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Ohio St vacates 2010 wins

  • Can they still get the LOIC?

    Tressel just got pushed out in front of the truck....I don't think he is faultless, but I still have a hard time believing that at least Smith did not know what was going on.

    This post was edited by RicoX19 3 years ago

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  • jadennis said... (original post)

    I always find this take interesting. Do you believe they only won on the field because they cheated? Did their tattoos help them gain more yards? Did that signed pair of gold pants they gave away make a tackle?

    Breaking the rules is breaking the rules. But unless they paid the refs, allowed 27 year old men to pose as college players, or put exlax in the oppositions Gatorade, their rule breaking didn't actually help them beat anyone on the field. They still had to line up and play football. It didn't matter which of Pryor's 8 cars he drove that day, he still had to play the game just like everyone else.

    Also, someone alert Devidee that his team gave up the Sugar Bowl, something he assured would never happen.

    Tosu vacating these wins say otherwise.

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    In plenty of cases the NCAA expects a 2 for 1 penalty with respect to what violations had occurred. You can look at Michigan as an example; they cut twice the amount of practice time that the NCAA had determined they had gone over.

    Because OSU played 6 players (Tat-5 plus a new one) for an entire season that were known by Tressel to be ineligible, I think the NCAA will reduce the scholarships for OSU by 10-15 over the course of the next 3 years.

    OSU is hoping to avoid a bowl ban by forfeiting the Sugar Bowl. I think it is 50/50 whether or not that is going to work.

    you and you're damn 2 for 1 logic.

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    WolverineMack

    Murrdawg69 said... (original post)

    My bad man. Sorry about putting you in that category of m*chigan fans.

    but just out of curiousity, what makes you so sure we get leveled like USC? Besides the media doing a smear campaign, is there anything in the NOA that would suggest we get USC like punishments? I understand that more can be added if proven allegations arise (i.e. NOT the "Cargate" thing since it has been disproven), but based off what the NCAA has asked OSU to respond to, there is really nothing to suggest AT THIS POINT (key words) that OSU will get blasted.

    Also, if you think OSU is gonna get USC like punishment, what do you think UNC gets?...death penalty? There NOA was 26 pages, ours was 8. Ours didn't include coaches steering players towards agents and academic fraud (2 of the biggest no-no's).

    Anybody can answer this, cause i'm just curious. I know a lot of people WANT osu to get blasted, but is there a factual basis behind USC like punishment at this point?

    No harm done man. I'm just here to talk college football. No offense taken.

    I look at it from the "ineligible player" aspect. Cuz I thought thats how the NCAA always looked at it. (that may not be the case anymore) USC played with one (one that was caught) & you guys played with 5 minimum.

    I think NCAA should hammer UNC Really hard. Problem is- hasnt most of that came out already? And not much is being done to them? Which is part of the reason I think you guys could still get the proverbial "slap on the wrist" from the NCAA. Which I think is a total Joke. But I understand its quite possible, that's exactly what could happen.

    Can you admit that vacating 2010 wins means absolutely NOTHING when it comes down to it? Also- the 2yr probation is a joke also? Hell- we gave ourselves 2yrs worth of probation after not counting stretching as practice time!

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  • OG Cane 420 said... (original post)

    Can they still get the LOIC?

    Tressel just got pushed out in front of the truck....I don't think he is faultless, but I still have a hard time believing that at least Smith did not know what was going on.

    as of now, no.

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    ECU grad, tOSU fan for life. Father since 1/12/13.

  • The way Ohio State fans rationalize this, I don't know if it is sad or funny:

    http://cfbmeltdown.blogspot.com/2011/07/ohio-state-fans-react-to-self-imposed.html

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    In plenty of cases the NCAA expects a 2 for 1 penalty with respect to what violations had occurred. You can look at Michigan as an example; they cut twice the amount of practice time that the NCAA had determined they had gone over.

    Because OSU played 6 players (Tat-5 plus a new one) for an entire season that were known by Tressel to be ineligible, I think the NCAA will reduce the scholarships for OSU by 10-15 over the course of the next 3 years.

    OSU is hoping to avoid a bowl ban by forfeiting the Sugar Bowl. I think it is 50/50 whether or not that is going to work.

    I agree with this. I fully expect the NCAA to give us more than what we have self-imposed, but I do not think it will be USC like.

    I have said all along what I thought is fair: reduction of 2010, bowl ban in 2011, loss of 10 scholariships over the next 2 seasons, and probation for 2 years. This falls in line with your 2 for 1 deal.

  • Hm, so they're simply doing every meaningless thing they can to keep from getting actual punishment? Sounds like the OSU way.

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  • WolverineMack said... (original post)

    No harm done man. I'm just here to talk college football. No offense taken.

    I look at it from the "ineligible player" aspect. Cuz I thought thats how the NCAA always looked at it. (that may not be the case anymore) USC played with one (one that was caught) & you guys played with 5 minimum.

    I think NCAA should hammer UNC Really hard. Problem is- hasnt most of that came out already? And not much is being done to them? Which is part of the reason I think you guys could still get the proverbial "slap on the wrist" from the NCAA. Which I think is a total Joke. But I understand its quite possible, that's exactly what could happen.

    Can you admit that vacating 2010 wins means absolutely NOTHING when it comes down to it? Also- the 2yr probation is a joke also? Hell- we gave ourselves 2yrs worth of probation after not counting stretching as practice time!

    the 2 years probation is a joke. Hell, 5 years of probation would have been a joke. Probation in NCAA terms means nothing unless Luke lies about Braxton Millers eligibilty next year.

    I disagree with the vacating of wins. Not sure if this has ever happened before for an OSU/Mich game, but when my grandkids are arguing over OSU/Mich things like we do sometimes, the all-time record will be one less win for OSU, plus it's a long-time stain on the program. Hell, it could be a 30 for 30 episode one day. Losing an entire season (especially one where you beat m*chigan, win your 6th straight big10 title--tying our own record, and get the SEC bowl monkey off our back-techinically its back on--by winning the Sugar Bowl) is a big deal. If we went 7-5 and lost to ya'll, then yeah it wouldn't matter, but i disagree since we had such a great season last year.

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    c_woodson

    purple_rein said... (original post)

    I agree with this. I fully expect the NCAA to give us more than what we have self-imposed, but I do not think it will be USC like.

    I have said all along what I thought is fair: reduction of 2010, bowl ban in 2011, loss of 10 scholariships over the next 2 seasons, and probation for 2 years. This falls in line with your 2 for 1 deal.

    Since OSU didn't self-impose the bowl ban, my guess is it will be put off to the 2012 season. The NCAA isn't going to ban OSU from a bowl game mid-season, which is when they will most likely come out with their ruling.

    The one thing that would scare me if I was an OSU fan is USC got 30 scholarships removed for using 1 ineligible player. Granted the amount of money was a lot more, but it still would make me nervous. I think something between 10-15 is fair.

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    norsk

    Dr Drunkenstein said... (original post)

    The way Ohio State fans rationalize this, I don't know if it is sad or funny:

    http://cfbmeltdown.blogspot.com/2011/07/ohio-state-fans-react-to-self-imposed.html

    You're posting a blog that has a grand total of two followers? That's some weighty material you got right there, bud.

    lol

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  • Murrdawg69 said... (original post)

    the 2 years probation is a joke. Hell, 5 years of probation would have been a joke. Probation in NCAA terms means nothing unless Luke lies about Braxton Millers eligibilty next year.

    I disagree with the vacating of wins. Not sure if this has ever happened before for an OSU/Mich game, but when my grandkids are arguing over OSU/Mich things like we do sometimes, the all-time record will be one less win for OSU, plus it's a long-time stain on the program. Hell, it could be a 30 for 30 episode one day. Losing an entire season (especially one where you beat m*chigan, win your 6th straight big10 title--tying our own record, and get the SEC bowl monkey off our back-techinically its back on--by winning the Sugar Bowl) is a big deal. If we went 7-5 and lost to ya'll, then yeah it wouldn't matter, but i disagree since we had such a great season last year.

    The problem is that this vacating of wins is only something that someone can use with the word "technically..." because every OSU fan will simply point to the "results on the field." In reality it doesn't mean squat.

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  • Rivver said... (original post)

    It's not that the tattoos, cars, whatever else helped them win, it's that the players who received extra benefits should have never been on the field to begin with.

    Well that part is obvious.

    It still doesn't change my point. Obviously if a player was ineligible, he shouldn't have been playing.

    But on the field, on that day, the Ohio State football team that took the field wasn't better because they got tattoos and cash. Same with Reggie Bush. USC wasn't a better team as a result of his parents living in a $500k house. That didn't help them beat everyone in 2004. Whether his parent lived in that house or on the moon, the team on the field was the team on the field. That's all I mean.

    This reasoning is in response to someone that acts like Ohio State ONLY won certain games BECAUSE they cheated. As if they were all on steroids, or were using 29 year old retired CFL players, or paying the refs or something. That doesn't make any sense to me. Nothing they did resulted in an on-field advantage.

    It's like saying a pitcher that smears vasoline on the ball and a pitcher wearing an illegal uniform (socks didn't match his teammates) are both cheaters. Well, yeah, they both broke rules, but one actually gained an advantage over the opposition, and one didn't.

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    WolverineMack

    jadennis said... (original post)

    I always find this take interesting. Do you believe they only won on the field because they cheated? Did their tattoos help them gain more yards? Did that signed pair of gold pants they gave away make a tackle?

    Breaking the rules is breaking the rules. But unless they paid the refs, allowed 27 year old men to pose as college players, or put exlax in the oppositions Gatorade, their rule breaking didn't actually help them beat anyone on the field. They still had to line up and play football. It didn't matter which of Pryor's 8 cars he drove that day, he still had to play the game just like everyone else.

    Also, someone alert Devidee that his team gave up the Sugar Bowl, something he assured would never happen.

    MY OPINION is:

    None of this crap helped them win games. I can totally agree with that. What happens on the field, is going to happen on the field. Thats why I think vacating 2010 wins doesnt mean $hit really.

    What all these extra "benefits" did do was: bring kids to OSU. Now- did it fill out thier whole roster? Likely not, but that shouldnt matter. Just as ONE example: If any of these benfits, were what brought Pryor to OSU- then point proven. Now- if you dont think thats what brought Pryor to OSU...then you can have your own opinion on that. It'd just be the wrong opinion.

    shrug

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  • Bucknuts

    devidee

    Ryan Mallett looks like a real winner today...

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    elite44

    afro

    Our quarterback does front flips, suck it.

  • psubills62 said... (original post)

    The problem is that this vacating of wins is only something that someone can use with the word "technically..." because every OSU fan will simply point to the "results on the field." In reality it doesn't mean squat.

    The results on the field don't mean squat now. Mty grandkids won't read in their "History of OSU football" book about winning 6 straight big10 titles 2 times in our history, or possibly winning a record 7th straight this year. Or maybe we lose to/don't play an SEC team in a bowl for 15 more years so the streak goes on. in 50 years, the 2010 season will be a big gap that either me or my kids will have to explain while shaking our head.

    I realize that it doesn't mean much right now because they were games from last season, but as far as history goes, this is a big deal.

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  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    Tosu vacating these wins say otherwise.

    I would say it says nothing of the sort. It says they broke NCAA rules that effect the amateur status of athletes. It says the coach lied about an investigation. A result is vacating wins. They didn't cheat in order to win the games. They broke rules that were instituted to govern behavior off the field. They didn't break the rules of a game in order to beat an opponent. That's all I mean.

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  • WolverineMack said... (original post)

    MY OPINION is:

    None of this crap helped them win games. I can totally agree with that. What happens on the field, is going to happen on the field. Thats why I think vacating 2010 wins doesnt mean $hit really.

    What all these extra "benefits" did do was: bring kids to OSU. Now- did it fill out thier whole roster? Likely not, but that shouldnt matter. Just as ONE example: If any of these benfits, were what brought Pryor to OSU- then point proven. Now- if you dont think thats what brought Pryor to OSU...then you can have your own opinion on that. It'd just be the wrong opinion.

    do you have any proof that these benefits were offered to players during the recruiting process? No...let's not resort to making stuff up cause it sounds good.

    Maybe he went to OSU cause he knew he'd have to practice so damn much at m*chigan....

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  • Murrdawg69 said... (original post)

    The results on the field don't mean squat now. Mty grandkids won't read in their "History of OSU football" book about winning 6 straight big10 titles 2 times in our history, or possibly winning a record 7th straight this year. Or maybe we lose to/don't play an SEC team in a bowl for 15 more years so the streak goes on. in 50 years, the 2010 season will be a big gap that either me or my kids will have to explain while shaking our head.

    I realize that it doesn't mean much right now because they were games from last season, but as far as history goes, this is a big deal.

    No, it's still not a big deal. The only difference this will make is when ESPN randomly references "streaks," they'll change a few numbers.

    I'm quite sure I saw a discussion recently about Auburn and national titles, and they talk about how they went undefeated like 50 years ago, but were on probation so weren't "technically" national champions.

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    devidee

    OG Cane 420 said... (original post)

    Way to try to change the subject not working

    Everyone knew the entire 2010 season was going to be vacated. The only game in question was the bowl game because the NCAA gave approval for all of those players to play. It's not a huge shock that OSU would voluntarily vacate that win as well though.

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  • jadennis said... (original post)

    Well that part is obvious.

    It still doesn't change my point. Obviously if a player was ineligible, he shouldn't have been playing.

    But on the field, on that day, the Ohio State football team that took the field wasn't better because they got tattoos and cash. Same with Reggie Bush. USC wasn't a better team as a result of his parents living in a $500k house. That didn't help them beat everyone in 2004. Whether his parent lived in that house or on the moon, the team on the field was the team on the field. That's all I mean.

    This reasoning is in response to someone that acts like Ohio State ONLY won certain games BECAUSE they cheated. As if they were all on steroids, or were using 29 year old retired CFL players, or paying the refs or something. That doesn't make any sense to me. Nothing they did resulted in an on-field advantage.

    It's like saying a pitcher that smears vasoline on the ball and a pitcher wearing an illegal uniform (socks didn't match his teammates) are both cheaters. Well, yeah, they both broke rules, but one actually gained an advantage over the opposition, and one didn't.

    It didn't change the results on the field, but the results on the field would have been different if those illegal players weren't on the field. Tosu cheated, the coach lied and they are finally paying for it.

  • WolverineMack said... (original post)

    MY OPINION is:

    None of this crap helped them win games. I can totally agree with that. What happens on the field, is going to happen on the field. Thats why I think vacating 2010 wins doesnt mean $hit really.

    What all these extra "benefits" did do was: bring kids to OSU. Now- did it fill out thier whole roster? Likely not, but that shouldnt matter. Just as ONE example: If any of these benfits, were what brought Pryor to OSU- then point proven. Now- if you dont think thats what brought Pryor to OSU...then you can have your own opinion on that. It'd just be the wrong opinion.

    shrug

    I agree with that, if a player is at that school to begin with strictly because of benefits, then yeah, they "cheated" to get the player that they then used to beat you on the field. That's cheating in the "wins and losses" sense. I agree.

    I'd be a little surprised though if that's why he went there. I kinda think he's likely the type that was going to make those same kind of decisions anywhere. There's no way to be sure, but I would guess that there are guys around Ann Arbor that are willing to pay for memorabilia, take kids to the country club, etc. For all we know Pryor would have gotten involved in the same kind of stuff at any other school. Because EVERY program larger than Wake Forest has these kinds of fans, boosters, vultures, etc.

    I find it a little hard to believe that part of the recruiting of Pryor was "come here, you can get cash for all kinds of things, and maybe even your own fleet of cars". I would imagine this is stuff he discovered after the fact. Just like Reggie Bush. He didn't go to USC because someone promised him his family could live in a giant house. He went there, became a star, then became a target for agents, then found himself in front of a lot of extra benefit opportunities. But that all happened after he committed, and after he became a star.

    This post was edited by jadennis 3 years ago

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  • OG Cane 420 said... (original post)

    They didn't cheat in order to win the games. That's all I mean.

    Tressel did by not reporting. Thats's all I mean.

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    WolverineMack

    Murrdawg69 said... (original post)

    do you have any proof that these benefits were offered to players during the recruiting process? No...let's not resort to making stuff up cause it sounds good.

    Maybe he went to OSU cause he knew he'd have to practice so damn much at m*chigan....

    No- obviously I dont have that proof. If that was readily available...you guys wouldnt even have a football team anymore. Or a basketball team, for that matter. Hell- neither would 3/4 of the country!

    There's been enough "rumors" that i've read, that have enabled me to come up with a very educated opinion. Now- if you wanna be blind to the rumors, thats fine by me. Maybe ask a PSU fan. Maybe now that this is all over- they will admit about the "bidding war" between the 2 of you guys for Pryors services. A war that Michigan stepped out of once realizing of such "war". I will even be willing to admit: its quite possible we would have been in on that "war" had Rodriguez not been in his 1st year at Michigan. Maybe if he already had some winning seasons under his belt or something. But we all know that wasnt going to happen, now dont we? Our new AD has come in and laid the hammer down tho. We have a tough time getting "questionable" kids cleared thru academics now. We didnt have that problem under the last AD.

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