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Gotta love elections bringing out the true colors. I've definitely lost some friends over the last few weeks for similar reasons.
Politics has become "my team" vs. "your team" and when "my team" loses, I root for "your team" to fail. The problem is, in either case, the "team" is America.
Amen. The polarity is insane. I even tried to talk to said "friend" and tried to tell him we're all Americans and we all want the best for this country, we just disagree on the means. You know "united we stand, divided we fall" type of stuff, and all he had to say was "I hope you go to hell".
That is not a negative on our society.
I hope you understand that their earnings are the same. In your scenerio, I am glad that the person took on the debt to better themself. It is a personal choice that should lead to a brighter future than they had before, and should lead to a brighter future for their children. Live within their means, pay off the debt.
Again, not the point. For some reason you refuse to concede that not everyone has an equal shot in America - some people start on 1st base, some on 2nd, some on 3rd. I just don't see how you can say things like: "You give those don't work to much credit, and don't give enough credit to those that work themself up the food chain" and not recognize that some people have to work an unbelievable amount just to get to the level someone else starts at.
The fact that you say things like "you really think people it is that difficult for people work their way up" as if it's all easy is just absurd. You have no concept of what it actually takes for some people to even work their way up to survival, much less outright success. You've based your entire beliefs about social mobility on your own very limited personal experience, and it's honestly saddening that you've existed in such a bubble.
I don't understand how folks can't have empathy for their fellow man/woman/American.
Not everybody is born under the same circumstance. I don't believe you take from one, to give to another to make it all even in your eyes. Work your way up, you can do that here in America. It isn't easy, hard work is involved, but you get back what you put into it.
Honestly, I can't believe you think it is a negative that I worked hard my entire life to give my children more than I had. That is good thing in my book, and I am teaching my children the same thing.
As for the bubble comment, life isn't all pixie dust anf fairy farts. I was in High School when my wife and I had our first child. I was married two weeks out of HS, my wife graduated HS married with a one year old child. We have had plenty of struggles in the last 17 years, but I am not going to bitch about them. Every struggle we had can be traced back through root cause as decisions we made. I don't expect someone else to level the playing field for me or my family, I will level it myself.
I don't know if this is directed at me, but I am going to assume that it is, at least indirectly.
Here is my take on it. I do care. That is why we adopted 3 children. As I said in another post, 2 of the children came from an abusive home. On top of that, we donate time and money to help others. What I don't want is the government deciding who I should or shouldn't be caring about.
Wasn't directed at you, I know you are a good person from previous posts on the homeboard and here on similar topics.
I've just dealt with people recently that believe that anyone who needs help from others or the government are "scum" and "leeches" no matter the circumstances.
This is nothing compared to 2000 and 2004.
Scored 4 touchdowns...in a single game. Polk High!
Understood. For the last week I have been telling people to vote, regardless of who they are voting for.
Here is the thing. I may say things that sound harsh and cold, but I know there has to be a middle ground between my "fend for yourself", and others "everything is free". People do need help, I recognize that. I want to help those that actually need it not those that don't need it but they live off of it.
It gets cloudy on how we determine who needs it, how much, how long...
Yet immigrants every day come from situations much worse and make a good living in America. It is idiotic to think that everyone should/could start on the same base. That is not what America is about. The important thing is that there are no walls that make it impossible to get from 1st base to 2nd base, etc.
Once again, in regards to the skyrocketing education costs, look no further than the gov involvement over the last 40+ years to "make it more affordable".
This post was edited by dpfenny 17 months ago
I just hope we still have OUR country in 4 years..
Don't Hate congratulate!
Immigrants coming every day and making a good living is without a doubt the exception, not the rule. For every immigrant success story, there are 50 day laborers still picking fruit for starvation wages.
All I can say is that if you truly, truly believe that there are no barriers to social mobility, you're delusional.
As for education costs, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying government involvement with education costs over the last 40 years is an example of the removal of barriers to social mobility?
How do you define "our" in this sentence? Who is "us"?
Look, we're going in circles. I'm not attacking your hard work to provide for your daughters, so please stop taking everything I say in that manner.
I'm saying that it's a very middle-class attitude to believe that we're all on a level playing field and anyone can "work your way up." For a large percentage of the people in the U.S., they don't "get back what they put into it." As an attorney, I work 60-80, sometimes 100 hours/week, and I'm very well-compensated for my work. While yes, I've put in a considerable amount of work to get to where I am today, I freely admit that there are millions of people who work longer hours, in more demanding jobs, and get paid a fraction of what I do. I have friends who worked just as hard as I did in every possible respect from day one, who aren't nearly as successful as I am, and conversely, I have some friends who are more successful than I am, and have put in less work.
As I pointed out in the New York Times article I cited a few pages back, the most accurate predictor of where you'll end up on the income scale is where you start, i.e. the income level in which you were raised. Personally, I don't think that's fair. That's not the land of opportunity. When the number-one predictor of future financial success is how much money your parents made, and not how hard you work, or the number of hours you put in at the job, something needs to change.
Now, you may or may not agree with that last point. You also may not feel any obligation to your fellow man, and if you want to adopt the "screw you, I got mine" attitude, that's your prerogative. Personally, I follow Carnegie's "Gospel of Wealth" - I believe it's my duty, as a successful citizen of the United States, to work towards ensuring that every other citizen has the same opportunities I had. If that's the main point of disagreement between you and I, so be it.
I never said there were no barriers. There are barriers for everyone, some more than others. As for my comment on education, I am simply stating that gov involvement is directly responsible for the idiotic rise in the cost of tuition. Not to change the subject but it is the same with healthcare.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by dpfenny 17 months ago
I'm going with White America
While I'll agree that certain government involvement is responsible for the rising costs of tuition, I won't go so far as to saying "directly" responsible. Regardless of how much interest-free student loan money the government makes available to private banks for lending, it's still on the educational institutions themselves to determine their tuition. So, while certain government policies are absolutely indirectly responsible for the rising cost of education, there's still always another player in between government policy and the actual cost of education.
That would be my guess. This is like every idiotic "Take Back America" slogan that politicians have been running on. Take back America? From who? The only people who can rationally be said to have "taken" some of America are the ever-increasing number of minorities in this country...
The answer to your question is, It will never stop.
Yes. Liberals get so much more bitter than Conservatives when they lose elections...
Both sides get bitter, just how it is. No need to say liberals are worse at it. When it's the party that disagrees with you spewing bitter nonsense, it's always gonna seem worse.
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