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How long does ND continue to get preferential treatment?

  • Ichabod said...

    Like I said I really need a computer to show you.

    I did a research paper on athletics and money brought in so I have the Bama numbers and the money brought in plus profits made.

    But I'm not trying to argue about who makes more and that. My original point was that Notre Dame is a much more recognizable brand than Alabama and Texas.

    While Texas and Alabama are THE brands here in the South, nationally it is Notre Dame. When you are the national brand nationally then the media is gonna hype you more. The average American doesn't have great media literacy so they take whatever is said on TV to be actual and not slanted.

    I could really go on and on and analyze certain areas and show examples but I don't have the resources nor the time available with just an iPhone

    Even brand wise, Alabama is at this point about the same. Pretty sure Bama has the same number of AP titles as ND, tied for the most nationally.

    And our latest two are recent as opposed to ND's which was nearly 25 years ago. I just think you discount recent success too much when figuring 'brand.'

    I mean look at the Cowboys- in the 90s they were Americas team. Now they're just like anyone else and their success was more recent than ND's.

    That being said if you want to send me that paper when you get a chance, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

    TalHawkins112

  • TalHawkins112 said...

    Even brand wise, Alabama is at this point about the same. Pretty sure Bama has the same number of AP titles as ND, tied for the most nationally.

    And our latest two are recent as opposed to ND's which was nearly 25 years ago. I just think you discount recent success too much when figuring 'brand.'

    I mean look at the Cowboys- in the 90s they were Americas team. Now they're just like anyone else and their success was more recent than ND's.

    That being said if you want to send me that paper when you get a chance, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

    Will do.

    May be a day or 2 so if I forget please send me a PM to remind me

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    Ichabod

  • TalHawkins112 said...

    Even brand wise, Alabama is at this point about the same. Pretty sure Bama has the same number of AP titles as ND, tied for the most nationally.

    And our latest two are recent as opposed to ND's which was nearly 25 years ago. I just think you discount recent success too much when figuring 'brand.'

    I mean look at the Cowboys- in the 90s they were Americas team. Now they're just like anyone else and their success was more recent than ND's.

    That being said if you want to send me that paper when you get a chance, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

    Heisman Trophy winners, All Americans, players drafted to the NFL and Pro Football Hall of Famers is where Bama has a way to go to catch up to Notre Dame.

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    "Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil

    usctrojan1

  • While they don't command the loyalty of any Catholic school kid like they used too, they still have a tremendous advantage with kids from catholic schools, who often produce some of the best teams in most states

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    "The Michigan Man is certain he invented the Big Ten, along with intellect, cocktails and sex."

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  • usctrojanglory said...

    Because both recruit Ohio hard which is a great state for football talent.

    We do a good job in Illinois and Pennsylvania too. Michigan might not be located in Southern California, but there is plenty of good talent at most positions in the Midwest every year. We usually need to pick up a handful of skill players from other areas of the country to round out all of our needs, but if we can do that we should be fine.

    MrWoodson

  • MrWoodson said...

    We do a good job in Illinois and Pennsylvania too. Michigan might not be located in Southern California, but there is plenty of good talent at most positions in the Midwest every year. We usually need to pick up a handful of skill players from other areas of the country to round out all of our needs, but if we can do that we should be fine.

    I agree but you guys don't have to reach as far as ND recruit well.

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    USC is a powerful place that Lane Kiffin is ruining.

    usctrojanglory

  • LSU is the most relevant school right now. Everyone sees that eye and knows, oh chit that's LSU

    LScootU

  • usctrojan1 said...

    Heisman Trophy winners, All Americans, players drafted to the NFL and Pro Football Hall of Famers is where Bama has a way to go to catch up to Notre Dame.

    Bama has always been more team oriented and gets less individual awards. Plus a lot of those have been politically motivated selections in the past.

    Check out collegefootballdatawarehouse.com they have a pretty good method taking into account titles, big four bowl games, SoS and..gosh I forget the last criteria for deciding who the best program is.

    TalHawkins112

  • TalHawkins112 said...

    Bama has always been more team oriented and gets less individual awards. Plus a lot of those have been politically motivated selections in the past.

    Check out collegefootballdatawarehouse.com they have a pretty good method taking into account titles, big four bowl games, SoS and..gosh I forget the last criteria for deciding who the best program is.

    "Bama has always been more team oriented"

    LOL. Is that how you're going to spin that now? Notre Dame, Penn State, USC, etc. do not put the names on the back of the jerseys...guess why? TEAM FIRST, Alabama is not the only one, or the first to play with that philosophy...yet, players from those programs produce All Americans, send a ton of kids to the NFL, and Pro HOFers.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by usctrojan1 on 6/21/2012 at 4:01 PM

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    "Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil

    usctrojan1

  • usctrojan1 said...

    LOL. Is that how you're going to spin that now? Notre Dame, Penn State, USC, etc. do not put the names on the back of the jerseys...guess why? TEAM FIRST.

    You really just used names on the back of a jersey for the sole reason of team first?

    Not the greatest reasoning. I mean I see where you come from but it's a weak argument

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    Ichabod

  • usctrojanglory said...

    I agree but you guys don't have to reach as far as ND recruit well.

    I agree. Michigan produces much more/better talent than Indiana and we have historically recruited much better in Ohio than ND (probably because of our rivalry with OSU). But ND has advantages we don't have. They are automatically on the radar of every national player who attends Catholic HS. They get more media coverage than any program in the country. And they control their schedule, which means they can play high profile games in every region of the country nearly every year. People are quick to see ND's disadvantages because they have been mediocre on the field for so long, but they totally underestimate the many advantages ND has.

    ND just needs to find a good college FB coach who understands ND and can sell the program's history, tradition and academics. They will never be Alabama, but neither will USC or Texas. Every program is slightly different. The key is in identifying your competitive advantages and successfully marketing them. Hell, that's what Pete Carroll did at USC. It's also one of the major the difference between the successful Miami of the 80s and 90s and the emasculated one of today. Miami is trying to be something it's not.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 6/21/2012 at 4:05 PM

    MrWoodson

  • Not putting names on jerseys is retarded

    LScootU

  • usctrojan1 said...

    "Bama has always been more team oriented"

    LOL. Is that how you're going to spin that now? Notre Dame, Penn State, USC, etc. do not put the names on the back of the jerseys...guess why? TEAM FIRST, Alabama is not the only one, or the first to play with that philosophy...yet, players from those programs produce All Americans, send a ton of kids to the NFL, and Pro HOFers.

    The 2nd part was much stronger argument.

    At Alabama we've never really tried to feature a player so while we've had great players we just have never jumped on 1 players back as much. Ingram and Alexander are the only 2 that come to mind.

    Now USC has featured guys like Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson. I won't throw in Leinart and Bush just because that entire team was nasty.

    But we are really getting off topic since ND is the argument

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    Ichabod

  • ND is certainly on the decline. If you go by ratings, sales, fans, etc they are only on the same level as other regional powers like Southern Cal, Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc.

    If they keep playing the way they have been, this will continue to decline. I don't have the numbers but I'd be willing to wager the average age of their fans is higher than most other schools.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • Ichabod said...

    You really just used names on the back of a jersey for the sole reason of team first?

    Not the greatest reasoning. I mean I see where you come from but it's a weak argument

    "We played for the love of this university, the history of the program, for pride and each other ......." Matt Barkley

    The no names on the back of the jerseys is part of a programs tradition and culture, the "Team First" philosophy that has been handed down through generations of players.

    Straight from just one player..as just one example of the pervasive feeling among our current and past players.

    BigMikeWill17 “@12th_army: @BigMikeWill17 Why no names on SC jerseys?”--unity n team first. stand out by makin plays and break records.. #FIGHTON
    About 67 days ago by Mike Williams Seattle Seahawks - Wide Receiver

    This post was edited by usctrojan1 on 6/21/2012 at 4:10 PM

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    "Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil

    usctrojan1

  • usctrojan1 said...

    "We played for the love of this university, the history of the program, for pride and each other ......." Matt Barkley

    The no names on the back of the jerseys is part of a programs tradition and culture, the "Team First" philosophy that has been handed down through generations of players.

    Straight from just one player..as just one example of the pervasive feeling among our current and past players.

    BigMikeWill17 “@12th_army: @BigMikeWill17 Why no names on SC jerseys?”--unity n team first. stand out by makin plays and break records.. #FIGHTON
    About 67 days ago by Mike Williams Seattle Seahawks - Wide Receiver

    I can quote AJ McCarron saying essientially the same thing.

    But this thread is about ND not playing as a team

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    Ichabod

  • MrWoodson said...

    Then explain why Stanford has been mediocre for most of its history. And FWIW the majority of Stanford's players are not from California (only 3 of 22 players in their 2012 class were from Cali). That argument might explain USC's success but it does not explain Stanford's. The difference between Stanford historically and Stanford the last five years is one thing: Jim Harbaugh.

    That Andrew Luck guy was a big part of it. Put him at just about any other school in America and they win the national title the last two seasons.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • Ichabod said...

    I can quote AJ McCarron saying essientially the same thing.

    But this thread is about ND not playing as a team

    Oh they play as a team their just not that good.

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    USC is a powerful place that Lane Kiffin is ruining.

    usctrojanglory

  • NDPhilly

  • usctrojanglory said...

    Oh they play as a team their just not that good.

    Should have used some punctuation.

    Meant to say that the threads about ND, not who plays as a team

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    Ichabod

  • NDPhilly said...

    THIS.

    We don't know what this is...

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    Ichabod

  • joetheogre said...

    That Andrew Luck guy was a big part of it. Put him at just about any other school in America and they win the national title the last two seasons.

    Well, someone went into Texas and snagged him right out from under the noses of all the top schools in the state including UT. And they developed him and recruited and developed some very good OL and some good RBs and TEs to put around him. And some solid defensive players. The fact is that Stanford was at the bottom of the P12 (a not uncommon place for it to be) before Harbaugh arrived. So don't tell me Stanford has been competing as a top 10 team the past few years because they are in Cali and have advantages no one else has. They've been successful recently for one reason: they hired the right coach. You can have all the advantages in the world, but if you have the wrong coach you will not be successful (see Lloyd Carr v. RR v. Brady Hoke). ND will be successful again when they hire the right coach. And until that time they won't.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 6/21/2012 at 5:04 PM

    MrWoodson

  • MrWoodson said...

    Well, someone went into Texas and snagged him right out from under the noses of all the top schools in the state including UT. And they developed him and recruited and developed some very good OL and some good RBs and TEs to put around him. And some solid defensive players. The fact is that Stanford was at the bottom of the P12 (a not uncommon place for it to be) before Harbaugh arrived. So don't tell me Stanford has been competing as a top 10 team the past few years because they are in Cali and have advantages no one else has. They've been successful recently for one reason: they hired the right coach. You can have all the advantages in the world, but if you have the wrong coach you will not be successful (see Lloyd Carr v. RR v. Brady Hoke). ND will be successful again when they hire the right coach. And until that time they won't.

    You're right. Harbaugh is man, but his success would have been much less without Luck. The last two seasons would have been more like the 2009 season.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • joetheogre said...

    ND is certainly on the decline. If you go by ratings, sales, fans, etc they are only on the same level as other regional powers like Southern Cal, Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc.

    If they keep playing the way they have been, this will continue to decline. I don't have the numbers but I'd be willing to wager the average age of their fans is higher than most other schools.

    So you are saying that after 20+ years of being on the decline, ND is only gone down to the level of USC, Florida, Texas and Alabama? Not bad if you ask me.

    I believe coach Kelly is the right guy for the job. So many people find it easy to say things bad about him, but he really isn't any different than many other top tier coaches. "red face"? Many times will you see other coaches get this way. He's Irish, face does that. The microscope he is under at ND doesn't compare to any other schools. As was said earlier, ND needs a coach who is going to build a program, not just coach a football team. BK has a plan and if you follow the recruiting he and his staff have been doing, he is definitely building a program. I can't wait til we start winning, and all this silly talk will be over.

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  • I hate them but they are a top 5 fanbase and they RAKE
    Until that changes, they will always have a say

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