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Higgs Boson

  • wps88 said...

    I really hate that when people try to discuss religion v. science it gets really ugly pretty quick. People can never be civil about it. They can't listen to the other side's beliefs. They just wanna spout their nonsense and throw up a wall that people with other beliefs can never break through. That's the damn problem with society now. Nobody listens. Everybody speaks, but nobody listens.

    it is a difficult subject for sure, one I intentionally avoid unless I can't handle the things being said and I have to jump in to attempt to bring rationale to the subject...was in Cancun 2 weeks ago and it ended up happening with a group of friends...haha i really tried to stay out of it until someone said "science proves god exists and I can show you..." so I lost my ability to stay out of the conversation with that one

    I am an atheist but I do respect those who have religious beliefs. I am no different in they are, just we see things differently. I can respect that as long as you are steadfast and don't waiver in your position.

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • wps88 said...

    That's another thing I hate. I grew up in a strict, Catholic family. I lived in the Bible Belt surrounded by Southern Baptists, CoCs, etc. It sucked.

    not catholic but I did grow up in a southern babtist and a Nazarene church and what really rocked my faith the most as a young man was when I had one of my best friends growing up (he is black and an awesome guy) come to church with me. I was excited to bring him and that's what my church always talked about was bringing your friends to Christ, bring them to Jesus.

    Well I did and the reception I got from the pastor and the congregation made me spite that place then and there. Pure un-adultered racism and bigotry. I talked to the pastor about it and his response was that his church was like a community and that my buddy had a community he could go to as well. I said what do you mean? Isn't this god's church and aren't we all members of his community? He just said I was too young to understand and that god knows what's best for everyone.

    So what I realized then and there was that if God existed, he didn't exist in that church, in that man's mind. That man was just interested in what pleased and benefited him. So I swore that place off and went to the Nazarene church. I didn't finally come to terms with where I am on religion/god until about 3-4 years ago.

    As an adult, unhinging yourself from all the things you held dear and sacred as a child is very hard to do.

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • wps88 said...

    I really hate that when people try to discuss religion v. science it gets really ugly pretty quick. People can never be civil about it. They can't listen to the other side's beliefs. They just wanna spout their nonsense and throw up a wall that people with other beliefs can never break through. That's the damn problem with society now. Nobody listens. Everybody speaks, but nobody listens.

    Well, i'm a Christian and really am not aware of anything in science that contradicts anything in the bible. I assume there is a scientific reason for the parting of the red sea, sodom an ghomora being destroyed, the walls of Jericho falling, etc. I think it is amazing it occurred within the confines of the laws of nature, or laws of physics, which would have been created by God, by my beliefs.

    VTSmitty

  • VTSmitty said...

    Well, i'm a Christian and really am not aware of anything in science that contradicts anything in the bible. I assume there is a scientific reason for the parting of the red sea, sodom an ghomora being destroyed, the walls of Jericho falling, etc. I think it is amazing it occurred within the confines of the laws of nature, or laws of physics, which would have been created by God, by my beliefs.

    and that's your beliefs...that's great

    but science doesn't think those events to have happened or at least in the manner they are told

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • greensooner said...

    and that's your beliefs...that's great

    but science doesn't think those events to have happened or at least in the manner they are told

    actually, I have seen documentary on the Discovery channel of how scientifically the events could have happened.

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    Dawg E Style161

  • rms02d said...

    The bible is allegory not "literal events"

    If you think a city in the desert, 1000 of miles away from a Volcano, was destroyed by the raining down of "fire and brimstone", then I guess thats your belief, but science would say it was an earthquake, and some say these cities never existed.

    No matter what way you slice it this is a stupid post. You're addressing a man who believes in God and your evidence that fire couldn't reign down on a city is its proximity to a volcano. Come on bro, disagree but at least show a functional brain in terms of understanding the opposing view point. That said, I'll dip out because this thread is about to go down in flames.

    The Bible is literal events. Whether you believe it or not is the question, you don't. Own that but don't try and tell us what the Bible is.

    This post was edited by fsufsu on 7/4/2012 at 12:31 PM

    fsufsu

  • rms02d said...

    The bible is allegory not "literal events"

    If you think a city in the desert, 1000 of miles away from a Volcano, was destroyed by the raining down of "fire and brimstone", then I guess thats your belief, but science would say it was an earthquake, and some say these cities never existed.

    Agree and the people that take the words in the Bible as literal are the problem when these types of discussions take place. It's like those fishing stories. The fish started at one size but down the line the same story will be told and the fish has grown considerably. Word of mouth always exaggerates. That's the Bible. Word of mouth. Greatest story there is but it's far from literal truth.

    jtmva

  • rms02d said...

    He said that science doesn't conflict with the bible and cited Soddom and Gommorah.

    There hasn't been a volcanic eruption in the middle east in 10,000 years.

    There is no scientific rationale for a literal interpretation of that event because fire doesn't rain spontaneously. If the city existed its more likely it was destroyed by an earthquake or warfare.

    Bible is a collection of stories borrowed from various periods of history over a 5,000 year period.

    If you think that there isn't any hyperbole and exageration in the stories, then Okay whatever.

    I guess you think the Trojan War was literally a 10-year siege of Troy, because thats what it said in the Illiad. For christs sake lol.

    "For Christ's sake"

    fsufsu

  • rms02d said...

    Its a great book, and there is nothing wrong with being religious, but its allegory. Its a story. Its not like people could just pull up the Wikipedia article on "Soddom and Gommorah" when they wrote the bible 3,000 years after the event. Its stories passed down by word of mouth over a thousand year period.

    People are stupid though so what can you do.

    The Book itself says otherwise. You're like a Muslim discussing Jesus. Jesus claimed to be God and yet Muslims say He was just a man but a legitimate prophet. He said He was God, He's either a crazy man or God. You can't have it both ways.

    The Bible claims to be literal in most cases, it claims to be inerrant and the revelation of God for man, not a collection of stories. Quit with your self aggrandising enlightenment routine, either condemn it or move on. No one cares that you get politics and discuss science and therefore you think you're enlightened enough to explain to Christians that their Bible is something you've come to understand.

    fsufsu

  • ok guys, we are straying into a bad topic which will derail the importance of the new discovery

    let's stay on point with the Higgs Boson and we can update this thread as necessary once new things are discovered/proved

    We won't get anywhere on the religion debate

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • To get away from the christianity discussion for a minute... I was just thinking about this...

    If all matter is based on how its fields of composure interact with this 12th higgs field... I wonder if it will be possible to map out someones life by doing a comparison of their double helix with the energy of the higgs field. No idea how this would work but something to think about.

    Fuzz

  • Fuzz said...

    To get away from the christianity discussion for a minute... I was just thinking about this...

    If all matter is based on how its fields of composure interact with this 12th higgs field... I wonder if it will be possible to map out someones life by doing a comparison of their double helix with the energy of the higgs field. No idea how this would work but something to think about.

    say what?

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    Dawg E Style161

  • rms02d said...

    The bible is allegory not "literal events"

    If you think a city in the desert, 1000 of miles away from a Volcano, was destroyed by the raining down of "fire and brimstone", then I guess thats your belief, but science would say it was an earthquake, and some say these cities never existed.

    History channel or discovery had a special on it and believe the cities have been located. The area is prone to earthquakes, and they have determined there are huge amounts of methane gas under the cities, which could have been released by an earthquake, rose in the air, ignited, and rained down on the cities. At least that is what the scientists said. In that scenario, the scientist believe the bible account would have been accurate.

    VTSmitty

  • One of the most dramatic episodes in the Old Testament, the parting of the Red Sea, may actually have happened, research has shown – although the event described in the Book of Exodus was more likely caused by freak weather conditions than the hand of Jehovah.

    Computer modelling suggests that a powerful wind – an east wind of 63mph blowing for 12 hours – could have divided the six-foot-deep waters just as depicted in the biblical story that has mystified scholars and inspired Hollywood film epics.

    For four hours, this would have created a land bridge two miles long and three miles wide.

    The likely location of the "miracle" was not the Red Sea, but a nearby spot in the Nile Delta, according to researchers at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research and the University of Colorado at Boulder. The findings are published in the online journal PLoS One.

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    Dawg E Style161

  • VTSmitty said...

    History channel or discovery had a special on it and believe the cities have been located. The area is prone to earthquakes, and they have determined there are huge amounts of methane gas under the cities, which could have been released by an earthquake, rose in the air, ignited, and rained down on the cities. At least that is what the scientists said. In that scenario, the scientist believe the bible account would have been accurate.

    not to discount that theory but it is just a theory and one that requires a lot of things to unfold for that to happen...they also have scientists/historians who try to rationalize Nostradamus on the Discovery/History channel so I take a lot of those things with a grain of salt

    my personal belief is that we won't ever truly know if the events in the bible ever happened and that's ok with me...the thing about the bible is either you believe in it or don't...I think to believe in it requires faith, to not requires proof (similar to Thomas the doubter story)

    you either believe it or don't but as a man of science when the book in question is the bible, it can't be brought up as proof something happened in an argument

    it's always faith vs. fact and which side do you stand on...you will not prove or disprove the bible fully ever

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • Dawg E. Style said...

    One of the most dramatic episodes in the Old Testament, the parting of the Red Sea, may actually have happened, research has shown – although the event described in the Book of Exodus was more likely caused by freak weather conditions than the hand of Jehovah.

    Computer modelling suggests that a powerful wind – an east wind of 63mph blowing for 12 hours – could have divided the six-foot-deep waters just as depicted in the biblical story that has mystified scholars and inspired Hollywood film epics.

    For four hours, this would have created a land bridge two miles long and three miles wide.

    The likely location of the "miracle" was not the Red Sea, but a nearby spot in the Nile Delta, according to researchers at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research and the University of Colorado at Boulder. The findings are published in the online journal PLoS One.

    Ya saw a doc on that. "Water turning to blood" is thought to be red tide poisoning. They tried to explain all the plagues and natural phenomenon of the Exodus through scientific explanation. Don't really remember it to well anymore though.

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    "I ponder the endlessness of the stars" - The Tragically Hip, Fully Completely

    OCanada

  • Last question: Why are some strict Christians against drinking when Jesus turned water into wine? I'm catholic. We drink in church. Giggidy. Communion FTW.

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    wps88

  • Dawg E. Style said...

    One of the most dramatic episodes in the Old Testament, the parting of the Red Sea, may actually have happened, research has shown – although the event described in the Book of Exodus was more likely caused by freak weather conditions than the hand of Jehovah.

    Computer modelling suggests that a powerful wind – an east wind of 63mph blowing for 12 hours – could have divided the six-foot-deep waters just as depicted in the biblical story that has mystified scholars and inspired Hollywood film epics.

    For four hours, this would have created a land bridge two miles long and three miles wide.

    The likely location of the "miracle" was not the Red Sea, but a nearby spot in the Nile Delta, according to researchers at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research and the University of Colorado at Boulder. The findings are published in the online journal PLoS One.

    now we are talking the semantics of possibilities vs. actualities

    it is likely some events took place and unlikely others did but the parting of the red sea, as was described in the bible, is a bit far fetched for me

    has another event like that ever taken place?

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • Dawg E. Style said...

    One of the most dramatic episodes in the Old Testament, the parting of the Red Sea, may actually have happened, research has shown – although the event described in the Book of Exodus was more likely caused by freak weather conditions than the hand of Jehovah.

    Computer modelling suggests that a powerful wind – an east wind of 63mph blowing for 12 hours – could have divided the six-foot-deep waters just as depicted in the biblical story that has mystified scholars and inspired Hollywood film epics.

    For four hours, this would have created a land bridge two miles long and three miles wide.

    The likely location of the "miracle" was not the Red Sea, but a nearby spot in the Nile Delta, according to researchers at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research and the University of Colorado at Boulder. The findings are published in the online journal PLoS One.

    Great stuff Dawg. Exactly why I believe science and the bible go hand in hand.

    VTSmitty

  • wps88 said...

    Last question: Why are some strict Christians against drinking when Jesus turned water into wine? I'm catholic. We drink in church. Giggidy. Communion FTW.

    good question, I think it ties to the notion of drinking to excess and the things that happen more often when people are inebriated

    the whole "your body is a temple" thing is where that comes from I suppose

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • VTSmitty said...

    Great stuff Dawg. Exactly why I believe science and the bible go hand in hand.

    The pope would agree with you there. He is the first pope to accept evolution as part of God's plan. He stated he believes in evolution but being pushed by the hand of god. "Intelligent Design" is how he describes it

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • greensooner said...

    good question, I think it ties to the notion of drinking to excess and the things that happen more often when people are inebriated

    the whole "your body is a temple" thing is where that comes from I suppose

    People that say that are hypocrites. Most are fat. Lay off the fast food if their body is a temple. Haha

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    wps88

  • wps88 said...

    People that say that are hypocrites. Most are fat. Lay off the fast food if their body is a temple. Haha

    I would say that's pretty accurate...most people want to preach and not do...the old adage "do what I saw, not what I do" is how most people are these days

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    University of Oklahoma: B.S. Aerospace Engineering '10, M.S. Mechanical Engineering '12

    greensooner

  • Welp, this took an unnecessary turn.

    Sooner, thanks for the thorough and understandable explanation.

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    MsnBama

  • greensooner said...

    The pope would agree with you there. He is the first pope to accept evolution as part of God's plan. He stated he believes in evolution but being pushed by the hand of god. "Intelligent Design" is how he describes it

    I guess people on both sides get hung up on many issues and close their minds to accepting possibilities that don't even conflict with what their belief system may be. I think you or someone else in this thread said people have become incaple of listening and understanding others points of view. Sad but true. Kind of like my wife arguing with me, and not understanding I am agreeing with her. Lol

    VTSmitty

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