The Blue Board

I walk in zig zags to avoid God and crocodiles.

This is very interesting thought. Why can't he pick it up? Why would he need to pick it up?

IMHO, they were on the fence from the beginning..
All of the scientific hoop-la-ga-ga doesn't convince or persuade a true believer..
.. but good luck with that !
Hope it brings lots of happiness and contentment!

Just a reminder: it's important that our responses are relevant to the original point.

Predestination doesn't allow for changing one's path. That's the point. We either have free will or people have no say in whether or not they go to heaven or hell.

If someone doesn't actually commit murder, should they be convicted of it? I would think the idea of passing judgment without anything actually occurring would be anathema to you and most.

If someone doesn't actually commit murder, should they be convicted of it? I would think the idea of passing judgment without anything actually occurring would be anathema to you and most.

Just can't get over this post. You are thankful that a vast number of people are condemned to an eternity of torture because you aren't? That has to be the most selfish idea I have ever heard.

Your argument is flawed because you are not God.

Sorry, predestination makes absolutely no sense. None.

I don't really know where I'd place my faith at the moment. I was raised in a christian home but I am struggling mightily with it lately. All my life I have been told that it is God's wish for everyone to be saved. Well then why not take steps to further that cause? Why does it have to be a mystery as to whether or not he exists? Why not give us some kind of proof that the Bible is true? I mean people back then had all the miracles of Jesus to show them he was the son of God. We get a book telling us about it. It just seems all too convenient that there is no more proof than that. Kinda makes me think it was just made up.

And I would never ever send someone to hell for eternity no matter what they did. Maybe for a day or something depending on how their crime was, but eternity? Geez. And it's not just the serial killers or rapists that go there. It could be someone who would gladly believe the Bible if only there was some way to verify they weren't being duped.

I just can't figure out why God, who is said to love us more than we can imagine, would send anyone to hell. And I always get the convenient answer: "Well our human minds can't understand God's thoughts." Then why even bother preaching the Bible in the first place if it is just going to lead to questions that can't be answered? I just get the thought that hell is a way to scare people into believing the Bible.

I mean why does it have to be some big game? Why can't God just tell us straight up that we can either follow him or be condemned to hell? Would anyone here choose not to follow God if you were standing before him and he gave you that choice? Everyone would choose God unless they were mentally ill. Isn't that what God/Jesus wants? For everyone to choose him and avoid hell?

I think the OP was more about an attempt at making omniscience and free will logically incompatible. Although that does seem to naturally lead toward the predestination argument.

And I'll address this just for funsies: If you could, with 100% total accuracy, predict and prove that someone was going to commit murder, why not arrest them before they do so? I realize we're big on "innocent until proven guilty" (which really doesn't apply in this theoretical situation) but if we could know about crimes beforehand, wouldn't our system of punishment (which focuses on the perpetrator) be less logical than one of prevention (which focuses on the victim)? Isn't it better to be proactive than reactive?