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The Official Michigan State and Michigan Thread

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    I said no one is calling him the Savior, as in he is going to work a miracle overnight. I am sure most Michigan posters are happy with his hire, think he is a good coach, and believe he will improve Michigan's team in the coming years. That is exactly what your quoted poster states. That is a far cry from "Savior".

    I was going off of this sentence, "With Michigan presumably returning to its past form under Hoke". And I have a serious question, Why do you think he is a good hire and will be a good coach. I honestly want to know why everyone thinks that. Other than bringing back a more power oriented offense to UM, he hasn't done a whole lot as a coach other than his final year at Ball and SDSU. To a lot of people, other than UM fans, it looked like a desperate hire.

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    Sp4rt4ns said... (original post)

    I was going off of this sentence, "With Michigan presumably returning to its past form under Hoke". And I have a serious question, Why do you think he is a good hire and will be a good coach. I honestly want to know why everyone thinks that. Other than bringing back a more power oriented offense to UM, he hasn't done a whole lot as a coach other than his final year at Ball and SDSU. To a lot of people, other than UM fans, it looked like a desperate hire.

    One sentence in a page long post that gives credit to MSU and their recent success. OK.

    First, Hoke proved as Michigan's DL coach that he can coach, recruit, and develop talent. He was regarded as perhaps the top position coach recruiter on the staff during his time there. Hoke's last two HC jobs were at two of the (historically) worst places to be a HC. Ball State was abysmal before Hoke took over. SDSU hadn't been to a bowl game in about 40 years. Hoke got them to one (and won it) in his second year there. Also, look at the losses they had last year. I think all were by less than 5 points.

    Hoke also has a superb relationship with the high school coaches in Michigan and Ohio. This is being shown through the quick start in recruiting. As the other poster mentioned, recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. For whatever reasons, RR did not have much success in recruiting the top talent in the Midwest. Sure, he got some kids from FL, but losing kids in the Midwest usually means they are going to one of your rivals and you are going to have to see them for the next four years. Recruiting is not just about what kids your team lands, but what teams you prevent from getting them.

    I also like the staff that Hoke has put together. The Mattison hire was huge, both in terms of pedigree and his ability to recruit. Urban Meyer referred to Mattison as the best recruiter in CFB in Feb (and I think Mattison is living up to that). Borgess is proven as an OC with success at Auburn, UCLA, etc.

    I believe people who don't know much about Hoke, and happen to be fans of some of Michigan's rivals, believe it was a desperate hire. There are plenty of analysts who think exactly the opposite.

    This post was edited by c_woodson 3 years ago

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    One sentence in a page long post that gives credit to MSU and their recent success. OK.

    First, Hoke proved as Michigan's DL coach that he can coach, recruit, and develop talent. He was regarded as perhaps the top position coach recruiter on the staff during his time there. Hoke's last two HC jobs were at two of the (historically) worst places to be a HC. Ball State was abysmal before Hoke took over. SDSU hadn't been to a bowl game in about 40 years. Hoke got them to one (and won it) in his second year there. Also, look at the losses they had last year. I think all were by less than 5 points.

    Hoke also has a superb relationship with the high school coaches in Michigan and Ohio. This is being shown through the quick start in recruiting. As the other poster mentioned, recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. For whatever reasons, RR did not have much success in recruiting the top talent in the Midwest. Sure, he got some kids from FL, but losing kids in the Midwest usually means they are going to one of your rivals and you are going to have to see them for the next four years. Recruiting is not just about what kids your team lands, but what teams you prevent from getting them.

    I also like the staff that Hoke has put together. The Mattison hire was huge, both in terms of pedigree and his ability to recruit. Urban Meyer referred to Mattison as the best recruiter in CFB in Feb (and I think Mattison is living up to that). Borgess is proven as an OC with success at Auburn, UCLA, etc.

    I believe people who don't know much about Hoke, and happen to be fans of some of Michigan's rivals, believe it was a desperate hire. There are plenty of analysts who think exactly the opposite.

    It was more than that one sentence. He pretty much said that the hire of Hoke is the death of MSU pretty much, which is what really irked me. Just because he gave MSU credit doesn't negate the rest of his post. But thanks for answering the question. October can't get here fast enough.

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    Sp4rt4ns said... (original post)

    It was more than that one sentence. He pretty much said that the hire of Hoke is the death of MSU pretty much, which is what really irked me. Just because he gave MSU credit doesn't negate the rest of his post. But thanks for answering the question. October can't get here fast enough.

    Well...I think his argument about recruiting is logical, but it is going to take a lot for Hoke to secure all of the top in-state talent over a long period of time (making it unlikely). Like so many posts in this thread, it is just a lot of prognostication. I can't get too upset with when a poster makes an attempt to predict the future.

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    Well...I think his argument about recruiting is logical, but it is going to take a lot for Hoke to secure all of the top in-state talent over a long period of time (making it unlikely). Like so many posts in this thread, it is just a lot of prognostication. I can't get too upset with when a poster makes an attempt to predict the future.

    Yeah, it has a lot of validity if we don't continue to have on-field success or find a new recruiting niche, like Ohio, which we've been hitting hard since Dantonio has taken over.

  • Sp4rt4ns said... (original post)

    I was going off of this sentence, "With Michigan presumably returning to its past form under Hoke". And I have a serious question, Why do you think he is a good hire and will be a good coach. I honestly want to know why everyone thinks that. Other than bringing back a more power oriented offense to UM, he hasn't done a whole lot as a coach other than his final year at Ball and SDSU. To a lot of people, other than UM fans, it looked like a desperate hire.

    The only thing I would add to C_Woodson's response is that Hoke has won his conference coach of the year award 2 of the last 3 years. Doing it one time at a dismall program could be a fluke, doing it twice has to make you think that something maybe there.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Obviously since you can read the future, what are tomorrow's powerball numbers?

    I would also appreciate the powerball numbers if someone is passing them out.

  • Can you guys please adopt "hokeamania" if Hoke is doing awesome? Because that would be hilarious. Probably less funny if you beat my Spartans but I'd probably laugh again a week later.

  • Imagine that. Michigan fans are excited about their new coach who, by ALL accounts, has done a remarkable job of recruiting while MSU fans hate Michigan fans and all things Blue. Who'da thunk it. lol

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    HAIL

  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Can you guys please adopt "hokeamania" if Hoke is doing awesome? Because that would be hilarious. Probably less funny if you beat my Spartans but I'd probably laugh again a week later.

    My sig on TOS used to be Hokeamania lol.

    Here it was.

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    Go Blue and Go Titans!

  • I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.

    Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter.

  • spartanstate said... (original post)

    I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.

    Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter.

    The majority of those in-state players had early offers from both schools, I think MD was caught a bit off guard with how quick these kids (particularly MO, a spartan fan growing up) committed to Michigan. And I'm hard pressed to believe you guys are getting BETTER players out of state. I'm sure you'll pick up a 3 star here and there from the east coast, but the majority of states higher ranked talent usually comes from the midwest.

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  • spartanstate said... (original post)

    I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.

    Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter.

    I'm just going to assume this is a post just designed to bait Michigan fans.

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    spartanstate said... (original post)

    I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.

    Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter.

    Cooled on Ross? Do you really believe MSU is going to get a better player OOS than him?

    I believe Hoke is 10-0 in head-to-head battles with Dantonio this year. How many more recruiting victories does he need at this point?

  • c_woodson said... (original post)

    Cooled on Ross? Do you really believe MSU is going to get a better player OOS than him?

    I believe Hoke is 10-0 in head-to-head battles with Dantonio this year. How many more recruiting victories does he need at this point?

    We are hitting Texas pretty hard right now and TX is a state that produces lots of talent. I don't know if those prospects are going to be better than Ross, but there is a chance. We are also recruiting Pennsylvania, NJ and Maryland pretty hard which are also states who produce some good prospects every year.

    I don't know how you classify "head to head battles", but I assumed that Michigan and Michigan St. needed to be in the top two to be considered a "head to head battle." But, if you count just offering then yes Hoke is killing Dantonio in the state of Michigan.

    I think so far the biggest head to head battle was for MO. Down the line I can see us going head to head for Obrien and Burbridge(if he qualifies). It will be interesting if you guys offer O'Connor because he is a plan A guy for us, but at this time does not have an offer from Michigan.

  • spartanstate said... (original post)

    We are hitting Texas pretty hard right now and TX is a state that produces lots of talent. I don't know if those prospects are going to be better than Ross, but there is a chance. We are also recruiting Pennsylvania, NJ and Maryland pretty hard which are also states who produce some good prospects every year.

    I don't know how you classify "head to head battles", but I assumed that Michigan and Michigan St. needed to be in the top two to be considered a "head to head battle." But, if you count just offering then yes Hoke is killing Dantonio in the state of Michigan.

    I think so far the biggest head to head battle was for MO. Down the line I can see us going head to head for Obrien and Burbridge(if he qualifies). It will be interesting if you guys offer O'Connor because he is a plan A guy for us, but at this time does not have an offer from Michigan.

    You said in your previous post that you guys were recruiting talent that would be "equal or better" to the instate talent Michigan already has. I'm not saying that Dantonio isn't going to find some diamond in the rough 3 star kids (he is good at finding sleepers, I'll give you that), but to expect highly touted kids to leave places like Texas seems a bit overly optimistic.

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  • KRGoBlue said... (original post)

    You said in your previous post that you guys were recruiting talent that would be "equal or better" to the instate talent Michigan already has. I'm not saying that Dantonio isn't going to find some diamond in the rough 3 star kids (he is good at finding sleepers, I'll give you that), but to expect highly touted kids to leave places like Texas seems a bit overly optimistic.

    I was basically saying what you are saying about Dantonio. He really has a good eye for talent and developing players. I'm not saying that rankings don't matter, but in the end I think some of the kids we get out of state could end up being better than some of the instate guys this year. That is what I meant when I said we can get kids out of state equal or better.

    This post was edited by spartanstate 3 years ago

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    spartanstate said... (original post)

    We are hitting Texas pretty hard right now and TX is a state that produces lots of talent. I don't know if those prospects are going to be better than Ross, but there is a chance. We are also recruiting Pennsylvania, NJ and Maryland pretty hard which are also states who produce some good prospects every year.

    I don't know how you classify "head to head battles", but I assumed that Michigan and Michigan St. needed to be in the top two to be considered a "head to head battle." But, if you count just offering then yes Hoke is killing Dantonio in the state of Michigan.

    I think so far the biggest head to head battle was for MO. Down the line I can see us going head to head for Obrien and Burbridge(if he qualifies). It will be interesting if you guys offer O'Connor because he is a plan A guy for us, but at this time does not have an offer from Michigan.

    The fact is MSU lands about 1 prospect per year that isn't from Michigan or Ohio that is rated as a 4-star. So the chances that MSU lands a LB OOS of Ross's caliber are slim. It'll be interesting to see how many 4-star players MSU lands from states other than Michigan and Ohio this year. It's kind of an indicator of national recruiting power.

    I consider any battle will kids have offers from both schools to be head-to-head. Very rarely does a kid say that Michigan and MSU are his top two (as is the case with Burbridge). Often times we hear about a final four, at best.

  • O'Connor is trying to visit us this weekend and may even camp. This recruiting nationally crap is not true. Dantonio knows just like everyone else knows you secure your backyard first. Not to mention we are in on tons of big time recruits we have 4 and 5 star players moving up their visit dates to come and see us because we are filling up so quickly. Other players that have committed elsewhere are talking about how they still want to get out to Michigan and see what that is all about. I'm sorry but the Hoke hire changed a LOT of people's perception about the direction of the Michigan program, and it has all been positive.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    c_woodson said... (original post)

    The fact is MSU lands about 1 prospect per year that isn't from Michigan or Ohio that is rated as a 4-star. So the chances that MSU lands a LB OOS of Ross's caliber are slim. It'll be interesting to see how many 4-star players MSU lands from states other than Michigan and Ohio this year. It's kind of an indicator of national recruiting power.

    I consider any battle will kids have offers from both schools to be head-to-head. Very rarely does a kid say that Michigan and MSU are his top two (as is the case with Burbridge). Often times we hear about a final four, at best.

    FWIW, things are looking pretty good for MSU and Jaleel Johnson. MSU is the only set visit he has this summer, though he did say he would make an effort to make it to TN later on this summer.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    MichLash30 said... (original post)

    O'Connor is trying to visit us this weekend and may even camp. This recruiting nationally crap is not true. Dantonio knows just like everyone else knows you secure your backyard first. Not to mention we are in on tons of big time recruits we have 4 and 5 star players moving up their visit dates to come and see us because we are filling up so quickly. Other players that have committed elsewhere are talking about how they still want to get out to Michigan and see what that is all about. I'm sorry but the Hoke hire changed a LOT of people's perception about the direction of the Michigan program, and it has all been positive.

    Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.

    You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • Did not say anything about dominating Dantonio. I am commenting on the defense that most spartans are giving right now. The fact that MSU is recruiting "Nationally". So is Hoke he snatched up as many top recruits as he could get in the state and has since focused on out of state talent. Our staff has been to California, Georgia, Texas, Florida, and New York. Not to mention everywhere in between. These guys are doing work.

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    FWIW, things are looking pretty good for MSU and Jaleel Johnson. MSU is the only set visit he has this summer, though he did say he would make an effort to make it to TN later on this summer.

    I've seen the most recent interview. I take all interviews for team specific sites with a grain of salt. Not saying Johnson won't pick MSU, but he is still a ways out from his decision.

  • Seriously?
    I love the oos recruiting that is supposedly going on by msU. First off UofM has the #2,3,& #9 MLB in the nation according to s. w two of those commits being the top two LB's in the state also the highest ranked in state DB as well as a host of others interested in the program. msU fans boast as much if not more than o$u fans i've never heard sooooo much rederick in these boards it's stupid no one can predict the future and all we can go on is facts and the facts are msU is getting their a$$es handed to them in recruiting if you look at the recruiting boards mD doesn't even have higher prospects targeted and why is this??? Because msU is a basketball school trying to build it's football program. No disrepect to msU but you are not a national power and winning a big 10 championship every 20-40 years doesn't make you a national power but in your minds it may.

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  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.

    You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.

    (Asking seriously here) Of those 11, how many were 4 star recruits?

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