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The Official Michigan State vs. Notre Dame Thread

  • steveschneider said... (original post)

    There season hasn't even become irrelevant yet. Couldn't a 10-2 record still get them into a BCS Bowl game?

    Hi Coach Holtz.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    Hi Coach Holtz.

    No joke. ND may beat MSU, but they are not going to a BCS bowl this year. At the very least Stanford will beat them, and maybe Maryland. Pitt looks dysfunctional, as does Purdue.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • steveschneider said... (original post)

    There season hasn't even become irrelevant yet. Couldn't a 10-2 record still get them into a BCS Bowl game?

    I'm not a Spartan fan, but there is zero chance ND beats MSU this weekend. Zero. If ND had trouble with UofM's passing game, MSU is going to carve them up. Additionally, excluding DRob, MSU has a much better running game than UofM right now. The only chance ND has is if MSU beats itself with a bunch of stupid turnovers because otherwise ND is not going to be able to stop MSU from scoring.

    That means, after this weekend, ND will have three losses with reasonably tough games remaining against Stanford, USC, Maryland, Pitt, Navy and Air Force. The only cupcakes left on their schedule will be Wake Forest, Purdue and BC, and two of those games are on the road. Notre Dame will be extremely lucky to go 8-4 this year and is more likely to come in at 7-5 or 6-6. It is going to be a major let down for Irish fans considering all the hype the program had at the beginning of the season.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by WingedHelmet 3 years ago

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I expect ND to come out like gangbusters in the first Q. If MSU can weather the storm, I like the Spartan's chances. If MSU is down 21-0 or something ridiculous like that after 1 . . . .

    Though the ND - UM game was exciting, there was some very sloppy football being played on both sides of the ball for both teams. I don't know how good MSU is right now, except I know they don't suck. That's just about all playing an FCS and a low-level Sun Belt team can tell you. MSU played like a good team should play . . . but all that gets the Spartans is a chance to prove their worth against ND.

    It's not even necessary to look at MSU's first two games. Just look at your personnel. Kirk Cousins is one of the best (very good accuracy and decision making) QB's in the country. You have three very good WRs. You have two or three very good RBs. Your offense is better than either South Florida's or UofM's. And, while South Florida's defense is good, UofM's was awful for much of the game this past Saturday. We stepped it up in some key situations, especially in the 4th quarter, but it's hard to believe MSU's defense will be materially worse.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by WingedHelmet 3 years ago

  • WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    I'm not a Spartan fan, but there is zero chance ND beats MSU this weekend. Zero. If ND had trouble with UofM's passing game, MSU is going to carve them up. Additionally, excluding DRob, MSU has a much better running game than UofM right now. The only chance ND has is to win is if MSU beats itself with a bunch of stupid turnovers because otherwise ND is not going to be able to stop MSU from scoring.

    That means, after this weekend, ND will have three losses with reasonably tough games remaining against Stanford, USC, Maryland, Pitt, Navy and Air Force. The only cupcakes left on their schedule will be Wake Forest, Purdue and BC, and two of those games are on the road. Notre Dame will be extremely lucky to go 8-4 this year and is more likely to come in at 7-5 or 6-6. It is going to be a major let down for Irish fans considering all the hype the program had at the beginning of the season.

    Not true it at all. While I do think MSU will win, giving ND a 0 percent chance is stupid. ND isn't a bad team, they just get too sloppy.

  • SpartanTailgate

    steveschneider

    WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    It's not even necessary to look at MSU's first two games. Just look at your personnel. Kirk Cousins is one of the best (very good accuracy and decision making) QB's in the country. You have three very good WRs. You have two or three very good RBs. Your offense is better than either South Florida's or UofM's. And, while South Florida's defense is good, UofM's was awful for much of the game this past Saturday. We stepped it up in some key situations, especially in the 4th quarter, but it's hard to believe MSU's defense will be materially worse.

    Both Spartanrocky and Jack Ebling on our board, two guy's who's football knowledge I respect anticipate it's going to be a super close affair.

    Jack says he had it as his 2nd toughest game for MSU to win preseason, and he hasn't seen anything to change his mind.

    I personally am standing by my analysis that I had last week for the UofM game. I've seen nothing out of Brian Kelly at ND that has told me he can win a game like this. I think there's a reason why he had to pull his QB after the 2nd Quarter, I think there's a reason why his DB was getting torched, I think there's a reason why he was caught completely off guard during little giants and then chewed out his coordinator...the guy loves to blow up at others and hold them accountable, but pretty soon he'll have to be held accountable for the poor play.

    signature image
  • WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    I'm not a Spartan fan, but there is zero chance ND beats MSU this weekend. Zero. If ND had trouble with UofM's passing game, MSU is going to carve them up. Additionally, excluding DRob, MSU has a much better running game than UofM right now. The only chance ND has is if MSU beats itself with a bunch of stupid turnovers because otherwise ND is not going to be able to stop MSU from scoring.

    That means, after this weekend, ND will have three losses with reasonably tough games remaining against Stanford, USC, Maryland, Pitt, Navy and Air Force. The only cupcakes left on their schedule will be Wake Forest, Purdue and BC, and two of those games are on the road. Notre Dame will be extremely lucky to go 8-4 this year and is more likely to come in at 7-5 or 6-6. It is going to be a major let down for Irish fans considering all the hype the program had at the beginning of the season.

    I hate ND football more than any team in any sport, but to say that a team with top 10-20 talent has zero chance of winning is just plain dumb.

    This post was edited by xxmgobluexx 3 years ago

  • WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    It's not even necessary to look at MSU's first two games. Just look at your personnel. Kirk Cousins is one of the best (very good accuracy and decision making) QB's in the country. You have three very good WRs. You have two or three very good RBs. Your offense is better than either South Florida's or UofM's. And, while South Florida's defense is good, UofM's was awful for much of the game this past Saturday. We stepped it up in some key situations, especially in the 4th quarter, but it's hard to believe MSU's defense will be materially worse.

    Having a good QB, good RBs, good WRs don't mean sh!t if there are no holes and no time to pass. Michigan's Oline is tons better that States, and they had a hard a time opening holes against NDs front 7.

  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    I hate ND football more than any team in any sport, but to say that a team with top 10-20 talent has zero chance of winning is just plan dumb.

    Saying ND has top 10-20 talent is just plain dumb. I watched them all last year. I watched them against South Florida. And I was at the game on Saturday. I don't know what that is, but it's not top 10-20 talent.

  • bb011 said... (original post)

    Not true it at all. While I do think MSU will win, giving ND a 0 percent chance is stupid. ND isn't a bad team, they just get too sloppy.

    As far as the scoreboard is concerned, a bad team and a sloppy team are the same. Either you put up more points than the other team or you don't. Whether you fail to score because you are not particularly athletic or are poorly coached or are just "sloppy" doesn't make any difference. You still fail to score. The same applies to defense. If ND is "sloppy" this Saturday on defense, Kirk Cousins and MSU's WRs are going to carve them up.

    This post was edited by WingedHelmet 3 years ago

  • ErnieMcCracken said... (original post)

    I did not see a single ND poster in this thread and these guys have a board here. Star posts here all the time so if that poster cannot even participate in this thread then that tells you all you need to know.

    You rang, sorry I had to step away from things after another disaster. Will be back later, then we can discuss the upcoming game and the debacle that was Michigan.

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  • WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    Saying ND has top 10-20 talent is just plain dumb. I watched them all last year. I watched them against South Florida. And I was at the game on Saturday. I don't know what that is, but it's not top 10-20 talent.

    0 chance then, got it.

  • xxmgobluexx said... (original post)

    0 chance then, got it.

    It's called a figure of speech. Or hyperbole. The point is that I think that MSU is very likely to win the game. Of course it's not literally zero. Don't be an idiot.

  • WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    It's called a figure of speech. Or hyperbole. The point is that I think that MSU is very likely to win the game. Of course it's not literally zero. Don't be an idiot.

    My bad, 0 doesn't = 0.

    Whatever, I want ND to lose anyway.

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    As far as the scoreboard is concerned, a bad team and a sloppy team are the same. Either you put up more points than the other team or you don't. Whether you fail to score because you are not particularly athletic or are poorly coached or are just "sloppy" doesn't make any difference. You still fail to score. The same applies to defense. If ND is "sloppy" this Saturday on defense, Kirk Cousins and MSU's WRs are going to carve them up.

    The issue is that outside of TOs, ND has looked pretty good, 4th Q against UM aside. It's not as though their 500 yards of O was based on a few fluke plays; ND can move the ball down the field effectively.

    Right now, ND is on pace for 60 TOs, 1 shy of the NCAA single season record. It's hard to imagine them staying on that pace. So the question is whether they're going to do more of the same against MSU, or if they're going to be more disciplined. I lean towards the latter.

    That's not to say that MSU needs 5 ND TOs to win; as you pointed out, MSU is probably an overall stronger team than either USF or UM. That is NOT to take anything away from UM; that's the way the ball bounces and UM capitalized. Hats off to you.

    I do expect a very competitive game on Saturday between MSU and ND. ND has to win to have a chance at a BCS game and it's the Spartan's first road game as well as the first game against a BCS conf. type opponent. Though I love Cousins and have a lot of faith in a 5th year SR QB on the road, the Spartans need to prove they can win a tough road game.

    I do agree that if ND is as sloppy against MSU as they were against UM/USF, MSU should win and win big. I'm just assuming that they won't be that sloppy.

    This post was edited by MalibuMan 3 years ago

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    As far as the scoreboard is concerned, a bad team and a sloppy team are the same. Either you put up more points than the other team or you don't. Whether you fail to score because you are not particularly athletic or are poorly coached or are just "sloppy" doesn't make any difference. You still fail to score. The same applies to defense. If ND is "sloppy" this Saturday on defense, Kirk Cousins and MSU's WRs are going to carve them up.

    Not true at all. The turnovers that they have given up the first 2 games can be correctable. That is totally different than not having the talent at QB,rb, Oline to be able to move the ball. Not having the talent is much more worrisome since that isn't something that can just change.

  • My main concern is that ND has been able to move the ball in both their games. If they didn't have bone headed turnovers, they would likely be 2-0. I assume by game 3 they won't be turning the ball over 5 times a game. They are backed up into a corner. We'll see how they respond.

    I still can't believe just how many times ND has pooped themselves this year and it's only been 2 weeks of games. What is up with that Rees kid? He looks great at times and then just drops the ball in a dry environment. He'll make the stupidest plays and just F it up. I don't get it.

    I still think we win. ND has a lot of problems that come down to fundamentals like tucking the ball away, stupid penalties, and lack of awareness on the field. It could be a long year for the Irish.

  • SpartanTailgate

    steveschneider

    Harry Callahan said... (original post)

    My main concern is that ND has been able to move the ball in both their games. If they didn't have bone headed turnovers, they would likely be 2-0. I assume by game 3 they won't be turning the ball over 5 times a game. They are backed up into a corner. We'll see how they respond.

    I still can't believe just how many times ND has pooped themselves this year and it's only been 2 weeks of games. What is up with that Rees kid? He looks great at times and then just drops the ball in a dry environment. He'll make the stupidest plays and just F it up. I don't get it.

    I still think we win. ND has a lot of problems that come down to fundamentals like tucking the ball away, stupid penalties, and lack of awareness on the field. It could be a long year for the Irish.

    Not to mention we always play them well. We've won 8 out of the last 10 there. They can clean up their turnover problem and I still believe that we are going to give them a run for their money.

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  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    The issue is that outside of TOs, ND has looked pretty good, 4th Q against UM aside. It's not as though their 500 yards of O was based on a few fluke plays; ND can move the ball down the field effectively.

    Right now, ND is on pace for 60 TOs, 1 shy of the NCAA single season record. It's hard to imagine them staying on that pace. So the question is whether they're going to do more of the same against MSU, or if they're going to be more disciplined. I lean towards the latter.

    That's not to say that MSU needs 5 ND TOs to win; as you pointed out, MSU is probably an overall stronger team than either USF or UM. That is NOT to take anything away from UM; that's the way the ball bounces and UM capitalized. Hats off to you.

    I do expect a very competitive game on Saturday between MSU and ND. ND has to win to have a chance at a BCS game and it's the Spartan's first road game as well as the first game against a BCS conf. type opponent. Though I love Cousins and have a lot of faith in a 5th year SR QB on the road, the Spartans need to prove they can win a tough road game.

    I do agree that if ND is as sloppy against MSU as they were against UM/USF, MSU should win and win big. I'm just assuming that they won't be that sloppy.

    First of all, turnovers matter. You cannot just exclude them because it's convenient to your argument. As a die-hard Michigan fan, I know a lot about turnovers and they just don't stop happening overnight because the coach spends some extra time in practice working on them. Rees is an inexperienced QB and he has been very turnover prone in both his games this year. If I had to take a wild guess, I would expect we will see additional turnovers by him against MSU. Second, ND has many more problems than turnovers. We scored on them twice within the last 2 minutes in situations where they knew we had to pass. And, I love DRob to death, but when it comes to passing he is no Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. The storyline about the great turnaround in ND's defense in the second half of last season - the one we had to listen to all offseason because they beat USC in the rain without Barkley and Miami in a bowl because Jacory Harris is a pick machine - is a myth.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by WingedHelmet 3 years ago

  • Harry Callahan said... (original post)

    My main concern is that ND has been able to move the ball in both their games. If they didn't have bone headed turnovers, they would likely be 2-0. I assume by game 3 they won't be turning the ball over 5 times a game. They are backed up into a corner. We'll see how they respond.

    I still can't believe just how many times ND has pooped themselves this year and it's only been 2 weeks of games. What is up with that Rees kid? He looks great at times and then just drops the ball in a dry environment. He'll make the stupidest plays and just F it up. I don't get it.

    I still think we win. ND has a lot of problems that come down to fundamentals like tucking the ball away, stupid penalties, and lack of awareness on the field. It could be a long year for the Irish.

    Sorry, but to some extent, that is why they have so many turnovers. Tommy Rees, an inexperienced QB, is throwing a lot. And he has laser focus googly eyes for Michael Floyd (for good reason). He is going to get rattled. He is going to make more mistakes than an experienced QB, like Kirk Cousins. He is not going to be able to read defenses (especially when the other team is good at disguising them) or go through his progressions efficiently. He is going to be turnover prone, and when you combine that with the high rate of passing that BK uses in his system, you end up with a ton of passing yards and a high turnover ratio. You cannot give ND credit for moving the ball effectively (based on yardage, not points) but discount the turnovers. They go hand in hand.

    This post was edited by WingedHelmet 3 years ago

  • Wolverine247

    Ducksworth

    The argument, though, is that turnovers will most likely be stressed more than anything this week for ND. It's a must-win for them, and they would have won both games if they didn't turn the ball over. That doesn't mean we're not counting turnovers, that's just saying that if they fix that one thing, they're a 2-0, top 15 team (they wouldn't deserve to be top 15, but they would be).

    Think about the Michigan game. We lose the game if Rees doesn't inexplicably throw the ball backwards with about 2-3 minutes left on our 10 yard line. You can't expect them to always make those same mistakes. I'm fairly confident they'll correct that and not have 4-5 TO's again. That will make them a much better team.

    I think MSU wins, but ND has a lot going for them. They're not a bad team, and they have so much to play for.

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  • Wolverine247

    Ducksworth

    Question for Rocky or any other Spartan:

    What are your thoughts on how to deal with Michael Floyd? Doesn't seem like you have a good enough CB to shut him down (not sure if anyone does..), so is it kind of a bend-don't break mentality on him? How are you hoping to deal with him, and do you have any ideas to contain him? That dude is a freak.

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  • steveschneider said... (original post)

    Not to mention we always play them well. We've won 8 out of the last 10 there. They can clean up their turnover problem and I still believe that we are going to give them a run for their money.

    ^^^^ THIS ^^^^

    Exactly. MSU is not intimidated by ND or ND Stadium. You play them every year and beat them in South Bend all the time. And, absent turnovers, it is reasonable to think that the game will be close. But where in the world is the basis for assuming that they suddenly will go from five turnovers a game to zero (or even one)?

    Look, I do not like MSU and have no reason to wish them anything good. I don't like ND either, but MSU and their fans have been much more annoying lately and I would be thrilled to see them drop a very winnable game early in the season. I am just looking at the situation objectively. MSU played better football than ND last year (frequently much better) and you have all of your offensive skill positions back. Yes, you have some issues on the OL, but that does not mean your OL is incompetent. And, yes, you lost some very good LBs, but again that does not mean the replacements suck.

    ND might clean up some of their "sloppy" play this week, but that is not guaranteed. And there is no evidence that suddenly they are going to be flawless. If MSU loses, it is far more likely to be because MSU makes a bunch of mistakes than ND suddenly comes out as top 10 caliber team. If it were that easy for ND to clean up the mistakes they have been making, they would have done it between games one and two.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by WingedHelmet 3 years ago

  • SpartanTailgate

    SpartanRocky

    WingedHelmet said... (original post)

    First of all, turnovers matter. You cannot just exclude them because it's convenient to your argument. As die-hard Michigan fan, I know a lot about turnovers and they just don't stop happening overnight because the coach spends some extra time in practice working on them. Rees is a very inexperienced QB and he has been very turnover prone in both his games this year. If I had to take a wild guess, I would expect we will see additional turnovers by him again against MSU. Second, ND has many more problems than turnovers. We scored on them twice within the last 2 minutes in situations where they knew we had to pass. And, I love DRob to death, but when it comes to passing he is no Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. The storyline about the great turnaround in ND's defense in the second half of last season - the one we had to listen to all offseason because they beat USC in the rain without Barkley and Miami in a bowl because Jacory Harris is a pick machine - is a myth.

    I'm not saying that turnovers are irrelevant, just that expecting ND to continue turning the ball over at the same pace seems overly optimistic. I'd still expect them to cough it up a couple times on Sat, but keep in mind that both USF and UM needed every single one of those TOs to beat ND.

    The INTs I agree with 100%. Fumbles are a much more random occurrence though, and half of ND's TOs in their first 2 games are fumbles. I mean, Rees goes back to pass and just drops the football. How many times is that going to happen in a year?

    I'm just saying that MSU fans shouldn't focus on ND's TOs as the reason why the Spartans will win. MSU does have several other advantages that they can exploit, and I'm very excited to see Martin return Turek's punts.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

  • SpartanRocky said... (original post)

    I'm not saying that turnovers are irrelevant, just that expecting ND to continue turning the ball over at the same pace seems overly optimistic. I'd still expect them to cough it up a couple times on Sat, but keep in mind that both USF and UM needed every single one of those TOs to beat ND.

    The INTs I agree with 100%. Fumbles are a much more random occurrence though, and half of ND's TOs in their first 2 games are fumbles. I mean, Rees goes back to pass and just drops the football. How many times is that going to happen in a year?

    I'm just saying that MSU fans shouldn't focus on ND's TOs as the reason why the Spartans will win. MSU does have several other advantages that they can exploit, and I'm very excited to see Martin return Turek's punts.

    MSU is better than both UofM and South Florida. If ND turns the ball over five times this Saturday you will beat them by two or three touchdowns.