no factual basis:
Homogeneous societies are the most stable
Free market and uncontrolled immigration do not go hand in hand
European countries have spent centuries fighting to keep Europe European
One of these is purely anecdotal but I read European press daily and I see stuff like this all the time.
Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a new survey reveals.
As new figures show from cities is rising, one Londoner writes a provocative personal piece about how immigration has drastically changed the borough where she has lived for 17 years
Damn you are stupid.
They evolved on their own though within the framework of their own society, this is evolving in a different way.
Personally, I view all of this as the very early beginnings of the evolution of a global culture. Even things like Europe "uniting" as the EU, to what little degree they did, was a step in the direction of globalization IMO.
IMO, the West is where globalization is taking place doesn't seem to be happening too any large extent anywhere else. I am not convinced that it is going to take hold the world over or that the rest of the World will be okay with becoming part of a Westernized global society.
I have a suspicion that after a generation or so of living in the UK or whatever country, the immigrants will mostly realize "Jeez, this kicks the shit out of Syria."
Combine that with better education (especially with women) and they will assimilate for the most part within a generation or two
And you make general statements not grounded in reality.
Technology and collaboration will be the major driving forces IMO if it is ever going to happen. The Internet has already blurred the lines of traditional business models; even on the small scale, using my industry as an example, it's no longer the "big boys" on Madison Ave. calling the shots in the advertising business. They're still there and doing good work, don't get me wrong, but now with the speed and instancy of the Internet, a small shop in Mobile, AL (Red Square is one of my favorite agencies in the U.S.) can land the "big fish" clients just as easily as anyone. It's moved the focus almost solely to quality of ideas and execution with much less of a focus on distance and "presence." Some agencies have decided to capitalize on this opportunity (my shop in Atlanta has clients in D.C. and Michigan as our biggest out of state locations) while others have decided to revamp communities and local sectors to a degree never before seen thanks to the ease and affordability of the Internet. It's when businesses and industries that can really thrive and grow in this medium go from instantly interacting with clients in L.A. form NYC to instantly interacting with clients in Paris from Seattle (which is already happening) that more and more people will want to see "barriers" broken down to really impede the collaboration process less and less. I honestly view cultural aspects as sort of a side-car passenger to the real driving force between globalization, which will be business. Fast, integrated, collaborative business.
What do you think the Reconquista and fighting Muslims in Western and Eastern Europe several times was about?
Homogeneous societies are more stable, not only a fact but common sense. Show me an example in which that is not the case.
And free markets have been around for awhile, but unfettered immigration hasn't. You can have a free market society with tight immigration.
Possibly. The problem is they seem to be increasingly marginalized by the native Europeans due to concern over their rapidly increasing numbers, as a result they don't embrace their new countries. Now it's easy to say well if you welcome them they will assimilate better which is true to an extent, except they are still a very different people and even if they accept democracy and democratic principles of life they will still affect major changes on centuries of European culture. Which the natives, rightfully I think, aren't too fond of.
It's a complicated issue and why I think mass immigration to historically inhabited lands is a bad idea in general. Middle Easterners would be none too pleased, rightfully so, if it was the other way around either.
It's definitely complicated to be sure. These are just my opinions, I have no basis for the predictions.
Believe me, no one hates social conservatism more than me and Muslims tend to be some of the worst. My hope is they all start speaking the native language, smoking pot, and muslim women starting wearing bikinis and graduating from college.
This post was edited by joetheogre 12 months ago
West Virginia? Appalachian mountains
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