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  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    No. The numbers most certainly do matter. If 90% of the elementary is say above the poverty line, it wouldn't make sense that 90% recieved assistance.

    Again. You are missing the point. You are trying to argue an existential point with philosphical rationale.

    Ha, OK. Stay in school, kid.

    signature image signature image signature image

    92DT

  • 92DT said...

    Ha, OK. Stay in school, kid.

    So...we aren't going to have a discussion about the complexity of the situation? You are just going to make your point and stomp your feet? Alright then. peace

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • 92DT said...

    Ha, OK. Stay in school, kid.

    Students and academics are just as important to discussions like these as those that have been trudging it out in the real world for decades. The former tend to be theoretical and idealistic, the latter cynical and defeatist. We need both sides to work together; neither can stand on their own.

    signature image signature image signature image

    sf2k4

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    So...we aren't going to have a discussion about the complexity of the situation? You are just going to make your point and stomp your feet? Alright then. peace

    Don't see what else there is to discuss. Got class now. Maybe later.

    signature image signature image signature image

    92DT

  • brem22 said...

    Yes, but the only reason PPP GDP is now up again in Sweden is because they have all but abandoned their previous universal care model.

    The Swedish model was a complete fail, and even though they've turned away from it to a large extent they're still suffering from the hold over policies.

    What we truly strive for in the US I'm not sure is even possible. Taxing the 1% at a higher rate does nothing. You have to hammer the majority with higher rates to provide all the care/education/social services we want to provide. Yet higher taxes stunts growth and too many entitlements kills productivity. Somewhere in there lays a balance...

    The balance that has to be struck isn't that severely damaging. It will only take some cutting and slight revenue increases to get deficits down reasonable DTGDP ratios.

    Now I will say this, if the country chooses to push forward with certain welfare state choices like a single-payer, it would need to drastically reduce military spending to offset and probably need an increase in tax revenue. That's one thing a lot of people on the left in this country don't understand. We currently have high spending and low taxes. Europeans have higher spending and higher taxes on everyone, not just the rich.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • blue2468 said...

    I did for over ten years.

    Lived a bit in Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, and Kentucky. And my father still lives in Tennessee.

    So you don't live in the south?

    Wtf is up with all the Michigan fans in here?

    Twitter: @ProducerAP

    Theta

  • Theta said...

    So you don't live in the south?

    Wtf is up with all the Michigan fans in here?

    Wtf does living in the South got to do with anything?

    Are your poor > than the norths'?

    signature image signature image

    Go Blue and Go Titans!

    CorchBlue

  • blue2468 said...

    Wtf does living in the South got to do with anything?

    Are your poor > than the norths'?

    Its a different world down here. Concept grasping not taught at Michigan?

    Twitter: @ProducerAP

    Theta

  • Theta said...

    Its a different world down here. Concept grasping not taught at Michigan?

    They'll never get it. Don't even try.

    signature image signature image signature image

    92DT

  • mriderblue12 said...

    Also let me clarify, I'm not advocating for the US to become a more socialist country. Their politics have gotten them to the top so they obviously know what they are doing; but to assert that some forms of social assistance creates a lower, lazy class of people is just 100% false.

    I live in a country you guys probably consider socialist, and no one sits at some shitty home, happy to sit on the couch, and collect welfare cheques. It's not enough money to have a legit life, and no one wants to be poor. There are obviously some crazies who probably do just collect welfare and do nothing; but the vast majority are fighting tooth and nail to make something of themselves.

    good points, not all elements of socialism are bad...yada yada yada.

    i'm not against government aid...but we've created 50+ years of government aided systemic poverty that just keeps on going and going...culture of entitlement.

    when i was in romania after the curtain fell i asked a worker what it was like...he said, we pretended to work and the government pretended to pay us.

    in my profession (medicine) i see non stop abuses. good luck trying to get dr.'s to see an influx of medicaid patients...the didn't go into debt during med school to work for free.

    basic tenants of capitalism (LIKE COLLEGE FOOTBALL) work. if you can't produce you fail and will be replaced by someone better than you.
    this doesn't mean we don't offer aid to the poor (it's been happening for thousands of years, look at scripture) at the same time we don't set up a state that enables people to mooch, cheat and systematically steal for generations...fyi it's not race related. in my job i see all races abusing the system. when the aid slows, people have a miraculous way of getting off their ass and working. We were created for work.

    hubcitytider

  • Theta said...

    Its a different world down here. Concept grasping not taught at Michigan?

    Whatever you say, when you get even half the experience I have with this kind of stuff, get back at me.

    signature image signature image

    Go Blue and Go Titans!

    CorchBlue

  • hubcitytider said...

    basic tenants of capitalism (LIKE COLLEGE FOOTBALL) work. if you can't produce you fail and will be replaced by someone better than you. this doesn't mean we don't offer aid to the poor (it's been happening for thousands of years, look at scripture) at the same time we don't set up a state that enables people to mooch, cheat and systematically steal for generations...fyi it's not race related. in my job i see all races abusing the system. when the aid slows, people have a miraculous way of getting off their ass and working. We were created for work.

    While your point is true and I agree with you, let's not act like like if you go out there and work hard and do the best job you can you will succeed 100% of the time. 99% of the team? Absolutely. But there are plenty of sh!tty people out there in our capitalistic society that don't play by the basic tenets of the philosophy. A good friend of mine got fired from her job (during one of those 6 month probationary periods) because she was doing too good of a job and making her boss look bad (and making her have to work harder; she was the definition of a leach). Since it was during that 6 month intro she didn't need to declare a reason for her firing. All she said was, "Personality differences." Before you go and say my friend was just being a whiner and should have worked harder, about a month after that the boss was found drunk and high lying on the floor after falling down the stairs. How about them apples, eh?

    I definitely believe the welfare system needs a massive overhaul to make sure that only those that truly need (and deserve) it get it. But it can't go anywhere, because as great as a perfect capitalistic society would be, there's no such thing as perfect in this world. Because society cannot be perfect.

    signature image signature image signature image

    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    While your point is true and I agree with you, let's not act like like if you go out there and work hard and do the best job you can you will succeed 100% of the time. 99% of the team? Absolutely. But there are plenty of sh!tty people out there in our capitalistic society that don't play by the basic tenets of the philosophy. A good friend of mine got fired from her job (during one of those 6 month probationary periods) because she was doing too good of a job and making her boss look bad (and making her have to work harder; she was the definition of a leach). Since it was during that 6 month intro she didn't need to declare a reason for her firing. All she said was, "Personality differences." Before you go and say my friend was just being a whiner and should have worked harder, about a month after that the boss was found drunk and high lying on the floor after falling down the stairs. How about them apples, eh?

    I definitely believe the welfare system needs a massive overhaul to make sure that only those that truly need (and deserve) it get it. But it can't go anywhere, because as great as a perfect capitalistic society would be, there's no such thing as perfect in this world. Because society cannot be perfect.

    She should be glad they let her go so that she could work for a company who doesn't treat people like that. I like when people bring up stuff like this and act like they are forced to work for XYZ company. If you are getting treated unfairly, quit and find a better place to work. I use to tell my wife this all of the time about the company she used to work for. They would promote their friends, raises went to people who kissed the most ass, all the typical crap. All of her fellow co workers would sit around and bitch about how terrible their job was and how they got mistreated....and they were right. Thats the beauty of America, if you work for a shitty company you can quit and find a better place.

    America will always have a need for people who work hard and exceed expectations. If they don't appreciate that where you work now, someone else will.

    This post was edited by MarylandDawg on 11/9/2012 at 3:24 AM

    MarylandDawg

  • As much as us Republicans don't want to admit it, taxes must go up. We need to approach a balanced budget for a few years to get our debt to GDP back in order. The crazy thing is that the D's want more social programs. That would require a second tax increase, that's a death blow to what our generation has known of capitalism in this country. We in the US aren't prepared to pay European tax rates.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Sir Mix A Lot

  • FL Buckeye said...

    As much as us Republicans don't want to admit it, taxes must go up. We need to approach a balanced budget for a few years to get our debt to GDP back in order. The crazy thing is that the D's want more social programs. That would require a second tax increase, that's a death blow to what our generation has known of capitalism in this country. We in the US aren't prepared to pay European tax rates.

    Wait, what am I missing? Do you think the Dems are willing to admit it? Raising taxes only on the wealthiest 1-2% is populist nonsense. It does not work, never has, and never will. To pay for everything that the Dems want taxes need to be raised across the board. And not by a little. This includes the middle and lower middle class.

    brem22

  • brem22 said...

    Wait, what am I missing? Do you think the Dems are willing to admit it? Raising taxes only on the wealthiest 1-2% is populist nonsense. It does not work, never has, and never will. To pay for everything that the Dems want taxes need to be raised across the board. And not by a little. This includes the middle and lower middle class.

    Is this based off the previous four years' budgets?

    signature image signature image signature image

    92DT

  • 92DT said...

    Is this based off the previous four years' budgets?

    This is based off the reality of where we sit today. The past ten year's budgets, if you will.

    brem22

  • http://taxfoundation.org/article/federal-spending-received-dollar-taxes-paid-state-2005

    Every time I hear people from Alabama/Mississippi whine about how liberals are screwing them over with huge federal taxes, I think of this study.

    For every dollar MI pays in taxes, it gets $2 in federal aid. For Alabama, it's $1 in and $1.60 out. The best part? Of the states which pay in more than they get out, 16/17 voted for Obama in 2012.

    Those lazy republicans are just mooching the system.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/federal-spending-received-dollar-taxes-paid-state-2005

    Every time I hear people from Alabama/Mississippi whine about how liberals are screwing them over with huge federal taxes, I think of this study.

    For every dollar MI pays in taxes, it gets $2 in federal aid. For Alabama, it's $1 in and $1.60 out. The best part? Of the states which pay in more than they get out, 16/17 voted for Obama in 2012.

    Those lazy republicans are just mooching the system.

    You think of a study that uses 2005 numbers based off the 2004 election? While it probably holds to some degree today it's typical oversimplified Mother Jones gotcha irrelevance.

    There's no question people want it all ways at all times. They want their entitlements, they want lower taxes, and the want the economy to scream. But do you think the poorest of the red states want to be the cost center? Everyone in America wants the screaming economy and the lower taxes. The disagreement is in which path will get us to the holy trinity.

    brem22

  • brem22 said...

    You think of a study that uses 2005 numbers based off the 2004 election? While it probably holds to some degree today it's typical oversimplified Mother Jones gotcha irrelevance.

    What? Alabama and Mississippi have historically mooched off the federal government. This isn't 'oversimplified nonsense' - when you receive twice as much aid as you provide in taxes, you're a net negative.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • sf2k4 said...

    While your point is true and I agree with you, let's not act like like if you go out there and work hard and do the best job you can you will succeed 100% of the time. 99% of the team? Absolutely. But there are plenty of sh!tty people out there in our capitalistic society that don't play by the basic tenets of the philosophy. A good friend of mine got fired from her job (during one of those 6 month probationary periods) because she was doing too good of a job and making her boss look bad (and making her have to work harder; she was the definition of a leach). Since it was during that 6 month intro she didn't need to declare a reason for her firing. All she said was, "Personality differences." Before you go and say my friend was just being a whiner and should have worked harder, about a month after that the boss was found drunk and high lying on the floor after falling down the stairs. How about them apples, eh?

    I definitely believe the welfare system needs a massive overhaul to make sure that only those that truly need (and deserve) it get it. But it can't go anywhere, because as great as a perfect capitalistic society would be, there's no such thing as perfect in this world. Because society cannot be perfect.

    that's not the fault of capitalism, that's general corruption.
    in socialism, she would never have performed.
    think dmv, department of motor vehicles...jefferson county, 4 hour lines every day. looks like east germany in 1960. unhappy, un motivated, bottom feeding workers with no incentive, just crappy service.

    bottom line:
    1) God worked 6 days, rested the 7th.
    2) we're created in the image of God.
    3) man was meant to work.
    I'm all for good times and vacations, but there's a reason a lot of these early retirement people go cray.

    hubcitytider

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    What? Alabama and Mississippi have historically mooched off the federal government. This isn't 'oversimplified nonsense' - when you receive twice as much aid as you provide in taxes, you're a net negative.

    Im just going to leave this here and let you see which states are the biggest "moochers."

    The Moocher Index : States with the Most Welfare recipients, and the least | Politisite

    Many folks think the Moocher states are all in the south because of lower wages and a large poor population based on national standards.  Not so.  The top

    www.politisite.com

    justinboze

  • justinboze said...

    Im just going to leave this here and let you see which states are the biggest "moochers."

    The actual report he's referencing:
    http://www.cis.org/california-education

    Table 3 says 32% of all MI households are on welfare. More than 4% higher than anyone else.

    Either the state is full of moochers or the republican policies used have made the place completely destitute. Either way, not a ringing endorsment for republicans.

    ramssuperbowl99

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