The Blue Board

We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

Boards ▾

The Blue Board

We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

The Green Board

Where the madness isn't just in March.

Reply

The Official Michigan State and Michigan Thread

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.

    You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.

    And Memphis took players from 12 states; # of states =/= national recruiting power. MSU does not have national leverage.

    “I am going to treat you all the same . . . Like Dogs.” - Bo

  • MichLash30 said... (original post)

    Did not say anything about dominating Dantonio. I am commenting on the defense that most spartans are giving right now. The fact that MSU is recruiting "Nationally". So is Hoke he snatched up as many top recruits as he could get in the state and has since focused on out of state talent. Our staff has been to California, Georgia, Texas, Florida, and New York. Not to mention everywhere in between. These guys are doing work.

    IMO a lot of the national recruits will want to see how you guys do this year and won't respond to the pressure tactic as much as the ohio/michigan kids. That being said, it shouldn't surprise any State fans when UM does great on the recruiting trail, they always have.

    The same can be said for MSU. If we can put together a successful season, I think the number of out of state 4 stars will increase this year.

    Hoke has done a great job in MI so far. I don't think the same type of sweep will happen in years to come, but time will tell.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    KRGoBlue said... (original post)

    (Asking seriously here) Of those 11, how many were 4 star recruits?

    2 according to Rivals, 3 according to Scout (2 of the Scout 4 stars were 3-stars on Rivals).

    I admit MSU isn't at the point where it's going to go out and pull 12 4-stars from all over the nation. In order to build our national profile, MSU needs to build connections with different programs in different states.

    4 states where that's happening are PA, NJ, GA and FL. I'm not expecting to roll in and pull a top 5 kid out of FL, but there are inroads being built, and the more MSU wins, the more the profile is raised.

    As far as at home, MSU appears to be in much better shape with Danny O'Brien than a month ago. Not guaranteeing we're getting him, but MSU hasn't abandoned the state of MI to UM yet.

    Quite frankly I'm enjoying watching MSU fight for recruits, even when we aren't getting them because it shows that the staff isn't backing down. Every year MSU has expanded its recruiting and it's no surprise we're making an effort out there.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.

    You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.

    Enough with the going national excuse. Coach D stated when he took over that winning the state of Michigan was the key and foundation to your program. You can't do that now so you are looking outside of Michigan to build since Hoke seems to have the state on lock down.

    Somebody else already mentioned Memphis having 12 recruits from different states, are they going "national"?
    Vandy had recruits from 13 states, are they now going "national"?
    Marshall had recruits from 12 states, are they going "national"?
    Buffalo had recrutis from 12 states and provinces, are they going "national"?
    ...
    ...
    ...

    Try and find another way to spin it, going "national" isn't the answer.

  • spartanstate said... (original post)

    I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.

    Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter.

    "Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits?"
    bs_sign You're kidding, right?
    Godin - offered by both schools
    Richardson - not offered by State but WAS offered by Bama, LSU, ND, OSU, Oklahoma, Penn St, and USC. Oh wait. I know. He doesn't fit into DANTONIO'S scheme. Right.
    Ross - offered by both schools
    Royce Jenkins-Stone - offered by both schools
    Ojemudia and Funchess - offered by both schools AND come from the best high school pipeline Sparty has ever known.
    Ben Braden - offered by both schools
    That's just the IN STATE kids.
    Pharaoh Brown and AJ Williams also have Sparty offers.

    Would you like a moment to reconsider your claim?

    "Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing, the I will concede that he is a good recruiter"
    roflmaoSon, your opinion on what a good recruiter is has been deemed irrelevant thanks to your previous statement.

    This post was edited by Due51 3 years ago

    signature image signature image signature image

    HAIL

  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    You can't do that now so you are looking outside of Michigan to build since Hoke seems to have the state on lock down.

    One year, which set up perfect for UM, and Hoke has the state on lock down already?

    I, for one, am not worried about the recruits Coach D brings in, he has proven he can find talent. When State keeps winning, with the talent he has already found, it will be easier to get the higher ranked prospects.

  • spewing oil said... (original post)

    One year, which set up perfect for UM, and Hoke has the state on lock down already?

    I, for one, am not worried about the recruits Coach D brings in, he has proven he can find talent. When State keeps winning, with the talent he has already found, it will be easier to get the higher ranked prospects.

    My only argument is.....what happens when Michigan starts winning again? Then what? You don't honestly think Michigan is going to repeat the three worst years in the history of it's 132 years of playing football, do you?

    Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet kids are jumping on board unlike anything seen since.....who knows when. Ever? What happens if he and his coaches actually get his defense to play just ALRIGHT? And the offense, although a step back from last year's flash, becomes more well rounded and consistent? And he finds a kicker? What happens then? And what happens if, after Cousins leaves, Maxwell doesn't play quite as well because he loses his best receivers?

    I'm just asking. Your statement is repeated a lot on the RCMB but nobody ever considers that Rich Rod isn't coaching at Michigan anymore. Every other coach at Michigan since you and I have been alive has absolutely owned MSU.

    Do those scenarios ever cross your mind?

    signature image signature image signature image

    HAIL

  • Due51 said... (original post)

    My only argument is.....what happens when Michigan starts winning again? Then what? You don't honestly think Michigan is going to repeat the three worst years in the history of it's 132 years of playing football, do you?

    Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet kids are jumping on board unlike anything seen since.....who knows when. Ever? What happens if he and his coaches actually get his defense to play just ALRIGHT? And the offense, although a step back from last year's flash, becomes more well rounded and consistent? And he finds a kicker? What happens then? And what happens if, after Cousins leaves, Maxwell doesn't play quite as well because he loses his best receivers?

    I'm just asking. Your statement is repeated a lot on the RCMB but nobody ever considers that Rich Rod isn't coaching at Michigan anymore. Every other coach at Michigan since you and I have been alive has absolutely owned MSU.

    Do those scenarios ever cross your mind?

    I don't like to see UM winning big, I'll be honest. But I don't want to see them be garbage either. Sure, I can see UM getting better in the future, but I could also see Hoke being over his head just as easily.

    If you are asking me can State win if UM is good? I would say yes. Do I expect to see State win 4 out of 4 games against UM? No, I think it will be a hard fought rivalry going forward.

    I'm not going to lose my mind over one in state recruiting class. In the end it isn't going to matter that much. If it keeps happening year after year then it will be an issue, but no one can say if it will or won't right now.

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    Due51 said... (original post)

    My only argument is.....what happens when Michigan starts winning again? Then what? You don't honestly think Michigan is going to repeat the three worst years in the history of it's 132 years of playing football, do you?

    Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet kids are jumping on board unlike anything seen since.....who knows when. Ever? What happens if he and his coaches actually get his defense to play just ALRIGHT? And the offense, although a step back from last year's flash, becomes more well rounded and consistent? And he finds a kicker? What happens then? And what happens if, after Cousins leaves, Maxwell doesn't play quite as well because he loses his best receivers?

    I'm just asking. Your statement is repeated a lot on the RCMB but nobody ever considers that Rich Rod isn't coaching at Michigan anymore. Every other coach at Michigan since you and I have been alive has absolutely owned MSU.

    Do those scenarios ever cross your mind?

    That is way too many "what ifs" even for the biggest of homers.

  • The only thing that I want to know is, what is going to happen if MSU misses on some of these recruits that they are going after out of state? MSU doesn't have the top instate recruits to fall back on like they did during UM's RickRod era anymore.

  • 247Sports

    GoingLightBarny

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I'd like to apologize to all the Blue Boarders who have seen our crazy back and forth arguments over the past few weeks. I thought it'd be a good idea to keep our sibling rivalry to one thread, so the rest of you can debate things like the hottest porn star, or what you're making for dinner, or what the best hypothetical recruiting class could. Or even how many times Barney was dropped on his head as a child. confused

    Alright fans, here's what's gone down.

    1) Hoke's off to a great start in recruiting for 2012

    2) MSU has the better team this year and the game's at MSU

    3) Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet for you guys

    4) Switch in schemes are always interesting

    5) I love pancakes.

    6) 2012 recruits will not be on the field in 2011

    7) I think MSU extends our winning streak over you guys to at least 5 games.

    Let the flaming/bitching/fighting/discussion (hopefully!) begin!

    hurrr deee hurrrrr....

    spelt it wrong, mrs sensitive

    signature image signature image signature image

    www.yohoodent.com ... errybawdee awn ignorle

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    "Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits?" You're kidding, right? Godin - offered by both schools Richardson - not offered by State but WAS offered by Bama, LSU, ND, OSU, Oklahoma, Penn St, and USC. Oh wait. I know. He doesn't fit into DANTONIO'S scheme. Right. Ross - offered by both schools Royce Jenkins-Stone - offered by both schools Ojemudia and Funchess - offered by both schools AND come from the best high school pipeline Sparty has ever known. Ben Braden - offered by both schools That's just the IN STATE kids. Pharaoh Brown and AJ Williams also have Sparty offers.

    Would you like a moment to reconsider your claim?

    "Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing, the I will concede that he is a good recruiter" Son, your opinion on what a good recruiter is has been deemed irrelevant thanks to your previous statement.

    FWIW, I'd assume Renaissance is a better pipeline than FHH. 2 4-stars and a 5-star to MSU in the past 3 years.

    The rest, I'm not going to come close to arguing with you about. You're beating us fair and square for multiple recruits.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    FWIW, I'd assume Renaissance is a better pipeline than FHH. 2 4-stars and a 5-star to MSU in the past 3 years.

    The rest, I'm not going to come close to arguing with you about. You're beating us fair and square for multiple recruits.

    And I won't argue that it doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless we win.

    signature image signature image signature image

    HAIL

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    Enough with the going national excuse. Coach D stated when he took over that winning the state of Michigan was the key and foundation to your program. You can't do that now so you are looking outside of Michigan to build since Hoke seems to have the state on lock down.

    Somebody else already mentioned Memphis having 12 recruits from different states, are they going "national"? Vandy had recruits from 13 states, are they now going "national"? Marshall had recruits from 12 states, are they going "national"? Buffalo had recrutis from 12 states and provinces, are they going "national"? ... ... ...

    Try and find another way to spin it, going "national" isn't the answer.

    Look. MSU hasn't gotten loads for 4-star talent consistently since the 60s. Right now we're building the program on mid to high 3-star guys with enough elite athletes to put us over the top. While we may not find those elite athletes in abundance outside of MI or OH, we can find plenty of those mid to high level 3-star guys from all over the country.

    Right now the count for highly recruited athletes is approximately 1 5-star (Gholston, consensus 5-star) and between 16-20 4-stars depending on whether you use Scout or Rivals ( For instance, Donovan Clark from the 2011 class is a 4-star on Scout, but a 3-star on Rivals, Brandon Clemons is a 4-star on Rivals but a 3-star on Scout, etc.).

    I feel that MSU can win a lot of games with that amount of high-end talent. In order to maintain that, MSU needs to recruit 4-6 4-star/5-star guys each class. The bigger key, IMHO, is keeping the talent "floor" to just a few 2-star diamonds in the rough each year. In 2007 and 2008 MSU took 7+ 2-stars; that number has gone down each of the past 3 classes to the point that the 2011 class had just 2 2-star athletes in it.

    Look, in order to compete with the true "big boys" year in and year out, you generally need very very strong recruiting. That is MSU's ultimate goal, but it's not going to happen overnight; as someone pointed out, MSU does not have a strong national presence. That's something that takes years to build, though MSU's championship last year definitely raised our profile.

    In order to raise your profile, you need to win 8-10 games consistently and be viewed as a winning program. I believe that can (and will) be achieved with MSU's current level of recruiting. Right now we have 4 recruits, none of which should be lower than 3-stars, and one (McGowan) is getting serious 4-star consideration. That's in line with MSU's current talent level: 25% high-end, 75% "solid".

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    FWIW, I'd assume Renaissance is a better pipeline than FHH. 2 4-stars and a 5-star to MSU in the past 3 years.

    The rest, I'm not going to come close to arguing with you about. You're beating us fair and square for multiple recruits.


    I wouldn't keep Renaissance in the MSU Pipeline myself, or at a minimum see how future high profile recruits from there fall. With the coaching staff being let go MSU doesn't have itself as solidly in the door as previous years.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    Look. MSU hasn't gotten loads for 4-star talent consistently since the 60s. Right now we're building the program on mid to high 3-star guys with enough elite athletes to put us over the top. While we may not find those elite athletes in abundance outside of MI or OH, we can find plenty of those mid to high level 3-star guys from all over the country.

    Right now the count for highly recruited athletes is approximately 1 5-star (Gholston, consensus 5-star) and between 16-20 4-stars depending on whether you use Scout or Rivals ( For instance, Donovan Clark from the 2011 class is a 4-star on Scout, but a 3-star on Rivals, Brandon Clemons is a 4-star on Rivals but a 3-star on Scout, etc.).

    I feel that MSU can win a lot of games with that amount of high-end talent. In order to maintain that, MSU needs to recruit 4-6 4-star/5-star guys each class. The bigger key, IMHO, is keeping the talent "floor" to just a few 2-star diamonds in the rough each year. In 2007 and 2008 MSU took 7+ 2-stars; that number has gone down each of the past 3 classes to the point that the 2011 class had just 2 2-star athletes in it.

    Look, in order to compete with the true "big boys" year in and year out, you generally need very very strong recruiting. That is MSU's ultimate goal, but it's not going to happen overnight; as someone pointed out, MSU does not have a strong national presence. That's something that takes years to build, though MSU's championship last year definitely raised our profile.

    In order to raise your profile, you need to win 8-10 games consistently and be viewed as a winning program. I believe that can (and will) be achieved with MSU's current level of recruiting. Right now we have 4 recruits, none of which should be lower than 3-stars, and one (McGowan) is getting serious 4-star consideration. That's in line with MSU's current talent level: 25% high-end, 75% "solid".

    Long story, short... MSU hasn't gone "national".

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    Long story, short... MSU hasn't gone "national".

    What's your definition of national?

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I feel that MSU can win a lot of games with that amount of high-end talent. In order to maintain that, MSU needs to recruit 4-6 4-star/5-star guys each class. The bigger key, IMHO, is keeping the talent "floor" to just a few 2-star diamonds in the rough each year. In 2007 and 2008 MSU took 7+ 2-stars; that number has gone down each of the past 3 classes to the point that the 2011 class had just 2 2-star athletes in it.

    in order to compete with the true "big boys" year in and year out, you generally need very very strong recruiting.

    In order to raise your profile, you need to win 8-10 games consistently and be viewed as a winning program. I believe that can (and will) be achieved with MSU's current level of recruiting. Right now we have 4 recruits, none of which should be lower than 3-stars, and one (McGowan) is getting serious 4-star consideration. That's in line with MSU's current talent level: 25% high-end, 75% "solid".

    My only gripe is that you and the majority on the RCMB neglect to recognize the same truths outlined in your manifestos for Hoke and Co. You could insert "UofM" in your statement above and the point would be equally valid. Yet, you guys would rather chide Michigan about "May recruiting championships" and "September Heismans."

    If State's future success is dependent on solid recruiting, then the same can be said for Michigan. Thus the giddy nature of Michigan fans who have witnessed Hoke waltz into town and rake in a #21 ranked class for 2011 after just 3 weeks on the job and (probably) Top 8 class for 2012.

    In short, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    signature image signature image signature image

    HAIL

  • Due51 said... (original post)

    My only gripe is that you and the majority on the RCMB neglect to recognize the same truths outlined in your manifestos for Hoke and Co. You could insert "UofM" in your statement above and the point would be equally valid. Yet, you guys would rather chide Michigan about "May recruiting championships" and "September Heismans."

    If State's future success is dependent on solid recruiting, then the same can be said for Michigan. Thus the giddy nature of Michigan fans who have witnessed Hoke waltz into town and rake in a #21 ranked class for 2011 after just 3 weeks on the job and (probably) Top 8 class for 2012.

    In short, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    The same can't be said about Michigan. Recruiting IS a big part of the game, but it's only half of the game. The other half is on the field, and that's why we "neglect to recognize" the same thing from Hoke and Co.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    What's your definition of national?

    I don't base it off of the # of states recruits came from like you have been stating over and over again. I look at Alabama, ND, tOSU, USC, Michigan, and the such, as teams that instantly draw interest because they offer a kid. These school are the ones that kids hope to get an offer from. MSU doesn't have that across the nation, yet.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    Due51 said... (original post)

    My only gripe is that you and the majority on the RCMB neglect to recognize the same truths outlined in your manifestos for Hoke and Co. You could insert "UofM" in your statement above and the point would be equally valid. Yet, you guys would rather chide Michigan about "May recruiting championships" and "September Heismans."

    If State's future success is dependent on solid recruiting, then the same can be said for Michigan. Thus the giddy nature of Michigan fans who have witnessed Hoke waltz into town and rake in a #21 ranked class for 2011 after just 3 weeks on the job and (probably) Top 8 class for 2012.

    In short, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    To me, it is a different situation for MSU and UM. Even when UM was recruiting at its best, Carr was averaging about 8.5 Ws/season. I don't know what it is, but it seems that MSU has been able to do more with less than UM. Whereas MSU seems to be o.k. with its current recruiting level, I feel that UM could not sustain the same success if it recruited at the same level as MSU. We'll see it play out over the next few years, but ND and UM seem to be 2 programs where the recruiting hype hasn't measured up on the field.

    I suppose that's why I'm more confident in MSU; we've turned multiple 2-star/3-star guys into All-league performers. I can't recall the last time a 2-star has blossomed at UM (please correct me if there are several such prospects). I think UM, because it's had great recruiting success, has problems identifying those developmental prospects, so that if UM isn't pulling a ton of 4-star talent, they're more feeling around in the dark for prospects the next level down on the recruiting rung.

    Make no mistake about it, MSU may not be pulling a ton of 4-stars, but we get plenty of high 3-star guys (9 in the 2011 class). It's really not like it's 4-star or bust for us.

    This post was edited by MalibuMan 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • TitanInsider

    CorchBlue

    SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    To me, it is a different situation for MSU and UM. Even when UM was recruiting at its best, Carr was averaging about 8.5 Ws/season. I don't know what it is, but it seems that MSU has been able to do more with less than UM. Whereas MSU seems to be o.k. with its current recruiting level, I feel that UM could not sustain the same success if it recruited at the same level as MSU. We'll see it play out over the next few years, but ND and UM seem to be 2 programs where the recruiting hype hasn't measured up on the field.

    I suppose that's why I'm more confident in MSU; we've turned multiple 2-star/3-star guys into All-league performers. I can't recall the last time a 2-star has blossomed at UM (please correct me if there are several such prospects). I think UM, because it's had great recruiting success, has problems identifying those developmental prospects, so that if UM isn't pulling a ton of 4-star talent, they're more feeling around in the dark for prospects the next level down on the recruiting rung.

    Make no mistake about it, MSU may not be pulling a ton of 4-stars, but we get plenty of high 3-star guys (9 in the 2011 class). It's really not like it's 4-star or bust for us.

    I know Mike Hart and Zoltan Mesko (all hail the space emperor, of space!) were only a 3 star recruits.

    signature image signature image

    Go Blue and Go Titans!

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I know Mike Hart and Zoltan Mesko (all hail the space emperor, of space!) were only a 3 star recruits.

    For a punter, a 3-star ranking is like getting 5-stars.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I know Mike Hart and Zoltan Mesko (all hail the space emperor, of space!) were only a 3 star recruits.

    3-stars for a kicker/punter is usually on the high-end. Anthony Fera (is he still with UM), was the number 2 rated kicker in the nation, according to rivals, was a 3 star.

  • Wolverine247

    c_woodson

    I'd say Mike Hart and David Harris are the best examples of 3-star kids that turned into studs over the second half of Carr's career. Braylon Edwards was also a 3-star I believe.

    RR has landed some quality sleepers as well including Omameh (2 stars).