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They are respected? I guess you guys will have a top 5 D Line in the country then..Michigan was handled in the trenches last year by MSU and nothing points to the contrary yet
"If you're worried about Wolverine fans, just move to Pasadena. You'll never have to deal with 'em."
Also, you really need to stop comparing MSU to Michigan. Dantonio did not win 11 games his first year. Michigan is not the same situation as MSU. Michigan does not need to wait 3 or 4 years to build up talent to get to the level MSU is at now. Michigan is already there and always has been. RR just didn't know how to coach in the big ten.
Stars don't matter, but Maxwell is a former 4*, elite 11 recruit, he is already better than Cousins. No question marks for MSU this year.
well i will use your theory and say Bell averaged 2.9 yards per carry last year in the UM game while Baker was over 6. Baker is gone so unless Bell is much better this year I shouldn't be worried about MSU's run game.
I wouldn't say UM's D-line was 'handled' by MSU. Our Freshman OLB's and CB couldn't hold the perimeter allowing the speed of Baker outside, as well those quick flat passes to Martin. Bell didn't even average 3 yards a carry.
No one is saying that, at all. Could Maxwell be better? Sure. But don't act like MSU fans are saying that Maxwell being better is a sure bet. Unlike Michigan fans, we don't get a chub from 17 year olds with stars next to their names.
Idk about that. Like OPTP said, we haven't been able to move the ball on msu the last three years.
Everything is subject to a lot of variables right now and DL is an area that needs to step up, but let me try this.
The reasons Michigan fans have optimism about the DL:
1. Only one guy on the projected DL (BWC) was not a regular contributor last year. He contributed some, but not often. There is game experience there.
2. Ondre Pipkins was a 5 star to the reputedly most accurate recruiting site (Rivals) and he was hotly pursued by big name programs to the end. He has the size and talent to contribute this year and DL is not an overly complicated position.
3. As you know, Hoke, Mattison and Montgomery are all DL coaches by way of experience. If anybody can mold a two-star or walk-on guy into a productive player, it is this staff. Just like certain guys always do well with whatever QB you give them (Weis) or RB (Wisco's RB coach) or OL (see Wisco or Iowa), Michigan looks very, very likely to be able to do the same on the DL. You could see the change in BWC and the whole DL throughout last year...at the beginning of the year they looked like a weakness (carryover from GERG)...by the end of the year, they were a strength.
First six games of the year against a lot of inferior competition:
Martin (18 tackles, 0.5 sack)
Van Bergen (16 tackles, 1.0 sack)
Last six games of the year (MSU fell right in the middle and is omitted so we can look at the same number of games):
Martin (43 tackles, 3.0 sacks)
Van Bergen (26 tackles, 4.5 sacks)
and the second half of the season featured Michigan getting its first two safeties in who knows how long. (Heininger had a somwhat similar progression throughout the year, despite being a walk-on who previously played sparingly...10 tcks, zero sacks to 13 tcks, 1 sack - first full sack of his career).
Michigan clearly benefited from great DL coaching that began to pay dividends last year. Guys like BWC and Q. Washington may really benefit from the teaching, while young talent like Pipkins may be naturally better than anyone on the roster last year or this year.
Unless all 3 of those guys forgets how to coach fundamentals, I think UM will at least have a middle-of-the-road in the B10 DL and likely better than that. Considering the back 7 and the overall coaching job with the defense, the level of concern for the Michigan DL is not very high. (I am more worried about TWO OL going down early in the year before Kalis and Magnusson get in a groove.)
Brady came in and won 11 games right away. Dantonio only won 7, and the Wrs aren't bad. Gallon and Roundtree have been pretty good throughout their career.
Stealing Sparty's recruits and owning them on the field since 1898
Dude, they went from like the 100th ranked defense to inside the top 20. That is damn impressive.
I think most everyone thought UM would win close to that many games when Borges decided to abandon the pro style O and basically run a watered down version of RR's spread offense.. the PPG were the same as the last year of RR (34.2 vs 34.4), but UM also had 75 less yards per game..
The D improved for sure, but how much of that was from an underestimated easy schedule.. I mean UM only faced 3 B1G teams that went above 6-6 in the Reg Season (and went 1-2 in this games),
I have no reservations that the game in 2012 is going to be very competitive.. but until UM can show me they can 1- stop MSU's run game or 2- that Denard can actually play a decent game vs MSU, I don't see anything changing
I'm not talking about improving statistically, we were talking about the MSU-UM game.
This is a good post.
I like how in 2010 when you guys won 11 games with an easy schedule it was "MSU is back," and now when Michigan has an easy schedule it's "they got lucky."
Because that is the Spartan Super Bowl. Dantonio's record in that game is the main reason MSU fans love him. There is no "rest of the season" to MSU fans. But, it's that type of middle of the season apex that leads them to a couple crushing defeats each year.
Each coach improved their team by 3 regular season games.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
so you're not worried about Bell, even though he overtook Baker the latter half of the year as the premiere back because he averaged under 3 ypc on 7 carries in one game vs UM?? c'mon.. you can't really believe that.. if he had as many as Baker that game (26) he probably goes for over 200.. there's a season he overtook Baker a couple of games later for the rest of the year..
And it's not like Bell hasn't had any success vs UM.. in 2010, Bell had 7 carries for 78 yards or 11.1 yards per carry.. but I'm sure you will just say that doesn't matter because the D was so much better from 2010 to 2011..
Michigan can't stop Bell?
The RB who was able to run on UM is gone.
I fail to see what the 2 years under RR have to do with anything. Last year Borges was in his first year of trying to modify his offense to fit Denard. I expect it to be better this year.
Are you seriously going to try to pin a jump of over close to 100 spots nationally on schedule? Man Michigan couldn't stop Indiana and Umass in 2010. You got to be kidding.
It's Rocky's logic I am using. Take it up with him.
LOL when did anyone ever say MSU is "back" after 2010? I think Bama putting MSU in its place squandered any belief that MSU is back- and back to what? MSU's been a middle of the road team for the last 40+ years outside a couple seasons..
But MSU in 2010 and UM in 2011 are quite related if you ask me.. both had 8 home games, easier schedules.. now it's up to UM to prove 2011 wasn't a fluke
While you ignore the most wins in the Big Ten the past 4 years, the 5 straight bowl games, the Big Ten ship in 2010, the legends ship in 2011, and the respect and discipline being brought back to the program..
While beating your guy's ass is nice, it's not as special as it was back in the JLS and Bobby days.
And wasn't one of the main reasons UM fans ran Lloyd out of town was because he couldn't beat OSU?
Not sure what the difference is..
If your coaches don't beat your rival or are awful vs your rival, that for sure is going to have an impact on how the fan base reacts to him
This is MSU - UM game specific. Why omit those stats, when they're pretty much the only relevant ones? UM's DL was neutralized last year by what you're quick to call a poor OL. So, logically, UM's DL in '12 has to be better than it's DL in '11 to beat MSU in the trenches, and that assume that MSU's OL doesn't improve at all.
You're completely wrong about DT being an easy position for a true FR to play. OL, DL and QB are the positions where true FR struggle the most.
I think UM's DL is going to struggle this year. I could be wrong.
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