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Free will...

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    "I do think of others, and the rest of the world. By no means can I understand it or explain it. It is hard to grasp. As much is."

    Honest question - is this a sign of doubt?

    "I appreciate your comments, and questions, and a really good discussion. I have tried to put a lot of thought in and answer as accurately and sincerely as I could.

    My favorite NFL team for the last 36 years has been the Colts. Since you have worked all the way around to a Colt's reference, I'll take it as a sign to leave this conversation where it is, and I'm sure we'll take it up another day. Catch you later, my man."

    I appreciate it. Fun stuff. As always, I appreciate a civil discussion! Take it easy!

    Rebuttal comment your honor. lol

    Honest question - is this a sign of doubt?

    Not at all. It is frustration in what I don't understand. Same in my personal life. There have been times I prayed/talked to God, and yelled and was mad. Have prayed "God, I'm mad at you and don't want to talk to you, help me to get over it, amen."

    I know that has to kind of crazy, but it always works for me

    ok, really done this time

    VTSmitty

  • Rebel_30 said...

    Ok. I think I understand. You don't like rules.

    No. It's that the bible contradicts itself about a billion times on work v. faith (and a lot of other stuff).

    ramssuperbowl99

  • VTSmitty said...

    Rebuttal comment your honor. lol

    Honest question - is this a sign of doubt?

    Not at all. It is frustration in what I don't understand. Same in my personal life. There have been times I prayed/talked to God, and yelled and was mad. Have prayed "God, I'm mad at you and don't want to talk to you, help me to get over it, amen."

    I know that has to kind of crazy, but it always works for me

    ok, really done this time

    I'll postpone the attacks for a night. Take it easy!

    ramssuperbowl99

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    You have a good deal more posts to respond to my friend. And don't covet =/= don't rape. Rape is a crime of power, not desire - ask any psychologist.

    What haven't I responded to? My apologies if I have missed some. I am a father of 3 and a husband of 1. Children 15, 8, & 5. Things get a little hectic around here. Also, they are a little more important to me than this message board. Just the way it is. Lol

    The Future Is Bright! Hotty Toddy

    Rebel_30

  • Rebel_30 said...

    ...and a husband of 1

    Sounds like your mother raised a quiter.

    SCirish843

  • Rebel_30 said...

    I am a father of 3 and a husband of 1

    So hey hey her.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • sorry, but I am not reading everyone's response but here is my opinion. God is all knowing and yes you do have free will. But god is is omniscience and knows what you are going to do. You have a chance for your soul to grow in knowledge and faith which is why you don't know what is up ahead. But God does.

    signature image signature image

    I lost a sig bet. that is why I have these sigs until November 7, 2013.

    pcgamecock2001

  • pcgamecock2001 said...

    sorry, but I am not reading everyone's response but here is my opinion. God is all knowing and yes you do have free will. But god is is omniscience and knows what you are going to do. You have a chance for your soul to grow in knowledge and faith which is why you don't know what is up ahead. But God does.

    So it's not free will.

    signature image signature image signature image

    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    So it's not free will.

    Knowing which of the paths we will take does not equate to forcing us down a path. Unless we are not seeing eye to eye on what free will is?

    signature image

    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

    amrollZ71

  • pcgamecock2001 said...

    sorry, but I am not reading everyone's response but here is my opinion. God is all knowing and yes you do have free will. But god is is omniscience and knows what you are going to do. You have a chance for your soul to grow in knowledge and faith which is why you don't know what is up ahead. But God does.

    Sounds like god is playing a fun game.

    What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome.--Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

    scinsc5

  • Not at all. Like the person said above. Thanks

    signature image signature image

    I lost a sig bet. that is why I have these sigs until November 7, 2013.

    pcgamecock2001

  • scinsc5 said...

    Sounds like god is playing a fun game.

    Think of it like this, you know your team is going to lose in x sport but you still watch and grow.

    signature image signature image

    I lost a sig bet. that is why I have these sigs until November 7, 2013.

    pcgamecock2001

  • sf2k4 said...

    So it's not free will.

    I think we've all been in the 'prove it' mode, and we've all come from a non- believers position at some point..
    Like one of the other posters said..-
    Some of us just became too convinced that the 'still, small voice' that we were constantly denying , wasn't the boogie man..
    Hopefully, there will come a time in yr life when that calling is so pronounced, persuasive, and all fear and doubt are removed that it is NOT such a giant leap to change your lifestyle and belief system..
    We have peace and are contented in trouble times bcuz we know that we alone do not carry the weight of the world on our shoulders..
    It is an amazing place to rest in an otherwise 'scary' and troublesome world.
    .. Don't doubt and don't hate..!
    Just trust that there is shelter from the storm.-
    It sounds absurd and too 'out there' for a non- believer, but i'm pretty sure that you won't convince one of God's people to say they don't feel the protection and love every single day.. That, i really doubt-

    This post was edited by Itchin on 2/24/2013 at 12:17 AM

    Itchin

  • amrollZ71 said...

    Knowing which of the paths we will take does not equate to forcing us down a path. Unless we are not seeing eye to eye on what free will is?

    If he knows the path we will take before we take it then our plan has been predetermined by him. And if he is the creator of the beings travelling on said path then we are still being forced to go down a predetermined road he already laid out for us.

    RenegadeNole

  • Have a question for bible thumpers that actually effected my life tonight. So I'm with a group of friends and one mentions the fake apocalypse that 'just happened' and a girl in which I'm very good friends with said and I quote "I actually wish it would've happened so then I could see my best friend's brother who just died in Afghanistan." Naturally I laughed in her face, she threw my hat in a trash can...I obviously understand her attachment but do people actually believe that American soldiers are somehow above other casualties of war and get special heaven priviledges? To me it just seems offensive to all the other brothers in arms who weren't born in this country or who share different beliefs.

    This post was edited by SCirish843 on 2/24/2013 at 2:32 AM

    SCirish843

  • Rebel_30 said...

    I am in the minority as far as Christians are concerned, but I believe in predestination and election. I believe God knows all and has known it before He created anything. When people say 'He looked ahead into time", they forget that He created time for us. He is eternal therefore time doesn't apply to Him.

    I want you to really think about this. You believe God has a set path that everyone follows. That means at least 6 billion people on this Earth today will spend an eternity in hell for not believing in the right god, not following the right sect of a religion that worships the right god, or doesn't believe at all. This also means he set a plan for a mother to give birth to a child only to watch it die in her arms maybe a year or two later due to starvation. This means he set a plan for a son to see his dad die right in front of him trying to catch a baseball at a Texas Rangers' game. This means he set up a plan where two Boeing 747's crashed in to and ultimately brought down the WTC, killing around 3,000 people in the process. This mean the Holocaust was already determined. The girl getting raped and brutally beaten in an alley was all just part of the plan. If you can take a good hard look at all of the madness and truly disturbing things in this world and still say "it's all been predetermined by the big guy upstairs and I still devote my existence to him," then explode

    RenegadeNole

  • @SCirish843
    No special treatment for soldiers. Each individual has to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Maybe she is a believer and possibly knows that her best friend's brother is a believer. If that's the case then she would be right. If she thinks you automatically get to go to Heaven because you died in combat then she is wrong.

    John 14:6 NKJV

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

    This post was edited by Rebel_30 on 2/24/2013 at 6:49 AM

    The Future Is Bright! Hotty Toddy

    Rebel_30

  • @Renegade
    Yep! Laugh away. It's not unexpected.

    Ezekiel 22:5 NKJV

    Those near and those far from you will mock you as infamous and full of tumult.

    Luke 18:32 NKJV

    For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon.

    Luke 22:63 NKJV

    Now the men who held Jesus mocked Him and beat Him.

    Acts 2:13 NKJV

    Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

    Hebrews 11:36 NKJV

    Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.

    II Timothy 3:12 NKJV

    'Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.'

    This post was edited by Rebel_30 on 2/24/2013 at 8:59 AM

    The Future Is Bright! Hotty Toddy

    Rebel_30

  • premise 1 - there is a god that has a plan for everything

    premise 2 - Nothing can happen that is not according to god's plan

    event - I do not believe in a god

    conclusion - Either god is a dick and has set me on a course that can not alter from the fires of hell, or I can alter god's plan by my choice and am more powerful than god.

    We are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

    OmegaBuckeye

  • Rebel_30 said...

    Yep! Laugh away. It's not unexpected.

    Ezekiel 22:5 NKJV

    Those near and those far from you will mock you as infamous and full of tumult.

    Luke 18:32 NKJV

    For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon.

    Luke 22:63 NKJV

    Now the men who held Jesus mocked Him and beat Him.

    Acts 2:13 NKJV

    Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

    Hebrews 11:36 NKJV

    Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.

    II Timothy 3:12 NKJV

    'Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.'

    It isn't hard to predict being mocked for holding silly beliefs. Nice to put a self confirming message in the bible. If I was the one creating a religion, thats the same way I would do it. I would also put in there something about having to have faith, which is believing in something without evidence.

    We are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

    OmegaBuckeye

  • Itchin said...

    I think we've all been in the 'prove it' mode, and we've all come from a non- believers position at some point.. Like one of the other posters said..- Some of us just became too convinced that the 'still, small voice' that we were constantly denying , wasn't the boogie man.. Hopefully, there will come a time in yr life when that calling is so pronounced, persuasive, and all fear and doubt are removed that it is NOT such a giant leap to change your lifestyle and belief system.. We have peace and are contented in trouble times bcuz we know that we alone do not carry the weight of the world on our shoulders.. It is an amazing place to rest in an otherwise 'scary' and troublesome world. .. Don't doubt and don't hate..! Just trust that there is shelter from the storm.- It sounds absurd and too 'out there' for a non- believer, but i'm pretty sure that you won't convince one of God's people to say they don't feel the protection and love every single day.. That, i really doubt-

    Sorry if I don't think you have all come from a non-believers position since you have clearly shown you do not understand that position. You might have been an Apathiest, meaning you still believed in a god. But you just didn't care about it. Also, from what I have seen, it is not the relgious that have peace and are contented. It is the right winger religious people that are worried about having guns to protect themselves and are always worried about the fall of the United States.

    We are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

    OmegaBuckeye

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    Sorry if I don't think you have all come from a non-believers position since you have clearly shown you do not understand that position. You might have been an Apathiest, meaning you still believed in a god. But you just didn't care about it. Also, from what I have seen, it is not the relgious that have peace and are contented. It is the right winger religious people that are worried about having guns to protect themselves and are always worried about the fall of the United States.

    You remind me of the character Billy Bob Thorton played in the movie, The Apostle.
    Starred Robert Duval. Good movie.

    VTSmitty

  • RenegadeNole said...

    If he knows the path we will take before we take it then our plan has been predetermined by him. And if he is the creator of the beings travelling on said path then we are still being forced to go down a predetermined road he already laid out for us.

    No. Knowing which of the paths we will take does not equate to making us take one.

    Ex: If I were to give someone either 100$ or 1$,i have a very good idea which they would choose, but I didn't make them choose either. Simple example, but it still works for this purpose

    signature image

    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

    amrollZ71

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    premise 1 - there is a god that has a plan for everything

    premise 2 - Nothing can happen that is not according to god's plan

    event - I do not believe in a god

    conclusion - Either god is a dick and has set me on a course that can not alter from the fires of hell, or I can alter god's plan by my choice and am more powerful than god.

    For as smart as you seem to be you truly are lacking the intelligence to see a simple answer that has been explained.

    signature image

    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

    amrollZ71

  • RenegadeNole said...

    I want you to really think about this. You believe God has a set path that everyone follows. That means at least 6 billion people on this Earth today will spend an eternity in hell for not believing in the right god, not following the right sect of a religion that worships the right god, or doesn't believe at all. This also means he set a plan for a mother to give birth to a child only to watch it die in her arms maybe a year or two later due to starvation. This means he set a plan for a son to see his dad die right in front of him trying to catch a baseball at a Texas Rangers' game. This means he set up a plan where two Boeing 747's crashed in to and ultimately brought down the WTC, killing around 3,000 people in the process. This mean the Holocaust was already determined. The girl getting raped and brutally beaten in an alley was all just part of the plan. If you can take a good hard look at all of the madness and truly disturbing things in this world and still say "it's all been predetermined by the big guy upstairs and I still devote my existence to him," then explode

    I think you must first realize that from a Christians point of view people are inherently evil, we constantly want to do bad things. Every single person has that urge, some have it stronger than others. You can continue down the path of evil and some of those events will happen(the Holocaust since you used it) or. The only part I am not sure of how to answer is the dying child.

    signature image

    Lebron James will never be as good as Michael Jordan, thus we should get rid of his nickname, "The King".

    amrollZ71