The Blue Board

We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

Boards ▾

The Blue Board

We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

The Green Board

Where the madness isn't just in March.

Reply

The Official Michigan State and Michigan Thread

  • Sparty isn't even the top 7 for Ondre Pipkins LOL. What happened to national recruiting? Oh wait he's from Saginaw it must not count.

  • Royal said... (original post)

    What makes you believe you won't be absolutely smoked? You are in a brand new system that has very little depth. Brady Hoke could be Bo reincarnated and he still wouldn't be able to make your defense respectable in one off season. There are fundamental flaws in personnel right now that need time to be fixed.

    He hasn't coached one game but a large chunk of your fan base seem to think the defense is WAY improved and your offense will be just as good as last year, even though your OC has said shotgun sets will be in the minority. If you remember last year, when we forced DRob to be a drop back passer and read a defense, he threw 3 picks.

    What is your evidence, besides blind hope, that makes you believe you'll be able to compete at a B1G championship level? I agree you'll be improved, but MSU is definitely playing at a very high level.

    That's all I have is hope, but it isn't blind hope. Hoke has shown he can coach, as has Borges, as has Mattison. The talent is there on both sides of the ball, the defense needs coaching and a better scheme, both of which is in place now. The offense will take advantage of the the skills of the players, Borges has stated that. Drob won't be sitting in a pocket, I guarantee that, he will rolling out making the D react to him, not the other way around.

    As for sparty, they have only played one game this year, and I wouldn't call it at a very high level.

    This post was edited by xxmgobluexx 3 years ago

  • NigelUno said... (original post)

    Michigan fans arrogant?

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

    At least sparty fans aren't arrogant about the last 3 years, they act like they have been there before.

    /sarcasm

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    At least sparty fans aren't arrogant about the last 3 years, they act like they have been there before.

    /sarcasm

    To be fair, most of us HAVEN'T been there before. Most message boarders are between 18-30, so many of us don't remember the '87 Rose Bowl or even the '90 championship. We get ripped on by UMers for not having a recent winning history, and then again for acting like we haven't had a recent winning history? Which is it?

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    That's all I have is hope, but it isn't blind hope. Hoke has shown he can coach, as has Borges, as has Mattison. The talent is there on both sides of the ball, the defense needs coaching and a better scheme, both of which is in place now. The offense will take advantage of the the skills of the players, Borges has stated that. Drob won't be sitting in a pocket, I guarantee that, he will rolling out making the D react to him, not the other way around.

    As for sparty, they have only played one game this year, and I wouldn't call it at a very high level.

    lol

    Defending Big Ten Champs vs. Hope

    Advantage: MSU

  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    At least sparty fans aren't arrogant about the last 3 years, they act like they have been there before.

    /sarcasm

    As opposed to the arrogant Michigan fans who have already forgotten the last 3 years.

  • NigelUno said... (original post)

    As opposed to the arrogant Michigan fans who have already forgotten the last 3 years.

    Those fans forgot as much as the the sparty fans have forgotton 67-31-5.

  • NigelUno said... (original post)

    lol

    Defending Big Ten Champs vs. Hope

    Advantage: MSU

    No more hope than the MSU fans hoping that they don't return to the same ol sparty of 6-7. Winning season streak of 1, congrats sparty on a program of sustained level.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by xxmgobluexx 3 years ago

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    To be fair, most of us HAVEN'T been there before. Most message boarders are between 18-30, so many of us don't remember the '87 Rose Bowl or even the '90 championship. We get ripped on by UMers for not having a recent winning history, and then again for acting like we haven't had a recent winning history? Which is it?

    The lack of being there before is one of the reasons there is a lack of respect. Sustain the success and it is earned.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    The lack of being there before is one of the reasons there is a lack of respect. Sustain the success and it is earned.

    No doubt. What irks us is that a lot of MSU fans feel that we're turning the corner and are poised for some sustained success, but that UM fans shoot down any notion of that ever happeneing.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Royal said... (original post)

    What makes you believe you won't be absolutely smoked? You are in a brand new system that has very little depth. Brady Hoke could be Bo reincarnated and he still wouldn't be able to make your defense respectable in one off season. There are fundamental flaws in personnel right now that need time to be fixed.

    He hasn't coached one game but a large chunk of your fan base seem to think the defense is WAY improved and your offense will be just as good as last year, even though your OC has said shotgun sets will be in the minority. If you remember last year, when we forced DRob to be a drop back passer and read a defense, he threw 3 picks.

    What is your evidence, besides blind hope, that makes you believe you'll be able to compete at a B1G championship level? I agree you'll be improved, but MSU is definitely playing at a very high level.

    *sigh* Let me address some of this.

    First, I don't believe we will get absolutely smoked because even with the product we've put on the field the past 3 years you haven't truly "smoked" us. However we're just getting into semantics there.

    There is no reason to believe that a defense cannot turn around and become respectable in a single off-season. I'm not making the claim we're going to have a top 10 defense, or anything even close to it. I do believe our defense will be far more respectable than it was last year though. We're returning pretty much everyone on the defensive side of the ball, and we have a Defensive Coordinator that isn't named Greg Robinson.... improvement is going to happen, and a "respectable defense" is without question not out of the realm of possibility.

    I'm also not following these "fundamental flaws in personnel" that' you're talking about... and I follow the team pretty freaking closely. So I am interested into what these flaws are that you accuse Michigan of having. (I'm assuming it's about the personnel we have that were recruited for the spread. Including a lot of smaller players on defense. )

    I also don't know too many Michigan fans who have come out and said they believe our offense will be just as good as last year. I don't doubt that some of our fans do believe that, but I'm not buying the "large chunk" claim really... seems more of a strawman than anything. Also our OC has never said that the shotgun will be the minority... in fact he's said that they'll use the shotgun more than any offensive team he's coached.

    I agree that MSU has the ability to be a very good team this year. And I agree that Michigan likely won't be as good overall this year than MSU. I also know that it doesn't really matter come kickoff.

    This post was edited by theyellow_dup 3 years ago

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    No doubt. What irks us is that a lot of MSU fans feel that we're turning the corner and are poised for some sustained success, but that UM fans shoot down any notion of that ever happeneing.

    You are one year removed from going 6 and 7 and with three breaks falling the other way, you could have easily had 5 losses last year. Calm the fuck down.

    “I am going to treat you all the same . . . Like Dogs.” - Bo

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    No doubt. What irks us is that a lot of MSU fans feel that we're turning the corner and are poised for some sustained success, but that UM fans shoot down any notion of that ever happeneing.


    That's life as a fan. Most MSU fans are going to be optimistic about MSU and their chances. Most Michigan fans are going to be pessimistic about them... vice versa is true too.

    MSU fans look at last season and see a Big 10 Championship and a Bowl game against one of the best 3 loss teams in the history of college football. Michigan fans look at your season and ponder who you really beat outside a really good Wisconsin team at home, and a few close calls throughout the season too.

  • Shondon said... (original post)

    Honestly I can say I've only been here a few months and while I refuse to post on another schools board, out of respect of course and a lot of my friends don't follow these boards I often tell them if you were to put the msu and um fanbase in a room and played either fight song you'd have the biggest brawl ever. Now I absolutely hate msu hate hate hate, I live in Lansing and all my life have been a UM fan never went played ball but not D1 now in my experience yes UM fans are pompous and a little arrogant but I could not imagine if the shoe were on the other foot as far as out records go I won't call it what it is bragging rights but it is.... I've met Izzo he's alright I've met Dantonio he's not so cool, actually worked at a place where I got to know Lou Ann and Roy pretty well Lou ann okay as for Roy I think they have a gag order on him cause he's such an ass.... Knowing both fans and Spartans better living in a sea of green I have to tell you, msu has the most homers who absolutely have no clue about sports their teams history and will berate a UM fan for showing pride and school colors, the games are the worst going to um big party students of both schools party together that would never happen on msu's campus. So I've rambled enough but with all this bein said we both as fans should be able to have civil hate filled conversations and stop spewing garbage on a regular basis can't we? I love info when it's good and hate personal banter and bashing of eachother. PS. Lou ann & Roy msu's president and her husband. 22's

    Holy crap! How many cups of coffee did you have before typing that stream of consciousness?

  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    The lack of being there before is one of the reasons there is a lack of respect. Sustain the success and it is earned.

    It's fortunate that MSU fans have Michigan fans around to tell them how to earn respect.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    *sigh* Let me address some of this.

    First, I don't believe we will get absolutely smoked because even with the product we've put on the field the past 3 years you haven't truly "smoked" us. However we're just getting into semantics there.

    There is no reason to believe that a defense cannot turn around and become respectable in a single off-season. I'm not making the claim we're going to have a top 10 defense, or anything even close to it. I do believe our defense will be far more respectable than it was last year though. We're returning pretty much everyone on the defensive side of the ball, and we have a Defensive Coordinator that isn't named Greg Robinson.... improvement is going to happen, and a "respectable defense" is without question not out of the realm of possibility.

    I'm also not following these "fundamental flaws in personnel" that' you're talking about... and I follow the team pretty freaking closely. So I am interested into what these flaws are that you accuse Michigan of having. (I'm assuming it's about the personnel we have that were recruited for the spread. Including a lot of smaller players on defense. )

    I also don't know too many Michigan fans who have come out and said they believe our offense will be just as good as last year. I don't doubt that some of our fans do believe that, but I'm not buying the "large chunk" claim really... seems more of a strawman than anything. Also our OC has never said that the shotgun will be the minority... in fact he's said that they'll use the shotgun more than any offensive team he's coached.

    I agree that MSU has the ability to be a very good team this year. And I agree that Michigan likely won't be as good overall this year than MSU. I also know that it doesn't really matter come kickoff.

    Here's the problem with semantics; I don't know what "respectable" means in terms of your defense, because that word has different meaning for both of us.

    I feel respectable is giving up approx. 350 yards/game on D and under 23 ppg. A respectable rush D keeps opposing rush Os under 4.0 YPC and a respectable pass D has no worse than a 1.5:1 TD to INT ratio. I care a little less about total passing yardage because so many spread teams skew the figures; a QB can throw for 275 yards on MSU, but if he throws 3 picks, 1 TD and the entire team runs for 50 yards and 20 carries, I'm feeling pretty decent about MSU's defensive performance.

    A "good" D is approaching the under 330 ypg and under 20 ppg. A good run D keeps opposing rush Os under 3.5 YPC and a good pass D has an approx. 1:1 TD/INT ratio or better.

    An elite D . . . at or under 310 ypg and at/under 17 ppg given up. Elite run D: 3.3 ypc or less. Elite pass D: More INTs than TDs given up.

    Those are my metrics, let me know what you think of them, where you'd tweak them, and then approximate where you expect UM to fall this year.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Damn....Pipkins eliminates MSU and Dodson gets offered by O$U. Bad day of recruiting in east Lansing! Don;t worry Coach D will find a couple of 2*'s and Coach them up!

    signature image signature image signature image
  • And you care why?shrug

    signature image
  • Ummm recruiting Board, Common Recruit, Michigan -MSU recruiting thread...stop me if you've heard this before.whistling

    signature image signature image signature image
  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Damn....Pipkins eliminates MSU and Dodson gets offered by O$U. Bad day of recruiting in east Lansing! Don;t worry Coach D will find a couple of 2*'s and Coach them up!

    Seems to have worked the last 3 years against the team in Ann Arbor.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Damn....Pipkins eliminates MSU and Dodson gets offered by O$U. Bad day of recruiting in east Lansing! Don;t worry Coach D will find a couple of 2*'s and Coach them up!

    I know this is a flame, but please realize that MD isn't taking a bunch of 2-stars. He's taking a group of 3-stars and coaching them up, with a few 2-stars sprinkled in. There are more 4-stars than 2-stars on our roster right now, so don't characterize it as "if MSU misses out on their high 4-star guys, they automatically just get 2-stars".

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • NigelUno said... (original post)

    Seems to have worked the last 3 years against the team in Ann Arbor.

    Yep, the last 3 years, across the rivalry as a whole, not so much for sparty. Keep banking on coaching up those 2-3 stars.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I know this is a flame, but please realize that MD isn't taking a bunch of 2-stars. He's taking a group of 3-stars and coaching them up, with a few 2-stars sprinkled in. There are more 4-stars than 2-stars on our roster right now, so don't characterize it as "if MSU misses out on their high 4-star guys, they automatically just get 2-stars".

    You're right...

    signature image signature image signature image
  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Damn....Pipkins eliminates MSU and Dodson gets offered by O$U. Bad day of recruiting in east Lansing! Don;t worry Coach D will find a couple of 2*'s and Coach them up!

    Don't worry, they are going national. A 3* from Texas is always better than a 4* in Michigan.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    Yep, the last 3 years, across the rivalry as a whole, not so much for sparty. Keep banking on coaching up those 2-3 stars.

    Last 3 classes:

    1 5 star

    17 4-stars

    9 2-stars

    MSU really hasn't taken a ton of 2-stars in recent years. MSU does take a lot of 3-stars, with a fair # of highly ranked guys, especially considering our perceived recruiting shortfalls.

    This year, we have 1 4-star and 4 3-stars according to 247, and 5 3-stars according to TOS. Are they elite prospects? No, though O'Connor and McGowan are pretty well respected talents. Are they 2-star MAC left-overs? Absolutely not. Can you win consistently with this type of recruiting? I think so, as long as the coaches are good.

    MSU doesn't have to outrecruit UM to hang with them. MSU just needs to stay in the overall ballpark. Unless Hoke and Co bring in 15+ 4-stars every class, I'm confident in MSU's 4-6 4 stars/class (average, last 3 years), along with a lot of 3-star guys. I don't consider those guys "reaches" or prospects that should have a hard time playing in the Big 10.

    I'm also not expecting MSU to measure up to the Bama's, Oklahoma's, and LSU's of the world until MSU recruits at that level. But Michigan? For the time being, MSU has the talent to handle the boys in blue.

    This post was edited by MalibuMan 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.