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The Official Michigan, MSU Thread (CLOSED)

  • Haha best comment I've ever seen from HC roflmao

  • SpartanTailgate


    My entire basis for thinking it is a sun belt dominated sport is going off a Rivals study looking for where all the talent out of high school that ends up going to the pros. The highest percentage is from the south and the LA/SD area in Cal.

    Ohio and Michigan have great talent, but not as much. Also, a challenge for the future for big 10 schools is with demographics in this country shifting people are jettisoning the midwest for the south and I think that is impacting the size of the Michigan talent pool.

    I've heard a lot of talk of the cycle, and I am on wait and see mode for a few things. One as xxmgobluexx and another Michigan poster pointed out that there was a huge oversigning advantage. No doubt that it was an advantage but they also have all of that talent in their back yard.The other is to see if the schools in the north can develop a pipeline into the south for talent. I think ND's move to the ACC is an effort to do just that.

    Our schools have tradition, academics and a large audience to offer. Time to go down there and start winning these kids over.

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  • SpartanTailgate


    Score predictions for the weekend?

    UM 34

    Iowa 10

    MSU 31

    Northwestern 21

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Everybody has agreed that there is more talent in sunbelt area, there is a larger pool of players to pull from. What I don't agree with you on is that the players are better. A great football player is going to be great regardless of where he is from in the nation. Once again though, there are more athletes in the south.

    There is enough talent outside of the sunbelt regions, evidenced by the large number of those kids that get offers from the sunbelt.

    I think at least 2 of the 3 undefeated teams (Oregon, ND, and KSU) will lose, allowing Bama to play for the championship. If that doesn't happen, then a non-sunbelt team will be winning a NC. There is an outside chance that we end up with 3 undefeated teams this year. 2 of the 3 mentioned and tOSU.

  • SpartanTailgate


    Uofm by 14

    Northwestern by 3.

    It's going to come down to Minnesota for a bowl. My buddy Jimmy Henry ( Minnesota 1997-2001 lb) is already giving me shit about that game.

    BTW rocky. You should hear what he says about being recruited out of Pershing by Saban and Robaire Smith and the crew as hosts actually telling recruits they don't want to play for Saban. You shake your head and laugh at the same time.

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  • you realize how long we kept Amaker around? We couldn't crack the tourney and every team ended up having 1 good player and bottom half Big Ten team. If by "got the wheels in motion", you mean did average to below average, then yes.

    You're right that he was classy and a good guy, but there's no comparison between Beilein and Amaker as far as proven track record of building programs.

  • I don't talk crap about Izzo because he's a great coach, but Amaker and Beilein are not in the same stratosphere as far as basketball coaches and anyone that says so is from another planet.

  • I saw some of the IU game too. They look very good. They were one of the best offensive teams in the country last year and they actually look better this year. And Yogi Ferrel (sp?) is as advertised. I am looking forward to playing them because I think it will be a wild game, but it's going to be a very hard team to beat even once let alone twice.

    People need to keep an eye on Iowa. They are young but seem to have all the pieces. And McCaffrey is a very good coach. I would not be at all surprised to see them finish ahead of Wisky and Minny in the B10 this year just behind the leader group (IU/UM/OSU/MSU). Wisky doesn't look good at all. They miss Jordan Taylor a ton and with Gasser out for the season they are going to struggle at the point all season. Haven't seen OSU play yet, but they have enough talent at every position to be a top 10 team. It's just a question of seeing them put it all together. Sully did a lot for them on both ends of the floor the past two seasons.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson 17 months ago

  • SpartanTailgate


    Think Northwestern gets it done? Wow.

    If there's a team outside of IU that MSU can pass on, it's Northwestern. Combine that with the OL coming off of its best game of the year and an extra week of preparation, and I think you see the best home offensive performance of the year.

    The D is a concern against essentially Nebraska Lite, but I wonder how much fatigue was a factor in that game (10th straight before the bye). Getting the OLBs/DEs a quarter step faster could be the difference. Then again, it'd help if they could correctly diagnose who has the ball first . . . lol cry

    On a non-scientific note, it's hard to imagine MD going winless at home in Big 10 play.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanTailgate


    Hardware, maybe it is because I live on the east coast and I see the headlines for Harvard's basketball team more than you guys but what Amaker has done at Harvard is nothing short of incredible. The ESPN article I linked above was right in saying he should of been in consideration for coach of the year for the job he did there. Not saying he should of won it, but his name should of been in the discussion.

    Prior to Amaker it was more propable that Harvard would put another president in the Whitehouse before it would put a team in the NCAA tournament. He's had them ranked in the top 25, he's made it to the tournament, he's beaten ranked teams and he's put a starting PG in the pros Jeremy Lin.

    Keep in mind he has done this without scholarships, and the players he recruits have to meet the incredibly high academic standards of Harvard University.

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  • I think the extra week of prep will really help MSU against NW. Colter and Mark gashed us on the edges with their option game and Siemien (sp?) threw extremely well when he was in the game. I think it will be close. If MSU runs for at least 150 yards, I think they win. If they rush for under 100 yards, I think they lose.

    My prediction ...

    Wisky 34
    OSU 31

    UM 31
    Iowa 12

    MSU 23
    IU 17

    This post was edited by MrWoodson 17 months ago

  • I live on the East Coast as well. It is incredible what Amaker has done there, no argument! He is doing great there for sure.

    The point I'm trying to highlight is that he didn't do ANY of that stuff at Michigan - that all happened at Harvard. Great for Harvard but there was no doubt he was not the guy for Michigan. Maybe he just works better at smaller, private schools.

    He was a below average coach at Michigan. His record was 43-53 in the Big Ten. I'll give him the probation years as a pass (even though he had Daniel Horton those first two years, who was the best player of Amaker's tenure, who Ellerbe brought in BTW), but we couldn't even dream of competing for an NCAA tournament during his tenure. I really liked him as a person and representative of our school, but he had plenty of time to build even a little momentum by the end of his tenure and other than Manny Harris (who was a one-man show and kind of an ass), we didn't have any.

    You say Amaker would've done better than Beilein against Ohio last year, but pointing out one game is being dumb:

    - Do you think Amaker would've done better than Izzo versus 7 seed UCLA in 2011 and MSU should hire Amaker when Izzo retires?
    - Do you think Nebraska should've kept Frank Solich because he is now doing well at Ohio?
    - Should the Browns have not fired Belichick because they should've known he was a Super Bowl coach 7 years later?
    - Would Amaker have beaten Tennessee by 30 and taken 1-seed Duke to the wire in 2011?

    No, Michigan did what they did because it wasn't working out for them. You can't use later results with other teams in other places at other times as justification that the guy that got fired would be doing fine at the same place.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by hardware_sushi 17 months ago

  • SpartanTailgate


    Wisky 21 OSU 27

    UM 28 Iowa 14

    My thoughts on the MSU vs. Northwestern game we'll need Conroy to be perfect.

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  • SpartanTailgate


    How is MSU going to be beat Indiana AND Northwestern in the same weekend panic panic panic

    I think you're right on the rushing yardage. Northwestern has a legit run D. I did like that Toussaint was able to break one (fumble aside); maybe Nick Hill builds off of his 2 carry day against Nebraska lol. I'm only half-joking, a speed option would be nice to have. Very glad to see the ground game look good vs. Nebraska; they don't have a great run D, but even IU was able to stymie Bell and Co. I think the interior of the OL is getting better, now that Treadwell and Allen are settled at LG and C. This 3 week period (Neb + Bye + Northwestern week) is the longest the any starting 5 combo have been able to play together this season for the MSU OL. That's just crazy.

    This post was edited by MalibuMan 17 months ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanTailgate


    I appreciate the thought out response. +1

    I think there's some truth to your argument re: "Maybe he just works better at smaller, private schools. "

    I actually think he works better on the E. Coast. He was considered a rising star at St. Johns.

    "I'll give him the probation years as a pass"

    He was on probation 5 of the 6 years he coached at Michigan. The facilities were in shambles as well. Maybe it was a bad fit for Amaker to be there, he might just be one of those coaches meant to be on the east coast. Maybe he'll end up at Temple, Vanderbilt someday.

    "You say Amaker would've done better than Beilein against Ohio last year, but pointing out one game is being dumb:" Never said that, and if I implied that that was an accident. I said he had the same record as Beilein in the tournament last year. Both went 0-1. I do think that Izzo given the same team as Beilein beats Ohio in round 1 of the tournament.

    "Do you think Amaker would've done better than Izzo versus 7 seed UCLA in 2011 and MSU should hire Amaker when Izzo retires?" No, and no. Izzo is a better coach than Amaker and Beilein. FYI, Izzo has always spoken highly of Amaker and said he's a great coach.

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  • SpartanTailgate


  • SpartanTailgate


    Posted this on tRCMB, and I thought it'd be an interesting topic on here. Basically, the BCS COULD be left with a top 14 that does not contain a diverse enough membership to allow all the BCS bowl spots to be filled under the existing rules:

    Here's the other thing to consider. You need to be in the top 14 to be eligible, but that glut of SEC teams is going to make it hard for the other conferences to have eligible teams. If Clemson and Stanford drop out (and Oregon State remains outside the top 14), who are your top 14 teams?

    Here are the 12 teams that are projected to finish somewhere in the top 14

    Oregon, ND, KSU, Bama, UGA, UF (at #6, they won't drop all the way out of the top 14 even with a lose to FSU), A&M, LSU, S.Car . . . . that's 9 teams right there (not in order necessarily). FSU would make 10. Oklahama 11. Nebraska is sitting at 14, so they'll make it in the top 14 if they win out, so that makes Team #12.

    Conference Breakdown of the known 12:

    Pac-12 - 1
    Independent - 1
    Big 10 - 1
    Big XII - 2
    ACC - 1
    SEC - 6

    [/b]The Pac-12, Big 10, Big XII, ACC and SEC auto Bids will come out of that group, plus ND leaving the remaining 3 options for an At Large to Be:[/b]

    Big XII - 1
    SEC - 5

    That Means the Final At Large Bid has to be in the Top 14 and NOT be a member of the Big XII or SEC

    Now look at the mix for the last 2 spots, with the problems for each:

    #11Clemson ACC - will likely lose to S. Car
    #13 Stanford Pac 12 - will likely lose to Oregon
    #15 Texas Big XII - could lose to KSU
    #16 Oregon State Pac -12 - should lose to Oregon
    #17 UCLA Pac-12- if beats USC, should lose to Oregon
    #18 USC Pac-12- if beats UCLA, could/should lose to ND and/or Oregon
    #19 Louisville Big East - Maybe, but is an auto-bid
    #20 La.Tech WAC - Maybe . . . but has to finish in the top 16 and better than any AQ champ if not in the top 14. Louisville winning out kills that chance.
    #21 Michigan Big 10- should lose to tOSU
    #22 Rutgers Big East - winner of Rutgers/Ville ends up with the auto bid and won't be an At-Large
    #23 Texas Tech Big XII - probably will lose to OK State
    #24 OK State Big XII - probably will lose to OK

    Tough stretches for the back end of the top 25; quite frankly if UM beats tOSU, they could very well be back in a BCS bowl for the 2nd straight year.

    The realistic problem I see is if UT beats KSU and ends up in the top 14. That would make 3 Big XII teams (KSU wouldn't drop out, nor would Oklahoma and UT would move in), 6 SEC teams, 1 Big 10, 1 ACC and 1 Pac-XII + ND in the top 13 . . . and #14 would probably end up being Louisville. You'd have your 6 auto-qualifiers + ND and an At-Large Big XII and SEC . . .but 1 spot remaining and no eligible teams left. La.Tech would be SOL by virtue of Louisville finishing ahead of them.

    Real problem ss that each of their remaining At Large options for the Pac-12 HAS to play Oregon if they suffer no more other Ls. Could a UCLA W over USC boost them high enough to where an Oregon L wouldn't hurt them? Maybe . . . but maybe not. CCG Losers rarely make BCS games.

    Just some food for thought.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MalibuMan 17 months ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Yeah, I effed up. I think I had IU on the brain from thinking about hoops. They look very good.

  • The BCS rules have a provision that allows them to go beyond the top 14 if that happens:

    If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

    Edit: This was supposed to be a response to Rocky.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson 17 months ago

  • SpartanTailgate


    Ahh, gotcha. Figured they had some sort of fail safe. I'd expect a Pac-12 team to qualify that way, if UM doesn't beat tOSU.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Which is exactly why we all need to be rooting for UM to beat OSU. Gotta keep up the B10's string of two BCS bids per year.

  • SpartanTailgate


    "I gotta be honest: I personally think he's an idiot," White said. "Since he's come in, I think he's done nothing but damage the game."

    This is the third time during Bettman's tenure there has been a lockout. The last time around, it ended up costing the entire 2004-05 season. "

    Harsh words for Gary Bettman from Ian White. I have to say I sort of agree with some of his remarks. Putting hockey in the south was a terrible idea IMO but I do believe that was started by the commissioner before him. Plus all of the realignment destroyed a lot of the great rivalries in the game. Hockey has done alright following the Mark Hollis model of putting the games in baseball stadiums/football stadiums but all of the lockouts are damaging.

    Will there be a season?

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  • I can understand that. I guess what I meant by "pass" that is he didn't have to absolutely make the tourney in my eyes. What he had time to do is start building recruiting, building wins, building student or fan following, getting publicity, creating excitement, building some sort of momentum as everyone knew 2 years, 1 year ahead of time when the probation would end. Sell that future.

    During his tenure, there were brief periods of slight excitement with long lulls of sharp disappointment and too-frequent embarrassing losses. I showed up at a game sophomore and junior years and got seats second row behind the bench. Crisler was old, but the crowd wasn't helping.

    I think this parallels the argument that "Beilein has new facilities so therefore he can now recruit better". Our facilities are beautiful and I no doubt agree they make things easier, but they just opened this year. He's been selling a vision, a future, but at the same time building his teams in the present. He randomly would beat Dukes and UCLAs in early December. That was exciting. Here were the records:

    Amaker: 11-18, 17-13, 23-11 NIT Champ, 13-18, 22-11 NIT Runner Up, 22-13 NIT 2nd Rd.

    Beilein: 10-22, 21-14 NIT 2nd Rd., 15-17, 21-14 NCAA 2nd Rd 2pt loss to Duke, 24-10 NCAA 1 RD

    Amaker's record isn't terrible, but it's not good either. I don't know if I'd call it a plateau, but we were a good NIT team 3 of his last 4 years and the other was a bad year. Crisler would've been a ghost town in his next year. Amaker weathered a storm but looking at Amaker's record, what Beilein has done, and then saying Amaker got a raw deal isn't exactly correct.

    Some fans were getting antsy about Beilein until he made the tourney. People wanted to make the NCAA tournament, not the NIT, and maybe Amaker just in a bad spot because we were ineligible for 5 of 6 years he was there.

    I don't think most M fans are saying Amaker sucked, but nobody was excited about the direction of the program. And it helps we really can't complain about the results at this point.