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Dream Team fanboys get ITT

  • This argument is always made from a "who would win" standpoint. That cannot be proven one way or the other, because they are unable to play.
    But the argument usually unfolds as a "collection of talent" dispute and at this point in time, of course, '92 wins hands down.

    This Gen X observer says in their primes, these teams are pretty close in talent, with the edge to '92 having the GOAT to carry them.

    Chevy26

  • jumpman-23 said...

    This argument is always made from a "who would win" standpoint. That cannot be proven one way or the other, because they are unable to play. But the argument usually unfolds as a "collection of talent" dispute and at this point in time, of course, '92 wins hands down.

    This Gen X observer says in their primes, these teams are pretty close in talent, with the edge to '92 having the GOAT to carry them.

    Most of the players on the Dream Team wouldn't have been an All-Star in the NBA this year. The talent levels aren't close.

    L_Himmler

  • L_Himmler said...

    Most of the players on the Dream Team wouldn't have been an All-Star in the NBA this year. The talent levels aren't close.

    Now that's a bogus comment and I'm not a dream team guy.

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    BamaShack

  • L_Himmler said...

    So, you're able to watch this '12 team go full force like they did today and not conclude that it is possibly the best basketball team (perhaps team of any sport in history) ever assembled? You really believe that the 92 team's washed up white boys, AIDS victims (sorry to be blunt, I love Magic [go green], but he was not a real basketball player by 1992), and tweeners could stand up to the buzz saw that is Kobe, LeBron, and Durant on the floor at the same time? The 92 team straight up could not deal with the gazelles on the '12 team flying around on fast breaks. It's just a different game today; I mean, have you watched old NBA games from the early 90's? They look like mediocre power conference college teams.

    And what about the differences in depth? Whom was the 92 bringing off the bench who could compete with the likes of Carmelo, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, or Deron Williams?

    Sorry, but the 92 team only gets so much love because of nostalgia and circumstance. They were only notable because they were the first pro Olympics team, and they were SO far ahead of their competition.

    You're not actually using any names of anyone from the 92 team and that's because you have no idea what you're talking about. Wanna know who they brought off the bench?

    -Karl Malone, arguably the greatest Power Foward of all time and definitely top 3.

    -David Robinson, imagine Dwight Howard slightly less athletic but a better scorer (he didn't have to rely on getting to the line to score half his points) and better dribbler.

    -John Stockton, the all-time leading assist and steals leader.

    -Scottie Pippen, probably the greatest on ball defender ever. Actually very comparable to King James in many aspects just not as good of a shooter.

    -Chris Mullen, think Paul Pierce but even more dead eye shooter.

    -Clyde Drexler, the best shooting guard of his time outside of Michael Jordan.

    Believe me, they had depth. More importantly, they had balance.

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    mac1992

  • L_Himmler said...

    Most of the players on the Dream Team wouldn't have been an All-Star in the NBA this year. The talent levels aren't close.

    lulzzzzzzz

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  • L_Himmler said...

    Most of the players on the Dream Team wouldn't have been an All-Star in the NBA this year. The talent levels aren't close.

    lol

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    LSUNoVa97443

  • L_Himmler said...

    People haven't, but the game and level of competition has. The players are incredibly more refined and skilled than they were 20 years ago, probably due to the exponential increase in exposure to elite competition starting in childhood. Have you watched a college basketball game from the early to mid '80's? It looks like women's basketball: choppy, below the rim, slow, and unimpressive. Today's college basketball players are in a different galaxy than those of the Dream Team's day, and this phenomenon stretches into middle and high school AAU ball.

    That's great and all, but what this argument actually comes down to is the 12 guys on the 92 team versus the 12 guys on the 2012 team. Here's how it would go.

    The 2012 would try to penetrate with Paul and Westbrook and attack the lane. Make the defense shrink and kick out to Durant and Melo. They'd also try to work mismatches on the perimeter like Lebron or Melo versus Barkley or Malone or an older Magic. The 92 would likely only be able to play one of Ewing, Malone or Robinson at a time for this reason and wouldn't be able to play a typical one through five lineup.

    Now, the 92 team would do its work from the inside out as well. They'd let the 2012 team live from the 3 point line, limit them to one shot and get out in transition. On offense they'd go directly inside at first and get Chandler in foul trouble with Ewing. That's when the game would end. Because then Kevin Love comes in off the bench and he would get completely eaten up against Ewing or Robinson or Malone or Barkley. Melo, Lebron, and Durant would all have to play in the post but they're not post defenders. This would also get them in foul trouble. On the perimeter, not too many matchups favor the 92 team except MJ against any of the guards the 2012 has to offer. But like I said this game would end once Chandler was quickly put in foul trouble

    This post was edited by mac1992 on 8/2/2012 at 8:52 PM

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    mac1992

  • MarineMountie said...

    Are people really making physical arguments? About today's game? You can't touch a player without drawing a foul. Robinson and Ewing would dominate the post like none other. Throw in Barkley and Malone and its game over. Should I get into the lock down defense of Jordan and Pippen? How about Mullen and Drexler knocking down 15 footer after 15 footer? Byrd was there for leadership and the players admitted as much. Stockton would get assist after assist by throwing it into the post. Nobody on this team would be able to compete with the Dream Team post. Throw in Jordan and pippen lock down defense its game over.

    Mountie bringing the knowledge.

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  • jumpman-23 said...

    This argument is always made from a "who would win" standpoint. That cannot be proven one way or the other, because they are unable to play. But the argument usually unfolds as a "collection of talent" dispute and at this point in time, of course, '92 wins hands down.

    This Gen X observer says in their primes, these teams are pretty close in talent, with the edge to '92 having the GOAT to carry them.

    Hard to say that because the careers of the 2012 guys haven't been finished. LBJ and Kobe could end up being 2 of the top 5 players ever. Durant could be too for all we know. Davis hasn't even played a minute in the NBA.

    In other words, its easy to say "the 1992 had X number or hall of famers, the 2012 doesn't", but that is unfair because most of these players careers are maybe half over.

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    joetheogre

  • Explain how you guard this lineup:

    Howard - 6'11" 280, athletic freak
    James - 6'9" 265, athletic freak
    Durant - 6'10", 7'5" wingspan, dead eye shooter
    Kobe - 6'6" one of the best scorers of all time
    Chris Paul/Deron Williams - True point guard

    Hard to see how the anyone can guard all of these guys. Lets stop acting like the 92 was demi-gods. They were a collection of all-stars who played terrible international competition. The 2012 team is a collection of all stars that plays solid to good international competition. When they do play terrible teams, they win by 85 points.

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    joetheogre

  • joetheogre said...

    Explain how you guard this lineup:

    Howard - 6'11" 280, athletic freak
    James - 6'9" 265, athletic freak
    Durant - 6'10", 7'5" wingspan, dead eye shooter
    Kobe - 6'6" one of the best scorers of all time
    Chris Paul/Deron Williams - True point guard

    Hard to see how the anyone can guard all of these guys. Lets stop acting like the 92 was demi-gods. They were a collection of all-stars who played terrible international competition. The 2012 team is a collection of all stars that plays solid to good international competition. When they do play terrible teams, they win by 85 points.

    Fail!

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    LSUNoVa97443

  • joetheogre said...

    Explain how you guard this lineup:

    Howard - 6'11" 280, athletic freak
    James - 6'9" 265, athletic freak
    Durant - 6'10", 7'5" wingspan, dead eye shooter
    Kobe - 6'6" one of the best scorers of all time
    Chris Paul/Deron Williams - True point guard

    Hard to see how the anyone can guard all of these guys. Lets stop acting like the 92 was demi-gods. They were a collection of all-stars who played terrible international competition. The 2012 team is a collection of all stars that plays solid to good international competition. When they do play terrible teams, they win by 85 points.

    Ok I'll play along. Say that's the five you want on the floor.

    On Howard you really can't go wrong with Ewing or Robinson. Both had very similar body types and he'd have a hard time muscling either of them. It'd be an incredible battle down low. This is a completely moot point though because Dwight isn't on the 2012 team. Problem is Dwight can be suckered into foul trouble and that's likely how they'd defend him- they'd just get him off the floor. Then there's no one behind him.

    James- Although it would probably be Magic to get him on the floor for athletic purposes, I'll go with Pippen. Very similar players James might have 10-15 pounds on him but that doesn't really matter. Pippen was an unbelievable perimeter defender and he'd take away the driving lanes (you'll balk at this but he really would) and let Lebron settle for jumpers like he does way too often.

    Durant- a number of guys could be put on Durant. Get physical with him, get right in his kitchen and he has a very very hard time attacking one on one (see Finals when lebron and battier shut him down) Magic, Barkley, even Clyde who was a great perimeter defender. Durant really scores most of his points on this team on wide open threes off screens so just stayig with him out there is the most important thing.

    Kobe- MJ in his prime would make it incredibly hard on Kobe Bryant at the age of 33. He absolutely shut guys down. I can't say he'd shut Kobe down because he hits shots with hands in his face all the time but it would be incredibly hard for him. In fact I think he would really struggle. But MJ would have to guard the point so I'll say Magic. You think Magic was so slow in 92 and he was slower but output don't get it. He was one of the best players ever. That doesn't just go away. It's the same way that MJ was still great with the Wizards and Kobe will still be great until he retires. Magic would bother Kobe with length and he was just such a smart defender.

    D Will/CP3/Russ- Definitely where the dream team would struggle the most. They were susceptible only to fast penetrating guards. I think they'd have to have MJ guard this position, and I think he'd do just fine.

    Now, entertain me. We're talking international ball where your only allowed 5 fouls. So when Chandler, or even Dwight, got in foul trouble, who guards Ewing/Robinson and Malone/Barkley on the floor at the same time? More importantly who keeps them off the boards? And who do you put on MJ?

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    mac1992

  • gobigblue21 said...

    Now, entertain me. We're talking international ball where your only allowed 5 fouls. So when Chandler, or even Dwight, got in foul trouble, who guards Ewing/Robinson and Malone/Barkley on the floor at the same time? More importantly who keeps them off the boards? And who do you put on MJ?

    I think Howard would be the best center on either team. Once he fouls out it gets VERY dicey. I'm not worried about Malone or Barkely because I think James could guard them, but if Howard fouls out with Ewing and Robinson in the game it becomes an issue.

    I put a rotation on Jordan. I'd go athletic and put Westbrook, CP3, Williams and maybe Iguodala and pressure him/double team nonstop. Play physical and try to get in his head. MJ is MJ though so it will only go so far.

    My premise on think the 2012 team could win is that they are more athletic and are a better shooting team, both of which fit well in the international game. I am also assuming we have 2012 FIBA refs, which benefits the current team because they can draw fouls much better than the 92 team, which could be prone to macho head games. Also, if this is a seven game series, I feel like the 2012 team has much better chemistry and is less selfish overall than the 92 guys. Even if it is just a one game playoff, I still like 2012's chances.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • joetheogre said...

    The 2012 team would smoke the '92 team.

    No, they wouldn't. 2012 team would probably lose 8 out of 10 games played against The Dream Team.

    Either you aren't very old or you're simply not very smart.

    UTK66

  • joetheogre said...

    Hard to say that because the careers of the 2012 guys haven't been finished. LBJ and Kobe could end up being 2 of the top 5 players ever. Durant could be too for all we know. Davis hasn't even played a minute in the NBA.

    In other words, its easy to say "the 1992 had X number or hall of famers, the 2012 doesn't", but that is unfair because most of these players careers are maybe half over.

    Why are you even mentioning Davis? Dude is grossly overrated. Solid defender but he'll be a 10 and 8 guy, nothing more. D. Howard and Byndom will abuse that beanpole, badly.

    UTK66

  • UTK66 said...

    Why are you even mentioning Davis? Dude is grossly overrated. Solid defender but he'll be a 10 and 8 guy, nothing more. D. Howard and Byndom will abuse that beanpole, badly.

    He's only 19. I think he could be an elite defender down the road.

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    joetheogre

  • UTK66 said...

    Why are you even mentioning Davis? Dude is grossly overrated. Solid defender but he'll be a 10 and 8 guy, nothing more. D. Howard and Byndom will abuse that beanpole, badly.

    Solid defender? The guy will win multiple defensive player of the year awards, mark it down. You can't teach the instincts and the length that this kid possesses. He will get bodied a bit in his first few years but so did Dwight. The most important thing is that he has the frame to put on much more weight. His upside is huge offensively and at worst he'll be an all-NBA defender.

    But in this conversation, you're right he's got no business with these guys right now.

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    mac1992

  • L_Himmler said...

    Most of the players on the Dream Team wouldn't have been an All-Star in the NBA this year. The talent levels aren't close.

    roflmao

    Most of the players on the Dream Team are Hall of Famers.

    Also, besides the fact that Dwight isn't even ON the team, people need to stop talking about him like he's all-world. He may be the best center in the game today, but he grossly underperforms in relation to his potential. Dwight is not a top ten Center of all time. Ewing and Robinson probably were.

    This debate begins and ends in the post, where the Dream Team would obliterate this team.

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    mizAU

  • mizAU said...

    Most of the players on the Dream Team are Hall of Famers.

    Also, besides the fact that Dwight isn't even ON the team, people need to stop talking about him like he's all-world. He may be the best center in the game today, but he grossly underperforms in relation to his potential. Dwight is not a top ten Center of all time. Ewing and Robinson probably were.

    This debate begins and ends in the post, where the Dream Team would obliterate this team.

    -Most of the players on the current team will be hall of famers.
    -Howard is a top ten Center of all time. He is 26, but his career will bear that out.
    -No one would obliterate this team. If the dream team won it would be by <15

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • joetheogre said...

    -Most of the players on the current team will be hall of famers.
    -Howard is a top ten Center of all time. He is 26, but his career will bear that out.
    -No one would obliterate this team. If the dream team won it would be by <15

    +1 I agree with all of those.

    This post was edited by mac1992 on 8/3/2012 at 8:11 AM

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    mac1992

  • joetheogre said...

    -Most of the players on the current team will be hall of famers.
    -Howard is a top ten Center of all time. He is 26, but his career will bear that out.
    -No one would obliterate this team. If the dream team won it would be by <15

    - So? I was countering the fact that you (or someone) said the guys on the Dream Team wouldn't be All-Stars in today's NBA. Laughable.

    - Howard is NOT a top ten Center of all time. Not yet. He may or may not get there. This discussion pertains to players how they were during their respective team's Olympic Games. Oh, and it doesn't matter because Dwight IS NOT ON THE TEAM.

    - Didn't say the Dream Team would obliterate the 2012 team all-around. I said they would dominate them in the post, which they would.

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    mizAU

  • I believe this would be a close game especially if the game was played with todays current style of basketball. The 2012 with their ability to travel would be able to get to the lane. Seriously when players can pro hop from the foul line which by the way is actually travelling or up and down it would be very difficult to defend. In the end I would go with the 92 team for one reason....the GOAT...Michael "Air" Jordan.

    jr88BRUTUS

  • mizAU said...

    - So? I was countering the fact that you (or someone) said the guys on the Dream Team wouldn't be All-Stars in today's NBA. Laughable.

    - Howard is NOT a top ten Center of all time. Not yet. He may or may not get there. This discussion pertains to players how they were during their respective team's Olympic Games. Oh, and it doesn't matter because Dwight IS NOT ON THE TEAM.

    - Didn't say the Dream Team would obliterate the 2012 team all-around. I said they would dominate them in the post, which they would.

    -They certainly would be all stars, so we agree there

    -Howard will be top ten. I would take him over 92 Ewing or Robinson. Neither of them had done anything in their careers up to that point either; at least Howard has been to a finals and has 3 DPOTY awards.

    - They may win in the post because of overall depth, but the 2012 team would be better in other areas (atheticism, shooting) that are more conducive to winning in international competition.

    This post was edited by joetheogre on 8/3/2012 at 10:10 AM

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    joetheogre

  • Lulz at Dwight Howard being a top ten all time center. Some serious idiocy itt. Thanks for all the lulz. Will come back later to read some more.

    Big A

  • L_Himmler said...

    Most of the players on the Dream Team wouldn't have been an All-Star in the NBA this year. The talent levels aren't close.

    Wow. lol

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