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He's actually probably bad wrong about that. In my not-so-limited experience with friends and relatives coming out of the closet, every one of them was most worried about what dad would say. In almost every case, their family already knew and had already accepted them as they were. In the two cases I know of where the kid actually kept it from his/her parents (one of each), there was momentary insanity followed by enlightenment. You love your kids regardless, always, and for any reason. I know that all too well after some heartaches my daughter has put me through, but I love her just the same and so do all of the parents of all the gay people I know and we're talking about some serious backwoods, gay hating rednecks in some cases. Tunes change a lot when it is your child.
Long story short, he should go for it. Dad either knows already or will be cool with it in no time.
Science is inconclusive regarding what specific factor is most predominant.
Science is bullet-proof that choice is not that factor.
See my post above. I don't know any. Never have. I've seen fathers disown children who get strung out and I will argue that they can't change that either but I've never seen a father disown a gay son or daughter. I know it has happened somewhere but I haven't seen it.
I continue to not understand why people get so up in arms and insulted by gay men. Seriously, are some of you that insecure in your masculinity?
It doesn't make you a hypocrite. It makes you a bigot.
Yeah that whole freedom thing is overrated right?
'Cause I don't give a sh!t what someone else does in their free time. None of my damn business.
You're not a scientist are you? I can tell by the way you don't quite grasp the scientific method.
If science were rock solid that it isn't a choice, then by god, science is rock solid that people are born that way. Likewise, if science is inconclusive on whether or not people are born that way, science is going to be inconclusive on whether or not it's a choice.
But it's okay to legislate under the assumption that 100% of gay people choose to be so? 'Cause that's what just happened in North Carolina.
I appreciate your honest answer. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'd appreciate a little clarity on your first answer. Are you really saying that the only people entitled to their opinion are the ones who think gay marriage is right? Are you saying that homosexual beliefs are so important that they trump anyone else's beliefs? Is the issue important enough that you're willing to trample on so many? If so, why?
As to my second question, I suppose what I'm asking is what's the driving motivation to make the change? Financial benefits? To make the couple feel equal or somehow happier? B/c some folks just like to feel morally superior to others? Something else? Since the country is currently, generally, one that recognizes traditional marriage, I'm simply talking about changing the current laws.
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Not true. I wasn't straight when I was 3 months old. I was completely asexual. Then I turned, I don't know, 9 or 10, and started to realize that boobs are awesome.
Being a choice and being born that way aren't mutually exclusive.
Apparently you do. I could quote quite a few posts from TT alone that would prove differently.
That's the best way I can explain it the whole "freedom of religion". You are not free to take rights away from other people.
To make the couple feel happier and equal with other couples, and to eliminate discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Traditional under whose rules? Have you ever been to a Jewish wedding? Vastly different from a Christian wedding. Same with a Hindu one, a Buddhist one... and the rules for so are also. Hell, even Paganism has rules for their marriages. The United States, however, does not have an official religion (nor do we have a national language) and we cannot legislate on the basis of showing favoritism for one religion or the other. Is it about legal benefits? It would appear so. Christian churches don't conduct Jewish weddings, Jewish temples don't conduct Christian weddings, why shouldn't a U.S. court room conduct any and all of the above?
Oh, I'd love to hear this. Tell me how two men or two women doing whatever in the privacy of their own home has any influence on ANYONE else's free time. Your concept of "freedom" is a friggin' joke.
We're discussing what your friend should do and I gave you my opinion based on my personal experience. I think anecdotal evidence is about as valid as any evidence...you know, based on my personal experience and all. If I were in your shoes, I'd tell him to just do it.
I am late to the party and honestly do not want to read thru all these pages. I am good friends with several gay couples and from what I have been told they honestly could give two shits if their partnership is called "marriage". What they do fight for and believe that they have the right to is the legal benefits and rights afforded to married couples. I happen to agree with them.
This post was edited by mtreber1 2 years ago
I stand up for the rights of anyone I feel is being oppressed. Male, female, white, black, Christian, non-Christian, gay, straight, I don't care. I have no patience for bigotry.
This is sort of what I'm getting at. I think their motivations are emotional more so than practical and rational.
What's ironic is that, according to Christian teachings (the majority opinion ITT), marriage is simply a union between a man, a woman, and God. Government is never mentioned.
You really haven't come across as a joking kind of guy, so I didn't have any reason to believe that's what you were up to...you know, based on my personal experience.
In your mind, it probably is because you have no concept of freedom. To me, freedom means leave me and everyone else the hell alone and, by extention, I have to leave everyone alone too. That's freedom in it's purest sense. You got a better definition?
Nope, sounds good. So tell every religion to stay the hell out of the legal benefits side of spousal relations.
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