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Firefighters Ordered to Remove American Flags From Their Trucks

  • Mike said...

    When I said Obama, I'm talking about government.

    I get it. You guys think people get there they do in life because of government. I just happen to think they get there in spite of government. It's the liberal/conservative struggle in a nutshell.

    I work for a small business. I was the fifth full time employee. I absolutely do not think people get where they do in life because of government. But I think the idea that they get there in spite of government is even sillier.

    The last time you drove to the grocery store, did you get there in spite of the public road under your tires? I mean, seriously.

    No one gets where they are because of the government, but they can't get there without it, either. That's why your tax rate isn't 0%, but it's not 100% either.

    RabbitSC

  • Mike said...

    How many of the infrastructure projects that this country has built, that have enabled business to thrive, have not been paid for in the form of taxes that said business owner already pays? Do you believe the government has a right to turn a profit?

    The percentage of a business/business Owner's taxes that go to infrastructure is imaginably smaller than the possible cost under no public infrastructure. The entire tax base is sharing the cost versus having to pay a toll on every road you would ever have to move your goods across,move yourself across etc.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • USMCAG said...

    The government didn't create the internet, so anybody that has gotten rich from an online business.

    headslap

    The government did pretty much create the internet. The internet began as ARPANET, a program designed to establish a secure military communications network. ARPANET was gradually declassified, and commercial networks began attaching themselves to ARPANET using federally-funded "protocols." During this time, the U.S. government also funded the building and maintenance of trunk lines, the so-called backbone of the internet. Both the design and implementation of the internet relied entirely on governmental funding.

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    CMXI

  • USMCAG said...

    The government didn't create the internet, so anybody that has gotten rich from an online business.

    The government LITERALLY created the internet, through ARPANET in the 1950's through 1970's. The internet owes its very existence to state funding.

    We have Google. You're on the internet. You can look things up before you get them wrong these days.

    RabbitSC

  • RabbitSC said...

    I work for a small business. I was the fifth full time employee. I absolutely do not think people get where they do in life because of government. But I think the idea that they get there in spite of government is even sillier.

    The last time you drove to the grocery store, did you get there in spite of the public road under your tires? I mean, seriously.

    No one gets where they are because of the government, but they can't get there without it, either. That's why your tax rate isn't 0%, but it's not 100% either.

    Ok so you're saying a business owner who uses a public road should owe more in taxes than a welfare recipient who uses that same road, simply because he's been more successful. I don't disagree with that.

    My point is, what does the road have to do with it?

    And yes, what Obama was implying is absolutely that successful people get where they are because of the government. That is the issue.

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    Mike

  • Mike said...

    How many of the infrastructure projects that this country has built, that have enabled business to thrive, have not been paid for in the form of taxes that said business owner already pays? Do you believe the government has a right to turn a profit?

    Honestly, barely any, because the vast majority of the time, the infrastructure is in place well before the business begins to thrive by utilizing it.

    I don't believe the government has a right to turn a profit and keep the money, but I believe a government should do everything it can to use its money wisely so there's more to reinvest in the country/state/city/whatever itself. In the case of infrastructure, it's pretty much the opposite of social security. With SS, you're paying now for a benefit you (hopefully) will see later, but with infrastructure, you're getting your benefit now in the form of available infrastructure, and you pay for the next generation's infrastructure improvements with your subsequent taxes.

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    CMXI

  • Mike said...

    Ok so you're saying a business owner who uses a public road should owe more in taxes than a welfare recipient who uses that same road, simply because he's been more successful. I don't disagree with that.

    My point is, what does the road have to do with it?

    And yes, what Obama was implying is absolutely that successful people get where they are because of the government. That is the issue.

    Without the government, we would refer to successful people as 'warlords' and 'strongmen.'

    RabbitSC

  • Mike said...

    Ok so you're saying a business owner who uses a public road should owe more in taxes than a welfare recipient who uses that same road, simply because he's been more successful. I don't disagree with that.

    My point is, what does the road have to do with it?

    And yes, what Obama was implying is absolutely that successful people get where they are because of the government. That is the issue.

    If that's the issue, here's what I get out of it - successful people would probably achieve some level of success absent government, but it wouldn't be nearly as high as it is with government. In that sense, all successful people get to the exact level of where they are because of the government.

    If it's a foregone conclusion that all business people owe some debt (be it of gratitude or whatever) to the government, then I think it's fair to say that the government did help all these people get to where they are. Obama isn't saying that the government is responsible for all of a successful person's success, just part of it.

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    CMXI

  • RabbitSC said...

    The government LITERALLY created the internet, through ARPANET in the 1950's through 1970's. The internet owes its very existence to state funding.

    We have Google. You're on the internet. You can look things up before you get them wrong these days.

    Technically, the government created the technology that made the internet possible. The internet isn't an object, it's just a bunch of data on computers linked together.

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    Mike

  • RabbitSC said...

    Without the government, we would refer to successful people as 'warlords' and 'strongmen.'

    Some would refer to government as the warlords and strongmen.

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    Mike

  • CMXI said...

    If that's the issue, here's what I get out of it - successful people would probably achieve some level of success absent government, but it wouldn't be nearly as high as it is with government. In that sense, all successful people get to the exact level of where they are because of the government.

    If it's a foregone conclusion that all business people owe some debt (be it of gratitude or whatever) to the government, then I think it's fair to say that the government did help all these people get to where they are. Obama isn't saying that the government is responsible for all of a successful person's success, just part of it.

    If government was the overriding factor in success, why are so many people (60 million plus) in this country content to allow government to provide for them?

    Edit: That's it for me today. I've had enough success for one day. Now I'm going to take advantage of some federal infrastructure to get home. Good debate.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Mike on 7/17/2012 at 5:43 PM

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    Mike

  • RabbitSC said...

    Without the government, we would refer to successful people as 'warlords' and 'strongmen.'

    coffee

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    3 time POTW, member since 2006, MLWTI: 4-3

    irishyoung

  • After all these posts, the general direction that started with the OP has been basically ignored. Whether there is some impropriety in the way the flag was flown is a minor subject. That's easily correctible, and likely would be with a simple request. We're talking about whether it's right to deny men who would run willingly into a house fire to save you the right to fly the flag of their own country on the vehicle in which they respond to your distress. The same country for which men died to give their families, and yours, the right to speak, worship, and exist as they so choose. My political affiliation and yours is irrelevant to the subject of whether men who choose to serve us have the right to fly the flag of the greatest country on earth. I salute them, and support every effort they make to put the stars and bars back on that truck.

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    TheT12

  • shrugTheres always the stars n bars...

    Goldrusher35

  • TheT12 said...

    I salute them, and support every effort they make to put the stars and bars back on that truck.

    I'm just going to assume that you meant to type "Stars and Stripes" - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that's an honest mistake.

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    CMXI

  • CMXI said...

    I'm just going to assume that you meant to type "Stars and Stripes" - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that's an honest mistake.

    good job. you are so smart

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    3 time POTW, member since 2006, MLWTI: 4-3

    irishyoung