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Dems/Liberals I have an earnest Q.......

  • zabba said...

    I had to show my ID when I voted in Arizona. I don't know how other states do their thing.

    ACLU blocking it maybe? Some sort of civil liberties argument?

    /independent voter.

    DOJ blocked it because the state of Texas had not proved it doesn't discriminate the Latino voters in their state as compliant with the Voting Rights Act of '67.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • fsufsu said...

    I already stated I honestly was hoping there was a good explanation. I am pro America and even though I am conservative I would cheer like crazy if Barack figured shit out and turned us around. But when responses come back as obviously ridiculous as what you and BLF came back with I just smirk and know the fix is in.

    The republican candidates have immigration ideas that scare many illegal immigrants so Obama is trying to do something to get those votes. It's obvious. You're responses of how folks who are mostly over the age of 25 that don't have any ID shouldn't be discriminated against is laughable.

    For a guy who is pro-America, you seem to be throwing away those Constitutional rights on the whims of a non-existent, almost conspiratorial problem.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Same in Ohio...have to show my ID.

    As long as people have access to a free ID from the government for voting purposes, there should be absolutely NO REASON not to require ID. We need ID to get on a plane, we need ID to open a bank account...but not for voting? That is insane.

    www.neoavatara.com/blog

    neoavatara

  • I'm pro manageability. You're "no one should have IDs" ideas are unmanageable. I'm PRO immigration. It simply has to be done in a legal and manageable way. You can get so liberal it becomes nearly anarchical.

    fsufsu

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    For a guy who is pro-America, you seem to be throwing away those Constitutional rights on the whims of a non-existent, almost conspiratorial problem.

    What constitutional right? The right for an American citizen to vote? That right is under attack by the influx of illegal immigrants. It's Pro American to say, Hey Americans lets make sure the voters in this election are really US citizens by showing IDs.

    fsufsu

  • fsufsu said...

    I already stated I honestly was hoping there was a good explanation. I am pro America and even though I am conservative I would cheer like crazy if Barack figured shit out and turned us around. But when responses come back as obviously ridiculous as what you and BLF came back with I just smirk and know the fix is in.

    The republican candidates have immigration ideas that scare many illegal immigrants so Obama is trying to do something to get those votes. It's obvious. You're responses of how folks who are mostly over the age of 25 that don't have any ID shouldn't be discriminated against is laughable.

    The fix is in? Answer the question yourself if that is what you wanted to do. You aren't going to listen to anyone in here. The explanation is clear and very sound whether you agree with it or not.

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac

  • kitemac said...

    The fix is in? Answer the question yourself if that is what you wanted to do. You aren't going to listen to anyone in here. The explanation is clear and very sound whether you agree with it or not.

    I am listening. You Act like Im upset because I didn't hear what I wanted but look in a mirror. You are taking the classic Lib stance. "I've stated my take but this close minded conservative just isn't willing to listen. Damn, Im just so enlightened."

    fsufsu

  • neoavatara said...

    Same in Ohio...have to show my ID.

    As long as people have access to a free ID from the government for voting purposes, there should be absolutely NO REASON not to require ID. We need ID to get on a plane, we need ID to open a bank account...but not for voting? That is insane.

    To be reasonable, those are things that are allowed or a privelege given by those private entities and voting is a right.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    To be reasonable, those are things that are allowed or a privelege given by those private entities and voting is a right.

    ....for American citizens. To be reasonable. Still with this enlightened BS.

    This post was edited by fsufsu on 3/12/2012 at 11:29 AM

    fsufsu

  • fsufsu said...

    What constitutional right? The right for an American citizen to vote? That right is under attack by the influx of illegal immigrants. It's Pro American to say, Hey Americans lets make sure the voters in this election are really US citizens by showing IDs.

    You are clearly muddling the notion of having identification to vote(which is already present) with the various different efforts that some states are taking. I have no problem with showing some form of ID to prove who you are.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • fsufsu said...

    I am listening. You Act like Im upset because I didn't hear what I wanted but look in a mirror. You are taking the classic Lib stance. "I've stated my take but this close minded conservative just isn't willing to listen. Damn, Im just so enlightened."

    I'm not a Lib BTW. Just saying the reasons that it would cause problems to force a proper ID present.

    This post was edited by kitemac on 3/12/2012 at 11:32 AM

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    kitemac

  • fsufsu said...

    ....for American citizens. To be reasonable. Still with this enlightened BS.

    I'm TALKING about citizens. Who could possibly be disenfranchised because of some asinine attempt to stop voter fraud by illegals that is apparently a goal by Obama...

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    You are clearly muddling the notion of having identification to vote(which is already present) with the various different efforts that some states are taking. I have no problem with showing some form of ID to prove who you are.

    My issue is that in the way of clear reason is this malignant cancer called political correctness.

    Our medical, financial, and labor systems are under water to some extent. We have a major illegal immigration issue. If I was president I'd give an awesome speech about my own family's past and how beautiful legal immigration is but then say illegal immigration has created a hole in the nation's pocket and it must be fixed. I'd say everyone must show picture ID to vote because I am not scared that non Americans wont be voting for me.

    I'd also have people show ID to pay their wheel tax. Then if you get pulled over because of expired tags and you're illegal you get deported. IF IF IF you have kids then you and your family can go to or near the front of the line to come back in legally as a tax paying citizen. All illegals in American prisons should be deported.

    Reasonable suggestions not "muddled" by Political correctness

    fsufsu

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    I'm TALKING about citizens. Who could possibly be disenfranchised because of some asinine attempt to stop voter fraud by illegals that is apparently a goal by Obama...

    I like asinine. Good word.

    I think it's laughable that people should have their rights to not carry ID protected during a time when that creates a loophole for a major national issue to take advantage of in the form of illegals.

    Who, unquestionably, will be voting for Obama. That's why it's shady.

    fsufsu

  • Naturalize them.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • fsufsu said...

    I like asinine. Good word.

    I think it's laughable that people should have their rights to not carry ID protected during a time when that creates a loophole for a major national issue to take advantage of in the form of illegals.

    Who, unquestionably, will be voting for Obama. That's why it's shady.

    So you think natural born citizens should be required to pay to vote?

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac

  • kitemac said...

    So you think natural born citizens should be required to pay to vote?

    lol, good grief. They have to drive to voting centers right now. Gosh, I bet they are spending 6 bucks in gas round trip. DAMN THE GOVERNMENT.

    Seriously, they wouldn't even need a physical ID. If you don't have an ID you provide your SS#, confirm the information that comes up and they clear you to vote.

    fsufsu

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Naturalize them.

    All of them? You just find them and then make them take a class, pass a test and they are in? Im not against that but it's a shaky idea based on the fact that they snuck into the country and have existed illegally.

    As long as they get on the books and off of welfare when they shouldn't even be here I am cool with it. Folks sneaking in, getting benefits and often free healthcare that I pay for makes me want to choke a bit__

    fsufsu

  • fsufsu said...

    I like asinine. Good word.

    I think it's laughable that people should have their rights to not carry ID protected during a time when that creates a loophole for a major national issue to take advantage of in the form of illegals.

    Who, unquestionably, will be voting for Obama. That's why it's shady.

    I'm confused about the original question then...

    Is the issue with illegals voting in elections? If so... then the real problem lies with voter turnout more so than illegals voting. there are less than 60% turnout in presidential elections and less than 40% in midterm elections. Not enough eligible or registered Americans are voting. Also considering that most states are safe in presidential elections, there would only be about 5-10 states that could truly affect who is elected president, mainly Ohio and Florida.

    If the issue is illegal immigration costing Americans too much to keep them around, then we are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's going to cost citizens either way and no president will be able to fix it within the next 4-8 years.

    /It's too early for me to try and use my brain, I'm still trying to wake up so idk if this makes any sense.

    This post was edited by zabba on 3/12/2012 at 11:54 AM

    zabba

  • fsufsu said...

    All of them? You just find them and then make them take a class, pass a test and they are in? Im not against that but it's a shaky idea based on the fact that they snuck into the country and have existed illegally.

    As long as they get on the books and off of welfare when they shouldn't even be here I am cool with it. Folks sneaking in, getting benefits and often free healthcare that I pay for makes me want to choke a bit__

    I think you'd be very surprised at the number of people who would come forward and become citizens versus what they have/do now. Edit: I'm not saying there isn't an illegal that has used some form of mooching, but I think your dependency theory is vastly hyperbolic.

    This post was edited by BamaLivesFootba on 3/12/2012 at 11:58 AM

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • fsufsu said...

    I hope it gets better from there. You have to be 18 to vote, if you don't have a SS card or driver's license by 18 you are shady as hell.

    What about the poor and very old? The old may not need an up to date ID because they don't drive.

    The poor, for obvious reasons, don't need an ID because they don't have a car, or couldn't afford a drivers license.

    TalHawkins112

  • freernnur5 said...

    Well even if you don't have a driver's license you can still get state ID cards or a US passport as a form of identification which would still work. I think it would be a perfectly reasonable request in order to vote.

    There's 2 problems with this: if you are poor, you can't afford either.

    And even if you aren't and are just old, you probably won't take the effort to get either, and that would prevent you from voting.

    TalHawkins112

  • fsufsu said...

    All of them? You just find them and then make them take a class, pass a test and they are in? Im not against that but it's a shaky idea based on the fact that they snuck into the country and have existed illegally.

    As long as they get on the books and off of welfare when they shouldn't even be here I am cool with it. Folks sneaking in, getting benefits and often free healthcare that I pay for makes me want to choke a bit__

    Not to go on a tangent or anything of the sort, but most Americans wouldn't pass that test. I realize being born here means you're American but I feel like there has to be a better way to determine their worth for citizenship.

    signature image signature image signature image

    sf2k4

  • ID's can be issued at no charge. I see no problem with requiring one in order to further prevent voter fraud.

    signature image signature image signature image

    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • sf2k4 said...

    Not to go on a tangent or anything of the sort, but most Americans wouldn't pass that test. I realize being born here means you're American but I feel like there has to be a better way to determine their worth for citizenship.

    Exactly. And does knowing who sewed the first American flag make you American? Hell no.

    I think there should be a standard like amount of hours worked per week in the last year. If you have a family of 4, illegal, and between the two parents they have averaged under 40 hours per week of work over the last year they should be in high risk of deportation.

    Just saying. Obviously this is a manifold, difficult issue.

    fsufsu