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The Official Michigan State and Michigan Thread

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    Marvin Robinson did not redshirt (sadly). He is a true soph.

    I remember seeing him on special teams last year actually. Completely forgot about that.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Hoffelcopter said... (original post)

    Probably won't happen, we're getting Troy Woolfolk back who missed last year with an ankle injury. We also have JT Floyd and Courtney Avery is starting to look real good. Greg Brown impressed the coaches this spring, he's the only True Freshman I see playing at any DB position next year, and I don't really see any DB's from the 2012 starting as True Freshman either. You have to be an extremely good athlete, even on D-1 college terms to start as a True Freshman at CB.

    As for the S positions, it's still up in the air. We have Marvin Robinson, Josh Furman, Jordan Kovacs, and Thomas Gordon fighting for those positions. That's where we need the depth. Marvin and Josh are both RS Freshman, Kovacs will be a Junior, and Thomas Gordon will be a RS Sophomore.

    We need some true safeties, pretty badly.

    For CB 2011: Troy Woolfolk RS Senior Courtney Avery Sophomore JT Floyd RS Junior Terrence Talbott Sophomore Greg Brown True Freshman Tamani Carter True Freshman Blake Countess True Freshman Delonte Hollowell True Freshman

    So by 2012 we will only lose 2 CB's. Safety positions are my biggest fear for the future on the defense.

    So I guess we could see a player starting early in Greg Brown, but most likely the guys from the 2012 class realistically won't see the field (not counting special teams) till their RS Sophomore year and later. Unless they move to safety where they would have a better shot at early playing time.

    I think next year our CB's will be Woolfolk and Avery, with Greg Brown and JT Floyd being their backups.

    For Safety Jordan Kovacs and Marvin Robinson/Josh Furman, with the edge to Josh Furman. It will still be a young backfield.

    I was more saying that 2-4 of your DBs aren't going to red shirt this year (2011 class). Too early to speculate about 2012. MSU usually plays 4-7 true frosh each year, even if just on special teams. I'd expect for you to use several frosh in the secondary, even if it's just to dress for games and be in on special teams. One injury to a CB and you're left with a true freshman as 2nd string by default. I'd anticipate you guys trying to get that player ready by playing them a bit during the early part of the year.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I think 2012 will be very interesting; MSU's D should be its best in a long time, especially up the middle.

    How can a defense that loses 2 starting linebackers including a 2-time All-America be considered "best in a long time, especially up the middle?"

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  • I just found this thread.

    I must say, kudos to probably the most civil discussion on UM/MSU I have ever witnessed.

    carry on

  • Due51 said... (original post)

    How can a defense that loses 2 starting linebackers including a 2-time All-America be considered "best in a long time, especially up the middle?"

    I believe he is talking about next year already.

  • Big M said... (original post)

    I believe he is talking about next year already.

    Whoopsy. Missed that. Thanks.

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  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I was more saying that 2-4 of your DBs aren't going to red shirt this year (2011 class). Too early to speculate about 2012. MSU usually plays 4-7 true frosh each year, even if just on special teams. I'd expect for you to use several frosh in the secondary, even if it's just to dress for games and be in on special teams. One injury to a CB and you're left with a true freshman as 2nd string by default. I'd anticipate you guys trying to get that player ready by playing them a bit during the early part of the year.

    Oh, ya well that's definitely true. I thought you were saying that will be playing on the field with the defense and what not. But ya you are right, there will always be some True Freshman that will be playing his first year on special teams.

    We will have to have about 3 injures on the CB position to see a True Fresh having quality playing playing time. They will have Troy Woolfolk, Courtney Avery, JT Floyd, and Terrence Talbott ahead of Greg Brown right now. Now he might see some time playing on special teams, some on garbage time and some nickle packages if there are injures.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    How can a defense that loses 2 starting linebackers including a 2-time All-America be considered "best in a long time, especially up the middle?"

    I'm glad you asked. I know it may be surprising, but MSU is really set to reload at LB. We lost Greg Jones and Eric Gordon; no doubt a big loss. Coming out of the spring, you heard little to no concern amongst the fans regarding their replacements.

    With 4 former 4-star prospects, including 2nd year starter Chris Norman on our roster, MSU really looks to extend its years of solid LB play. Max Bullough showed some flashes last year at MLB, with an INT and a TFL (on Shoelaces, no less) to go along with 20 tackles. At 6'3 240, he's much more of the prototypical brick wall Big 10 MLB than Jones was. Jones, for all intents and purposes, was a WILL playing the MIKE because of his instincts and tackling ability. It's no surprise that once he bulked up to 240 this past year to play MLB, that his production dropped off.

    We're replacing Eric Gordon at the SAM by moving Chris Norman over there. Norman had a solid year last year with 59 tackles, an INT, a few TFL, etc. SAM is his natural position, and he should be able to fill in admirably as a JR this season.

    That leaves the 3rd position, called STAR in our system (really a WILL), which has been won by Denicos Allen. At 5'10 218, the kid's a brick wall and had a fantastic spring.

    Now, this along isn't enough to support my "strong up the middle" proposition; I concede that I don't expect to get the exact same production from this line-up as last years. I am expecting about 90% or so, there is a ton of talent here and we do have 1 returning starter (Norman) and 2 guys who did see PT last year in Bullough and Allen. It's not like we're putting in scrubs; Bullough was the #5 MLB nationally out of HS and Norman the #9 OLB; Allen was a high 3-star guy. We also add All-American Lawerence Thomas to our 2 deeps. I know that stars are far from everything, but MSU is certainly not using MAC left-overs at LB.

    The bigger deal is the development of Anthony Rashad White (ARW) at NT to go along with Jerel Worthy. White, in his 2nd year out of JUCO (JR eligibility this year), is just a freak. He's 6'2 323 and can just flat out move. When he got on campus last year, he passed the conditioning test, according to Dantonio, "without breathing". It's fairly common to see JUCOs take a big step between years 1 and 2, and ARW did just that this spring. He and Worthy (6'3 305) were placed on opposite teams for the spring game, and both played great. The fact that they're now going to be playing next to each other in the middle of our D is what gives me a lot of hope that we'll be stout against the run. That's a lot of beef up the gut; 2 300-plus pound DTs, one of which is a projected top 12 NFL draft pick for 2012 (Worthy) with a highly touted 6'3 240 pound MLB.

    Factor in that our DEs have finally grown into their 6'7 frames (Hoover is 6'7 274 and Gholston 6'7 272) and I think MSU fans have plenty of reasons to be hopeful for the front 4, and by extension, the front 7, in 2011.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Big M said... (original post)

    I believe he is talking about next year already.

    Yea, I think we'll be strong up the middle in 2011 too, which i explained in a previous post.

    In 2012, as I think I've said in this thread, MSU looks to return 10/11 starters on D and 19/22 in the 2-deep. If Worthy goes pro, like many are expecting, those #s drop to 9/11 and 18/22. That's still a ridiculous amount of returning defensive depth; MSU would return all it's LBs, CBs and DEs, lose 1 DT and 1 FS.

    That's with no stud 2011 guys (Clemons or LT) or even a 2012 guy blowing the doors off (no way I'm making that claim).

    Really, MSU is set up nicely for the next 2 years.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • You have an in-depth analysis on the entire line-up and lofty expectations for a number of returners but there's nothing that can replace 2 or 3 years of starting experience. The 2 new ILBs, Gholstons inexperience, a shaky O-line, a much tougher schedule, and a new OC and Treadwell's departure leads me to believe MSU 2011 will have a tough time duplicating 2010s success. Of course you have to factor in my bias as well.

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  • Due51 said... (original post)

    You have an in-depth analysis on the entire line-up and lofty expectations for a number of returners but there's nothing that can replace 2 or 3 years of starting experience. The 2 new ILBs, Gholstons inexperience, a shaky O-line, a much tougher schedule, and a new OC and Treadwell's departure leads me to believe MSU 2011 will have a tough time duplicating 2010s success. Of course you have to factor in my bias as well.

    Yeah I agree. I can easily see 4 or more losses for MSU this year. Though I admit that 2012 does look like it will set up very nicely.

  • Big M said... (original post)

    Yeah I agree. I can easily see 4 or more losses for MSU this year. Though I admit that 2012 does look like it will set up very nicely.

    Then they're starting a new QB, lose an experienced TE is Linthicum, along with some receiver. Their RBs should be the best in the conference and their line will be better, that's for sure.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    You have an in-depth analysis on the entire line-up and lofty expectations for a number of returners but there's nothing that can replace 2 or 3 years of starting experience. The 2 new ILBs, Gholstons inexperience, a shaky O-line, a much tougher schedule, and a new OC and Treadwell's departure leads me to believe MSU 2011 will have a tough time duplicating 2010s success. Of course you have to factor in my bias as well.

    Sure, but keep in mind that Gordon and Jones stepped into the starting line-up in 2007 as a RS Frosh and a true frosh respectively and played very well. The 2011 starters have more raw athletic ability and more experience than either of those 2. I'm not saying MSU's LBs will be the best in the conference, but I'm not expecting them to drop-off. Gholston's inexperienced, but Worthy and Hoover are in their 3rd year starting and White his 2nd. DL improvment can mask a lot of deficiencies and keep in mind our secondary should be pretty decent this year as well.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    Then they're starting a new QB, lose an experienced TE is Linthicum, along with some receiver. Their RBs should be the best in the conference and their line will be better, that's for sure.

    Well, we'll be starting a RS JR at QB; that's about the best you can hope for when replacing a QB in terms of experience; he'll get a lot of looks this year, especially in blowouts.

    We're losing Linthicum, but keeping Dion Sims; TE is not a position to be worried about at MSU. We do lose 3 SR WRs, but have Bennie Fowler, Keith Mumphery and "2-way Tony" Lippett in the rotation this year. We'll return our K and P; can't underestimate the role of special teams, the one area that MSU truly excelled in nationally last year.

    So, factor that in with very strong RBs, a returning OL and a ton of returning defenders, plus our toughest games at home (Boise, ND, tOSU, Nebraska, Iowa) and I think MSU is set up nicely for 2012.

    Of course, knowing that, the world will end on Dec. 21, 2012, right after we clinch our first Rose Bowl in 25 years.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Lol. You paint a rosy picture my friend, I'll give you that. If they can perform to those expectations, I'll publicly praise Dantonio for being a much better coach than I give him credit for.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    Lol. You paint a rosy picture my friend, I'll give you that. If they can perform to those expectations, I'll publicly praise Dantonio for being a much better coach than I give him credit for.

    Well, we've had 3 very solid years of recruiting ('09-'11) and I think that raised our floor from a 4-8 team to a 6-6 team. We've got athletes and stability. It's pretty much all we can hope for at this point, save for the OL, which is my biggest knock on the coaching staff.

    Put it this way, I think if MSU goes 10-2 this year, people aren't going to look at it as a WTF, where did they come from type year. 10-2 would surprise me, but I wouldn't be floored if it happened. Schedule is tougher, but there's much more stability. For all the talk of a coach getting "his players" in, MSU is finally at this point; first time since George Perles that a coach has seen his first class make it to their RS Sr year all the way through (Saban left before graduation/bowl game).

    I'm really expecting more of a 9-3 type year, with 8-4 or 10-2 possibilities if things break wrong or right. I think something major would have to happen to drop us to 7-5 or 11-1. Still, there are pretty good reasons for MSU fans to be optimistic this coming year.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Ok guys, you have 25 schollies, who is most likely to end up in your class?

    1.QB Gunner Kiel
    2. WR Aaron Burbidge
    3. WR/TE Devin Funchess
    4. TE A.J. Williams
    5. TE Ron Thompson
    6. OL Ben Braden
    7. OL Caleb Stacey
    8. OL Jordan Diamond
    9. OL Paul Thurston
    10. OL Erik Magnuson
    11. DE Mario Ojemudia
    12. DE Pharoh Brown
    13. DE Chris Wormley
    14. DE Tom Strobel
    15. DT/DE Matt Godin
    16. DT Ondre Pipkins
    17. DT Jaleel Johnson
    18. LB James Ross
    19. LB Ross Jenkins-Stone
    20. LB Joe Bolden
    21. LB Kaleb Ringer
    22. DB Terry Richardson
    23. DB Wayne Morgan
    24. DB Anthony Standifer
    25. DB Allen Gant

    This is my guess, what do you guys think? I am hoping both Wolverines and Spartans participate.

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  • I am not sure what is going on with Thompson so I would either replace him with Dunn (If he switches to us) or Garmon at running back. Other than that I can live with this list barring a few 5 star players wanting to jump aboard.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    goblue1993 said... (original post)

    Ok guys, you have 25 schollies, who is most likely to end up in your class?

    1.QB Gunner Kiel 2. WR Aaron Burbidge 3. WR/TE Devin Funchess 4. TE A.J. Williams 5. TE Ron Thompson 6. OL Ben Braden 7. OL Caleb Stacey 8. OL Jordan Diamond 9. OL Paul Thurston 10. OL Erik Magnuson 11. DE Mario Ojemudia 12. DE Pharoh Brown 13. DE Chris Wormley 14. DE Tom Strobel 15. DT/DE Matt Godin 16. DT Ondre Pipkins 17. DT Jaleel Johnson 18. LB James Ross 19. LB Ross Jenkins-Stone 20. LB Joe Bolden 21. LB Kaleb Ringer 22. DB Terry Richardson 23. DB Wayne Morgan 24. DB Anthony Standifer 25. DB Allen Gant

    This is my guess, what do you guys think? I am hoping both Wolverines and Spartans participate.

    Curious what the thought is on Kiel coming to UM, especially since you already have morris committed for 2013?

    Thats a loaded recruiting class, to be sure. Keep in mind MSU only has 18 scholarships to give right now, so a full 25 isn't going to happen.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Curious what the thought is on Kiel coming to UM, especially since you already have morris committed for 2013?

    Thats a loaded recruiting class, to be sure. Keep in mind MSU only has 18 scholarships to give right now, so a full 25 isn't going to happen.

    I think I would much rather have Morris than Kiel (besides Kiel has a much cooler name).

    Morris is near even with Kiel and the rest of the five stars in camps already (won MVP over him, won multiple awards at them also), and he still has a few years to even NSD for him.

    Barring an injury, I would say he has an legitimate chance to be top 10 in the nation, plus he is going to be a great recruiter for us, especially at the WR position which we are going to be needing soon.

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  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Curious what the thought is on Kiel coming to UM, especially since you already have morris committed for 2013?

    Thats a loaded recruiting class, to be sure. Keep in mind MSU only has 18 scholarships to give right now, so a full 25 isn't going to happen.

    Well Hoke and Co. have came out and said that they want to take a QB in every class. Shane Morris knows this, and Gunner Kiel knows this. Competition won't scare kids away from recruiting, especially ones as high a caliber as Gunner and Shane.

    Go Blue has our most likely finished class correct. I'm not sure about Ron Thompson though, I have no idea what is going on with him, and I project A.J. Williams moving to O-Line. He's already 6-6 255 as a Junior in Highschool. I can see him being around 6-6, 6-8 and between 290-310 after a Redshirt year.

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  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    Hoffelcopter said... (original post)

    Well Hoke and Co. have came out and said that they want to take a QB in every class. Shane Morris knows this, and Gunner Kiel knows this. Competition won't scare kids away from recruiting, especially ones as high a caliber as Gunner and Shane.

    Go Blue has our most likely finished class correct. I'm not sure about Ron Thompson though, I have no idea what is going on with him, and I project A.J. Williams moving to O-Line. He's already 6-6 255 as a Junior in Highschool. I can see him being around 6-6, 6-8 and between 290-310 after a Redshirt year.

    I don't think Morris stays committed if Kiel commits, and vice versa.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    InTenSity

    Why is there even going to be a college football season next year, obviously SCum has already won the MNC.

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    Now knowing what 1995 is like all over again! Thank you 247 technology!!

  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    InTenSity said... (original post)

    Why is there even going to be a college football season next year, obviously SCum has already won the MNC.

    Obviously.

    I thought everyone knew this.

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  • SpartanTailgate

    InTenSity

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Obviously.

    I thought everyone knew this.

    Obviously heismans are won in september and loi's are signed in May.

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