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The Official Michigan State and Michigan Thread

  • Geaux247

    LScootU

    devidee said... (original post)

    MSU claims 6 national titles. LSU only claims 3.

    Well we could claim more but we don't. We don't wanna hurt anybodies feelings.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Holy crap! I didn't realize MSU had that many! I guess that was a little before my time but still.

    MSU benefited from 2 great coaches; Biggie Munn (54-9-2, 2 NCs) and Duffy Daugherty (109-69-5, 4 NCs). After Duffy left in '72, the President decided to de-emphasize the athletic programs. With the up and coming Bo Schembechler, UM took control of the State and the rivalry from 1970's on.

    It wasn't until our current president was hired that the university itself took a big interest in the sports programs. Soon thereafter John L. Smith, he of the 22-26 record, was fired and Dantonio (33-18) was hired. Things have been on the uptick since. I really doubt MSU falls before the regular bowl game participant threshold, and I expect MSU to be a regular 8-4 team with several 10+ win seasons each decade (read, compete for conference champinoships every 3-4 years). That's the next step for the program to be stable.

    This post was edited by SpartanRocky 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • HuskersIllustrated

    Nosfera2son

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    MSU benefited from 2 great coaches; Biggie Munn (54-9-2, 2 NCs) and Duffy Daugherty (109-69-5, 4 NCs). After Duffy left in '72, the President decided to de-emphasize the athletic programs. With the up and coming Bo Schembechler, UM took control of the State and the rivalry from 1970 on.

    It wasn't until our current president was hired that the university itself took a big interest in the sports programs. Soon thereafter John L. Smith, he of the 22-26 record, was fired and Dantonio (33-18) was hired. Things have been on the uptick since. I really doubt MSU falls before the regular bowl game participant threshold, and I expect MSU to be a regular 8-4 team with several 10+ win seasons each decade (read, compete for conference champinoships every 3-4 years). That's the next step for the program to be stable.

    Nice! Thanks SR!

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    Feed me to the wolves, and I will return leader of the pack. #FreeDA

  • TheDude23 said... (original post)

    I don't see any way you extend the streak to 5 games. Michigan will beat you either this year or next year... leaning more towards next year.

    roflmao

    Wow I'm not a homer saying msu is going to win, but how the hell can you make a perdicition on a game 2 years from now?

    Rocky why are you even arguing with these feeble minded wolvies.

    This post was edited by RO DA BO63970 3 years ago

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  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I think 2012 will be very interesting; MSU's D should be its best in a very very long time, especially up the middle.

    The biggest ? to me is how Dennard adapts to Hoke's system. If he struggles, I think things will be tough for the next few years; Gardner is very inexperienced and Bellomy is a true frosh this year. Those options are not likely to be better than Shoelaces, and if he gets injured, watch out. That's all speculation of course.

    Keeping with this year, I think you guys go 7-5. I see your games vs. ND, Northwestern, MSU, Ohio State, Nebraska and Iowa as all being very tough, but I think you beat Northwestern. You should be the underdogs in the other 5 games.

    Looking at your schedule, you're lucky you don't have to play either PSU or Wisky this year and instead get IL and Purdue.

    My thoughts are that Denard will probably be playing hybrid qb/wr by his senior year. Lets see if Hoke sticks to his "recruiting" of Denard when he got hired.

    I think they will probably transition to Devin Gardner sooner than people may think. He is raw but will fit more of the pro-style passing attack than Denard. Probably will talk him into doing what would be better for a pro career (sort of like Randle El did when at IU).

    It will be a dogfight in 2012, but I think we come in with our best defense under Coach D and pull one out.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Wow I'm not a homer saying msu is going to win, but how the hell can you make a perdicition on a game 2 1/2 years from now?

    Rocky why are you even arguing with these feeble minded wolvies.

    There's no need to flame them, especially when you have sandwiches to make, o great sandwich artist.

    Seriously though, this thread is for the UM - MSU rivalry. Since we seem to get into it in every freaking recruiting thread, I thought it'd be best just to have one place where we can go and rant back and forth at each other.

    However, I'd prefer to have a genuine discussion with the opposing fanbase. Works most of the time; yellowdart seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and Hoffcopter (think that's right?) seems to be fine.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    There's no need to flame them, especially when you have sandwiches to make, o great sandwich artist.

    Seriously though, this thread is for the UM - MSU rivalry. Since we seem to get into it in every freaking recruiting thread, I thought it'd be best just to have one place where we can go and rant back and forth at each other.

    However, I'd prefer to have a genuine discussion with the opposing fanbase. Works most of the time; yellowdart seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and Hoffcopter (think that's right?) seems to be fine.

    Yep, no reason why we can't have level headed debates even though we are rivals.

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    Go Blue and Go Titans!

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Yep, no reason why we can't have level headed debates even though we are rivals.

    I'm glad to hear it.

    I'd really like both teams to get good, so that our game is more than just a state rivalry. Being in the same division should help, as I'd expect at least one of our teams, if not both, to be a player in for the Legends title each year going forward. Playing a bit later in the year should help, say late Oct/early Nov. This year you're our 2nd B1G game and I think we're your 3rd.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I'm glad to hear it.

    I'd really like both teams to get good, so that our game is more than just a state rivalry. Being in the same division should help, as I'd expect at least one of our teams, if not both, to be a player in for the Legends title each year going forward. Playing a bit later in the year should help, say late Oct/early Nov. This year you're our 2nd B1G game and I think we're your 3rd.

    I agree, level headed discussions are a lot better than, "blah blah blah your team sux mine rox yo blah blah blah" arguments that you see way too often.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Hoffelcopter said... (original post)

    I agree, level headed discussions are a lot better than, "blah blah blah your team sux mine rox yo blah blah blah" arguments that you see way too often.

    I tend to be civil until being treated otherwise.

    Back to on the field . . . . one area I haven't heard a ton about from UM fans is special teams. I know the kicking was attrocious, but isn't Hagerup a Soph at P? Top return options? How're your coverage teams looking?

    Also, what's the latest on Stonum? That's a pretty big loss if he can't come back.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I tend to be civil until being treated otherwise.

    Back to on the field . . . . one area I haven't heard a ton about from UM fans is special teams. I know the kicking was attrocious, but isn't Hagerup a Soph at P? Top return options? How're your coverage teams looking?

    Also, what's the latest on Stonum? That's a pretty big loss if he can't come back.

    Ya, Hagerup is going to be a solid punter he didn't do too bad. The Return game was good with Stonum, but I don't know if hell be allowed back onto the team or not, my guess would be not. Hemingway and Odoms used to return and did a decent job at it, so I don't see us having a problem with that.

    The area that really scares me is FG and PAT, we were god awful at that and the spring game didn't look any better. We have a new kicker in Matt Wile coming in from the 2011 class, and I'm hoping he can come it and at least make the 30 yard FG, because Gibbons and Breukheizen (spell check) couldn't even hit 15 yard FG's.

    So I really don't know in that department, it's not looking good unless some how magically one of them get it together or Wile comes in and doesn't become a train wreck.

    Coverage and Kickoffs weren't bad, and we should be alright there. The only area I'm scared about is FG's and PATs.

    This post was edited by Hoffelcopter 3 years ago

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  • The recruiting battle is not going the way I thought it would after a B1G championship. I thought that we would continue to dominate on the recruiting trail in Michigan. I thought we had good shot at RJS, Ross, Godin and the FHH kids. Now, that is what I thought.

    The reality is that the staff is not recruiting Michigan all that hard because we are now recruiting on a national level. It is not that we lost out on the top kids from Michigan so now we have to go out of state. It is obvious that the staff from the get go has decided to widen out recruiting base.

    I think result seen from MD and his staff speak for themselves. MD is probably one of the best at evaluating talent and then developing them. In the grand scheme of recruiting Michigan has always beaten us, but player development and the on field product is much more superior at this point.

    I have to admit, the hiring of Hoke is much scarier than I first imagined. Now they are going to go after the same type of player. When RR was there he recruited very fast midgets and now it seems like Hoke is recruiting actual B1G type players.

  • MSU's National Championships ... I see two recognized, why wouldn't the other 4 be recognized? (honest question).

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  • You guys are gonna think I am crazy but I think Michigan wins this year. But I also think State wins the year after. I think this year our D will be much improved and States O-Line lost a lot. I also believe that what you saw at the spring game is not what you will see in the real games this year. I was told they were working on some things that they know they don't do well and it was good for the D to go up against a pro-style offense and get some practice because all they have went up against the last couple years in practice was the spread. But I do think we will lose a lot after this year and have pretty rough time next year. Who knows though, that's why they play the games.

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  • Hoke is awesome, Mattison will shut out everybody, Dantonio's a faux-religious felon-enabling hypocrite with a grumpy scowl that even his mother doesn't love.

    Am I doing it right?

    peace Peace, my MSU brethren.

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  • Hail2Michigan said... (original post)

    MSU's National Championships ... I see two recognized, why wouldn't the other 4 be recognized? (honest question).

    After doing a little research... In 1955, OU went undefeated and was #1 in the AP poll... They won the NC. Yet, somehow MSU claims a NC also?

    Not trying to be funny, but how does that work?

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  • Hail2Michigan said... (original post)

    After doing a little research... In 1955, OU went undefeated and was #1 in the AP poll... They won the NC. Yet, somehow MSU claims a NC also?

    Not trying to be funny, but how does that work?

    That's how a lot those things were handled back then. Don't really understand, why, or how.

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  • Hail2Michigan said... (original post)

    MSU's National Championships ... I see two recognized, why wouldn't the other 4 be recognized? (honest question).

    I was surprised to see that Wikipedia actually has a fairly comprehensive answer to this question.

    College football national championships in NC

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS
  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    Any MSU fan want to join a NCAA 12 PS3 dynasty?

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    Go Blue and Go Titans!

  • "Regardless, since we became an actual university (no longer GLIAC/MAC level) and joined the Big Ten, we're 22-34-2 against UofM and soon to be 23-34-2. A few more good years and that's going to be even tighter. Only one school in NCAA history has more wins against "vaunted" UofM and that's OSU."

    This post was edited by Dikembe Mutombo 3 years ago

  • Zapp Brannigan said... (original post)

    I was surprised to see that Wikipedia actually has a fairly comprehensive answer to this question.

    I wonder why Michigan doesn't recognized the 1964, 1973 and 1984 NC's then...

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    goblue1993 said... (original post)

    You guys are gonna think I am crazy but I think Michigan wins this year. But I also think State wins the year after. I think this year our D will be much improved and States O-Line lost a lot. I also believe that what you saw at the spring game is not what you will see in the real games this year. I was told they were working on some things that they know they don't do well and it was good for the D to go up against a pro-style offense and get some practice because all they have went up against the last couple years in practice was the spread. But I do think we will lose a lot after this year and have pretty rough time next year. Who knows though, that's why they play the games.

    While that could happen, as certainly anything can in college football, you seem to be resting your prediction on a lot of "ifs" rather than known qualities, this far out.

    For instance, "your D will be much improved and MSU's OL lost a lot"; you're assuming that MSU's replacements won't be as good as the guys who left (3 2-star OL, 1 of which was a MAC transfer and the other 2 were converted DTs) AND that your D will be "much" improved.

    You're also assuming that the spring game is not indicative of what's to come. While that could be true, remember Robinson looked solid in the 2010 spring game and went on to have a great season. He looked much less than great this spring . . .

    I know for a fact that MSU will get very good QB play and has experienced WRs, TEs, and RBs. I know that we're returing 9 out of our top 10 DL and 2 2nd team All-Big 10 performers at CB and FS. From that, I'd expect our pass D to be pretty solid; we gave up 19 TDs against 17 INTs last year and I feel that we could see similar #s, if not better, this year.

    I know MSU's special teams are only replacing a punter, while the top 3 tacklers on special teams return. Our K was 14/15 with a Long of 50, so there are zero concerns for the K game, and Keshawn Martin has a KR and PR for a TD to his name, so I feel our return games should be solid all in all.

    The question, as you stated, is the OL, which we won't know abotu until the fall. I'm expecting 'servicable'; not much better or worse than last year. Given the improved experience at the skill positiions (3 SR WR, RS SR 3rd year starter at QB, 2 JR RBs, 2 SR TEs, etc. ), MSU should not fall off offensively, and our front 4 should be better on D (last year started 1 RS SR and 3 Sophs, this year 1 true soph and 3 RS Jrs, 3/4 are returning starters).

    Although our LBs would seem a question mark, with departed All-American Greg Jones and running-mate Eric Gordon gone, there has been no area on our team that has more highly touted players; 4 4-stars in the 9 scholarship players at the position, including Chris Norman, the lone returning starter. Yes, recruiting rankings are far from everything, but Max Bullough and Denicos Allen, the new MIKE and WILL (called STAR in our system) have fit in relatively seamlessly; Bullough had 20 tackles, a TFL and an INT as Jones' back-up last year and Allen had 16 tackles as a blocked punt to his credit. Probably the best thing soothing my concerns about this is that both Allen and Bullough won their starting spots early in spring, allowing them to get most of the 1st team reps; they'll be as prepared as they can be. I'm not expecting a 154 tackles, 9.5 sack season out of Bullough like Jones had in 2009, but I don't expect a huge dropoff.

    I'd expect MSU to win fairly easily this year (10+ points) and for 2012 to be a very close contest.

    This post was edited by SpartanRocky 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    You're also assuming that the spring game is not indicative of what's to come. While that could be true, remember Robinson looked solid in the 2010 spring game and went on to have a great season. He looked much less than great this spring . . .

    I know for a fact that MSU will get very good QB play and has experienced WRs, TEs, and RBs.


    I think his assumption is a much safer bet that yours on this one. Not saying the season is going to come around and our offense is going to be lights out. But I certainly think it's a safe assumption to believe the product 4 1/2 months before the first game is played is not going to be the same as the product come game day.

    And I'm a bit nitpicky about the "know for a fact" part about your QB play. In sports, it's simply not possible to know stuff like that, even here you're making an assumption that you're going to get good QB play based on his play last year. Certainly a safe assumption to make, and one I would even make, but it is without question not a fact that you're going to get good QB play this year.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I think his assumption is a much safer bet that yours on this one. Not saying the season is going to come around and our offense is going to be lights out. But I certainly think it's a safe assumption to believe the product 4 1/2 months before the first game is played is not going to be the same as the product come game day.

    And I'm a bit nitpicky about the "know for a fact" part about your QB play. In sports, it's simply not possible to know stuff like that, even here you're making an assumption that you're going to get good QB play based on his play last year. Certainly a safe assumption to make, and one I would even make, but it is without question not a fact that you're going to get good QB play this year.

    In that respect, we'd be left with nothing to talk about during the preseason. Cousins has had 2 very strong seasons and has a career 2:1 TD to INT ratio, as well as this being in his 3rd year starting. Though it's true that I can't say 100% that he'll play well, he's about as sure a thing at QB as there is in the conference.

    Likewise, if I can't draw the conclusion that Cousins will continue his strong play, based on evidence that he did so last season with the same offense and 80% of the same players, then I don't see how you can say that there will be definite improvement between the spring game and the 1st game.

    Personally, I think that you will see improvement, but if we're basing it off of real world evidence, I'd say my position has stronger support than yours.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    In that respect, we'd be left with nothing to talk about during the preseason. Cousins has had 2 very strong seasons and has a career 2:1 TD to INT ratio, as well as this being in his 3rd year starting. Though it's true that I can't say 100% that he'll play well, he's about as sure a thing at QB as there is in the conference.

    Likewise, if I can't draw the conclusion that Cousins will continue his strong play, based on evidence that he did so last season with the same offense and 80% of the same players, then I don't see how you can say that there will be definite improvement between the spring game and the 1st game.

    Personally, I think that you will see improvement, but if we're basing it off of real world evidence, I'd say my position has stronger support than yours.


    I think you may have taken a little more offense to my comment than I intended. I did admit I was being nitpicky, and I also admitted that your assumption that you're going to get good QB Play from cousins is a safe assumption... I totally think it's likely to happen.

    I think it's perfectly fair for you to draw the conclusion that cousins will continue his strong play based on all the evidence you have for you. It's just not fair for you to say you know for a fact, that was my main nitpick.

    Just as I'm not saying I know for a fact that there will be a definite improvement between the spring game and the first game. Just that it's likely a very safe assumption.