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We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

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The Official Michigan State and Michigan Thread

  • SpartanTailgate

    Buffalo Spartan

    WolverineMack said... (original post)

    Funny how you fail to mention the extra second that was left on the clock, to be able to run that 'final' play.

    As I tell my sparty friends every time they bring it up. When a brand new official has to be paid to run the scoreboard in all Big Ten games, starting the very next season...you know it was a BS call.

    I wont say anymore- cuz you guys totally out played us for most of that game. But with a unbiased scoreboard operator- we win that game.

    I was in E.Lansing myself for that game. I didnt go to the game- but I tailgated with friends. Thats when I truly realized you guys at MSU know how to party while tailgating. The very 1st ice luge I ever saw in my life. I wore a Michigan sweatshirt in enemy territory. No fights- but close a couple times. It appears (at that time) all spartans believed anyone with a Michigan shirt on were bandwagon jumpers. I kept hearing 'band the wagon'. So I had to ask my friends WTF these drunk kids were sayin that to me for. I just laughed it off- cuz I have been going to Michigan football games since 1988. Needless to say- at the end of that game I was in shock at my friends house. I didnt even know what to say or how to react. My team had just been robbed by a clock operator. I did wear my M sweatshirt out to the bar that night- cuz I told my friends I would, win or lose. Not one person said a word to me about it the whole night. I think I got respect, by actually wearing it out after a loss. I actually met a few new friends that night.

    Anyway...that was quite the ramble...

    The director of officials for the Big Ten said after the fact that the play was called correctly, end of story.

    The rule was changed because poor Michigan bitched up a storm so they had to something to appease them and get them off their backs.

  • SpartanTailgate

    Batesianmimicry

    Due51 said... (original post)

    I have to say, I don't get all these camp offers and rankings going up during camp. What has always separated the men from the boys is pads. There are a TON of "T-Shirt All-Americans" but when the pads go on and the contact begins, some guys fade away into oblivion.

    I realize these camps and combines have become big business and they're a great way for coaches to see a bunch of kids in one place at one time. But I'm from the old school and I'm more impressed with a guy who earned his ranking and praise by what he did on the football field his junior/senior year rather than how well he performed in shorts and tshirt.

    Recruiting is now a race. By the time you get a senior tape, the kid has probably already committed nowadays. Making recruiting earlier and earlier has changed the playing field. Different coaches have benefited in different ways. Some top coaches have benefited by finding kids in these camps. Others like Dantonio have benefited from finding guys after the senior season for various reasons. (e.g. Daqrueze Dennard, Greg Jones, Kirk Cousins, Dion Sims). Still other coaches have been unable to adapt and have lost a lot in recruiting.

    Kids at camps are walking around with highlight tapes all the time. What you are saying though has a lot of validity. Keshawn Martin never went to a camp because he never had enough money to do so, and he was an unknown until his senior tape got out. His coach sent out his tape everywhere, and immediately Illinois and MSU offered, had he been at camps, he's probably being courted by a lot more teams and would have been a mid 4* prospect.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Batesianmimicry said... (original post)

    Recruiting is now a race. By the time you get a senior tape, the kid has probably already committed nowadays. Making recruiting earlier and earlier has changed the playing field. Different coaches have benefited in different ways. Some top coaches have benefited by finding kids in these camps. Others like Dantonio have benefited from finding guys after the senior season for various reasons. (e.g. Daqrueze Dennard, Greg Jones, Kirk Cousins, Dion Sims). Still other coaches have been unable to adapt and have lost a lot in recruiting.

    Kids at camps are walking around with highlight tapes all the time. What you are saying though has a lot of validity. Keshawn Martin never went to a camp because he never had enough money to do so, and he was an unknown until his senior tape got out. His coach sent out his tape everywhere, and immediately Illinois and MSU offered, had he been at camps, he's probably being courted by a lot more teams and would have been a mid 4* prospect.

    Recruiting is not a race. There are a few schools that push for early commits; the Texas schools being the most well known, and until a few years ago, Penn State.

    Advantage: Get a head start on recruiting, lock up guys early, allow for you to focus more attention on a few remaining targets.

    Disadvantage: Grabbing a ton of commits before the season/camps means you miss later bloomers (ridiculous that rising SRs during camps are "late" bloomers), there's a chance your early commits can waiver if you have a bad season, and, because you've offered a kid before their SR year, there's a chance for injury, academic, or other issues.

    Texas this past season, and PSU in the early 2000s suffered because their talent evaluation didn't match up with how the players actually turned out, causing an abnormally high number of "misses" which in turn resulted in poor seasons.

    There's certainly virtue in the early hard sell; momentum, and a fair # of the recuits probably will turn out fine. The more evaluation done, the better, but fanbases have to trust their staffs.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Recruiting is not a race. There are a few schools that push for early commits; the Texas schools being the most well known, and until a few years ago, Penn State.

    Advantage: Get a head start on recruiting, lock up guys early, allow for you to focus more attention on a few remaining targets.

    Disadvantage: Grabbing a ton of commits before the season/camps means you miss later bloomers (ridiculous that rising SRs during camps are "late" bloomers), there's a chance your early commits can waiver if you have a bad season, and, because you've offered a kid before their SR year, there's a chance for injury, academic, or other issues.

    Texas this past season, and PSU in the early 2000s suffered because their talent evaluation didn't match up with how the players actually turned out, causing an abnormally high number of "misses" which in turn resulted in poor seasons.

    There's certainly virtue in the early hard sell; momentum, and a fair # of the recuits probably will turn out fine. The more evaluation done, the better, but fanbases have to trust their staffs.

    There are a LOT of early commits and to me, it appears the recruiting landscape is changing. Whereas a commit this early used to be rare, it's now becoming the norm.

    At the risk of coming off argumentative, your hypothesis of Hoke's hard sell and promises of early playing time are both theories hatched by haters who are getting pummeled in the early going of recruiting. Have you heard Hoke's pitch? Have you ever spoken to the guy? Do you personally know someone being recruited by him? If, as I suspect, the answer is "no" then you have no idea what you're talking about and simply trying to rationalize how in the world the guy is doing it.

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    HAIL

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    There are a LOT of early commits and to me, it appears the recruiting landscape is changing. Whereas a commit this early used to be rare, it's now becoming the norm.

    At the risk of coming off argumentative, your hypothesis of Hoke's hard sell and promises of early playing time are both theories hatched by haters who are getting pummeled in the early going of recruiting. Have you heard Hoke's pitch? Have you ever spoken to the guy? Do you personally know someone being recruited by him? If, as I suspect, the answer is "no" then you have no idea what you're talking about and simply trying to rationalize how in the world the guy is doing it.

    No, but our staff has reported it from recruits. Take it FWIW. I trust those guys not to just make stuff up.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    No, but our staff has reported it from recruits. Take it FWIW. I trust those guys not to just make stuff up.

    So State's staff have reported that players they've recruited against Michigan have said "Coach Hoke really put the hard sell on me and promised me early playing time" ? Would you please show me a link or quote?

    Sorry Rocky, but honestly, put the shoe on the other foot. If Dantonio was raking in top ranked recruits and was 9-0 in head-to-head against Hoke this early, and I wrote what you just did, you and the entire RCMB would be all over this board calling me every name in the book and posting pictures of crying babies.

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    HAIL

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    So State's staff have reported that players they've recruited against Michigan have said "Coach Hoke really put the hard sell on me and promised me early playing time" ? Would you please show me a link or quote?

    Sorry Rocky, but honestly, put the shoe on the other foot. If Dantonio was raking in top ranked recruits and was 9-0 in head-to-head against Hoke this early, and I wrote what you just did, you and the entire RCMB would be all over this board calling me every name in the book and posting pictures of crying babies.

    Hey, I'm just giving you the source; they talked to James Ross and Terry Richardson, if you want some names, plus the Armani Reeves quote. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from it.

    What's your explanation for this recruiting bonanza? That UM is "just that good"? Sorry, but put the shoe on the other foot. If MSU was 0-3 vs. UM and was coming off 3-9, 5-7, 7-6 seasons with a new coach and was pulling in recruits left and right, what would your response be?

    I never said that it was only a hard sell going on; I think a bunch of factors are playing a part; your name/tradition, a guy with ties to MI, PT being available and yes, telling kids if they want to play for UM, they need to hop on before the train leaves the station. I don't know why that's such a far out conclusion to arrive at.

    Also, my OP was talking about early recruiting in general. There are plenty of life long fans/legacy players that commit early that aren't going to look around no matter what. There is risk at taking early recruits because they have a full offseason + SR year ahead of them; they aren't even a finished HS product. While there are plenty of kids that don't need to prove anything in camps, there are also plenty of kids that "blow up" during camp season.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MalibuMan 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Hey, I'm just giving you the source; they talked to James Ross and Terry Richardson, if you want some names, plus the Armani Reeves quote. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from it.

    What's your explanation for this recruiting bonanza? That UM is "just that good"? Sorry, but put the shoe on the other foot. If MSU was 0-3 vs. UM and was coming off 3-9, 5-7, 7-6 seasons with a new coach and was pulling in recruits left and right, what would your response be?

    I don't know due51's opinion, but I would say that players want to play for a program that is historically one of the best instead of a program that is historically average. Sorry but spartys selling point of, we haven't been to a Rose Bowl in over 20 years, doesn't sound appealling

  • What do I attribute Hoke's success to? His absolute commitment to the job, his passion for restoring Michigan football, a staff that works as tirelessly as him, their dogged determination to make amends for any frayed relationships from the last few years, and a genuine enthusiasm that you simply cannot fabricate. Call that guy whatever name you want, if we all worked as hard as Brady Hoke we A) wouldn't waste all this time talking about him lol, and B) be uber-successful.

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    HAIL

  • Due51 said... (original post)

    What do I attribute Hoke's success to? His absolute commitment to the job, his passion for restoring Michigan football, a staff that works as tirelessly as him, their dogged determination to make amends for any frayed relationships from the last few years, and a genuine enthusiasm that you simply cannot fabricate. Call that guy whatever name you want, if we all worked as hard as Brady Hoke we A) wouldn't waste all this time talking about him lol, and B) be uber-successful.

    Let's see results on the field before you jump to conclusions

  • jwarsenal9 said... (original post)

    Let's see results on the field before you jump to conclusions

    No doubt. I never made any prediction or crowned him COTY. I'm simply commenting on the job he's done thus far while in Ann Arbor.

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    HAIL

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    No doubt. I never made any prediction or crowned him COTY. I'm simply commenting on the job he's done thus far while in Ann Arbor.

    What do I attribute Hoke's success to? His absolute commitment to the job, his passion for restoring Michigan football, a staff that works as tirelessly as him, their dogged determination to make amends for any frayed relationships from the last few years, and a genuine enthusiasm that you simply cannot fabricate. Call that guy whatever name you want, if we all worked as hard as Brady Hoke we A) wouldn't waste all this time talking about him , and B) be uber-successful.

    Which, to be honest, are all fair comments. I think he's done about as good as a job the fans could possibly expect at this point, and I'm honestly not trying to take anything away from it. I do think a bunch of early commits can be a double edged sword at times, which was the point of my OP.

    I will point out, however, that in your response you didn't refute the hard sell approach. "Working tirelessly", "dogged determination" "passion for restoring UM football" all sound like someone who's pulling out all the stops to get the job done. Wouldn't that include a hard-sell, commit now, let's get the ball rolling?

    Completely unrelated, but I think I just figured out a substitute for multi-quote. Just cut and past the extra posts you want to quote into the window that pops up when you click the "quote original post in reply". Sweet.

    In any event, I think we're kind of spinning our wheels because it's been a slow week. Looking forward to getting this Big 10 fan roundtable kicked off.

    This post was edited by MalibuMan 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Which, to be honest, are all fair comments. I think he's done about as good as a job the fans could possibly expect at this point, and I'm honestly not trying to take anything away from it. I do think a bunch of early commits can be a double edged sword at times, which was the point of my OP.

    I will point out, however, that in your response you didn't refute the hard sell approach. "Working tirelessly", "dogged determination" "passion for restoring UM football" all sound like someone who's pulling out all the stops to get the job done. Wouldn't that include a hard-sell, commit now, let's get the ball rolling?

    Completely unrelated, but I think I just figured out a substitute for multi-quote. Just cut and past the extra posts you want to quote into the window that pops up when you click the "quote original post in reply". Sweet.

    In any event, I think we're kind of spinning our wheels because it's been a slow week. Looking forward to getting this Big 10 fan roundtable kicked off.

    The "commit now" has been used in areas were we only had maybe 1 spot left, example the DB position. We have room for one more and it's most likely going to be Jarrod Wilson now. I can see why any school, not just UM would say this in the same position.

    Let's say State had 1 spot left open for the DB position with three more wanting to possibly commit, would they not say, "Hey look, we have one spot left for DB, if you want to come play for State you should probably commit now before the spots fill up."

    This post was edited by Hoffelcopter 3 years ago

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  • Serious questions at the Spartans.. did your AD actually PAY for The Situation to make a celebrity appearance at Spartan Stadium or is he just tweeting about it... either way roflmao

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    KRGoBlue said... (original post)

    Serious questions at the Spartans.. did your AD actually PAY for The Situation to make a celebrity appearance at Spartan Stadium or is he just tweeting about it... either way

    We did not pay him a dime; apparently he wanted to go to an MSU game (for reasons that are beyond my understanding) and Hollis tweeted about it.

    I hate Twitter in general, but yea, none of us are in favor of this.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Has Hoke put the hard sell on some guys? Yes. On all, or even a majority of commits? Absolutely not.

    Different recruits get recruited differently.

    Is it a hard sell to tell a guy that there is one more spot open at a position? Its the same thing Dantonio tried to do last January at DT- the difference is Hoke is filling up in May.

    I also remember hearing that Dantonio put a hard sell of his own on Ojemudia at MSU's Spring Game.

    The bottom line is Hoke is getting commitments from prospects with very nice offer lists at positions of need and will be in great position to focus on a few blue chippers this fall and get a head start on 2013.

    In my opinion, MSU needs to have another great year on the field and they need to open the purse strings and get some headhunters to recruit. Their last few AC hires have been very underwhelming IMO.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Honestly we didn't have a name, just that an analyst said that. Hence the stir emoticon.

    It was Rico Beard, a Spartan Mag analyst. Real objective.

  • Big M said... (original post)

    It was Rico Beard, a Spartan Mag analyst. Real objective.

    Even I can't stand those Spartan Mag guys sometimes. Some of the stuff they write really makes us look bad as fans of the program.

  • SpartanTailgate

    InTenSity

    Just to be sure, UM is still winning the summer MNC, thought I read somewhere that they would have a singular all B1G RB freshmen this year.

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    Now knowing what 1995 is like all over again! Thank you 247 technology!!

  • Im ready for Michigan to get their own board. They are littering this place up as is.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Big M said... (original post)

    It was Rico Beard, a Spartan Mag analyst. Real objective.

    Well then disregard that opinion. Not a lot of us on tRCMB give the Mag staff a lot of creedence. In the 247 article, they didn't name the analyst. That's what I get for not fact-checking all the way.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • *

    This post was edited by NigelUno 3 years ago

  • KRGoBlue said... (original post)

    Serious questions at the Spartans.. did your AD actually PAY for The Situation to make a celebrity appearance at Spartan Stadium or is he just tweeting about it... either way roflmao

    Our AD tweeted about some guy. It took him 2 seconds.

    Your AD is spending time thinking about adding a mascot.

    roflmao

  • WolverineMack said... (original post)

    Funny how you fail to mention the extra second that was left on the clock, to be able to run that "final" play.

    As I tell my sparty friends every time they bring it up. When a brand new official has to be paid to run the scoreboard in all Big Ten games, starting the very next season...you know it was a BS call.

    I wont say anymore- cuz you guys totally out played us for most of that game. But with a unbiased scoreboard operator- we win that game.

    I was in E.Lansing myself for that game. I didnt go to the game- but I tailgated with friends. Thats when I truly realized you guys at MSU know how to party while tailgating. The very 1st ice luge I ever saw in my life. I wore a Michigan sweatshirt in enemy territory. No fights- but close a couple times. It appears (at that time) all spartans believed anyone with a Michigan shirt on were bandwagon jumpers. I kept hearing "band the wagon". So I had to ask my friends WTF these drunk kids were sayin that to me for. I just laughed it off- cuz I have been going to Michigan football games since 1988. Needless to say- at the end of that game I was in shock at my friends house. I didnt even know what to say or how to react. My team had just been robbed by a clock operator. I did wear my M sweatshirt out to the bar that night- cuz I told my friends I would, win or lose. Not one person said a word to me about it the whole night. I think I got respect, by actually wearing it out after a loss. I actually met a few new friends that night.

    Anyway...that was quite the ramble...

    So...you didn't even go to UM?

  • WolverineMack said... (original post)

    Funny how you fail to mention the extra second that was left on the clock, to be able to run that "final" play.

    As I tell my sparty friends every time they bring it up. When a brand new official has to be paid to run the scoreboard in all Big Ten games, starting the very next season...you know it was a BS call.

    I wont say anymore- cuz you guys totally out played us for most of that game. But with a unbiased scoreboard operator- we win that game.

    I was in E.Lansing myself for that game. I didnt go to the game- but I tailgated with friends. Thats when I truly realized you guys at MSU know how to party while tailgating. The very 1st ice luge I ever saw in my life. I wore a Michigan sweatshirt in enemy territory. No fights- but close a couple times. It appears (at that time) all spartans believed anyone with a Michigan shirt on were bandwagon jumpers. I kept hearing "band the wagon". So I had to ask my friends WTF these drunk kids were sayin that to me for. I just laughed it off- cuz I have been going to Michigan football games since 1988. Needless to say- at the end of that game I was in shock at my friends house. I didnt even know what to say or how to react. My team had just been robbed by a clock operator. I did wear my M sweatshirt out to the bar that night- cuz I told my friends I would, win or lose. Not one person said a word to me about it the whole night. I think I got respect, by actually wearing it out after a loss. I actually met a few new friends that night.

    Anyway...that was quite the ramble...

    So...you didn't even go to UM?