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I don't think we have a gun problem

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    The main purpose of a knife was to kill/skin animals or other humans.. Ban them too?

    Slippery slope again.

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    devidee

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    If the middle grounds here was stricter gun control and a ban on assault rifles, I could agree to that.

    Thank you for being reasonable.

    I agree with this as well.

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    devidee

  • bhiley77 said...

    Exactly.

    So you're suggesting this type of thing happens all the time to black children and the media doesn't report it? That seems a little extreme.

    TideJoe

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    Neither is marbles, nails or any other sharp objects often found in homemade bombs.. You are the one on the slippery slope my friend. Go ahead and try to take away our constitutional right and see how that works out for you. Making a bomb is pretty simple. I'd rather deal with a few idiots and their guns than a bunch of extremist setting off bombs.. To each his own though.

    The problems is that you're talking apples and oranges. I could obtain all those items, but they still aren't going to hurt anyone on their own. I would have to go out of my way to make those objects become harmful and alter their intended purpose. The intent of guns is to inflict damage. You do not have to do anything other than pull the trigger. Guns are the one product in the US that there is a giant backlash when the product actually performs to its intention. No one is suing a knife company because someone tried to stab their spouse. It is only when the product does not work in its intended purpose, then there will be legal action taken against a company. Why is it only guns? Because guns are inherently dangerous and the US has allowed them to become even more dangerous with loose guns laws.

    CliftonHokie09

  • bhiley77 said...

    The main reason is that criminals don't buy guns legally, so changing the mechanisms by which law abiding people purchase guns doesn't change much..

    You know, I see people saying this in every thread, but could someone actually provide some evidence supporting it? I don't support a gun ban or anything like that, but I think this whole "criminals don't buy guns legally" argument may be a bit overblown.

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    sf2k4

  • Also to assert that everyone who murders someone is "not mentally stable" just isn't accurate. A fit of rage can easily end up as murder if someone has a handgun or another type of gun readily available at their disposal, especially if intoxicated.

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    mriderblue12

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    If the middle grounds here was stricter gun control and a ban on assault rifles, I could agree to that.

    Thank you for being reasonable.

    I agree, I see no purpose in having assault rifles

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    I dream of a day when chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

    Gfortress5

  • bhiley77 said...

    The main reason is that criminals don't buy guns legally, so changing the mechanisms by which law abiding people purchase guns doesn't change much.

    Another reason is strict gun laws are rarely practical the way they're authored. They're designed to make people feel good but don't accomplish much. A good example is the old assault weapons ban, which basically assigned guns "evil points", by which you could have perhaps a folding stock or a short barrel, but not both, because that would be too many evil points.

    Would you be against assault rifle bans, bans on extended clips, psychological exams, etc. I just dont see the harm in increased measures.

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    eastcoastghost

  • mriderblue12 said...

    Also to assert that everyone who murders someone is "not mentally stable" just isn't accurate. A fit of rage can easily end up as murder if someone has a handgun or another type of gun readily available at their disposal, especially if intoxicated.

    No, you'd have to have a problem with anger issues if in a fit of rage you go so far as to kill someone. Normal, well adjusted people don't kill other people.

    This post was edited by sf2k4 on 12/15/2012 at 10:10 AM

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    sf2k4

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    The main purpose of a knife was to kill/skin animals or other humans.. Ban them too?

    Hunting knives are designed for hunting, just as butcher knives are for butchering. There are no "killing people knives." Just like there are guns, rifles, designed for hunting. You're not going to see as much of a backlash against those types of guns because (a) they are big and noticeable and (b) they are automatic, so they are not easy to reload and constantly shoot. Same with shotguns. My family owns both types and I have no problem with either type of gun. Those two type of guns are not used in massacres because of those two reasons.

    I personally do not like handguns because they do not fit those two categories I outlined, but I know it is impossible to try to ban handguns in this country.

    CliftonHokie09

  • bhiley77 said...

    Do you need evidence that the sky is blue too?

    Criminals sell drugs, despite the fact that drugs are illegal! Where do they buy the drugs to resell then? Surely the fact they're banned prevents this! I think this whole "drug war" thing may be a bit overblown.

    So... Where's that link showing how many guns used in shootings were bought legally?

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    You know, I see people saying this in every thread, but could someone actually provide some evidence supporting it? I don't support a gun ban or anything like that, but I think this whole "criminals don't buy guns legally" argument may be a bit overblown.

    Well you can't buy a gun legally if you've committed a felony. Sure some people buy guns legally then commit their first crime, but there's absolutely no way to prevent that. Even if all gun sales were banned, there's still a private sales market that will never go away. I just don't see away to keep crazy people from doing crazy things..... unless we just lock them all up.

    TideJoe

  • bhiley77 said...

    The main reason is that criminals don't buy guns legally, so changing the mechanisms by which law abiding people purchase guns doesn't change much.

    Another reason is strict gun laws are rarely practical the way they're authored. They're designed to make people feel good but don't accomplish much. A good example is the old assault weapons ban, which basically assigned guns "evil points", by which you could have perhaps a folding stock or a short barrel, but not both, because that would be too many evil points.

    This is a terrible argument, no offense. Criminals are criminals because they deviate from the normal grounds of society. If we viewed every other policy on what criminals are willing to do, then we should go ahead and legalize everything else we have deemed unsafe. Do away with laws against on drugs, drunk driving, cigarettes, etc. If people are able to drive home after drinking and get home safe then let them. Why should society stop them? I'll tell you why. Because the risk involved is much higher when they get behind the wheel after drinking. Just as there is a greater risk for me to develop lung cancer from second hand smoke at a restaurant that allows smoking. There is always the chance that everything will be fine, but the risk elevates because of external factors involved like drunk driving and smoking. Same theory applies with guns. When guns laws are loose, then you are more likely to have people obtain guns legally who have not had problems with the law in the past and still go on mass shooting sprees. More should have been done to prevent this individual from obtaining guns.

    CliftonHokie09

  • TideJoe said...

    Well you can't buy a gun legally if you've committed a felony. Sure some people buy guns legally then commit their first crime, but there's absolutely no way to prevent that. Even if all gun sales were banned, there's still a private sales market that will never go away. I just don't see away to keep crazy people from doing crazy things..... unless we just lock them all up.

    When you see these massacres, none of these shooters were criminals prior to the shootings. But they all obtained guns legally. You can most certainly prevent this with stronger background checks that will make all buyers go through a psych evaluation.

    Here's an article about some guns facts that I thought was interesting.

    Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

    www.washingtonpost.com

    CliftonHokie09

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    I'm all for it to an extent...

    Lamp, are any of your guns assault rifles? If the government asked you to turn those in, would you?

    I know the shooter didn't use an assault rifle, but I fail to see why any citizen needs an assault rifle.

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    mriderblue12

  • TideJoe said...

    So when were black school children killed? I hadn't seen any news of it.

    I do at least once a week. Must be where you live in rural Alabama

    LScootU

  • CliftonHokie09 said...

    When you see these massacres, none of these shooters were criminals prior to the shootings. But they all obtained guns legally. You can most certainly prevent this with stronger background checks that will make all buyers go through a psych evaluation.

    Here's an article about some guns facts that I thought was interesting.

    Just a little devil's advocate here..... so what happens when some asshole passes the psych eval, then breaks into a house and kills everyone in it and we find out that the homeowner couldn't defend himself because he flunked his eval for some reason.

    There's no simple solution to this problem.

    TideJoe

  • LScootU said...

    I do at least once a week. Must be where you live in rural Alabama

    I don't live in Alabama.

    TideJoe

  • mriderblue12 said...

    Lamp, are any of your guns assault rifles? If the government asked you to turn those in, would you?

    I know the shooter didn't use an assault rifle, but I fail to see why any citizen needs an assault rifle.

    For fun, I'm not turning in any gun from my hand gun, to shot gun, to rifle, to AR-15

    LScootU

  • LScootU said...

    I do at least once a week. Must be where you live in rural Alabama

    You see where 20 kids are murdered in a massacre at a school every week?

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    gabe_c_ua

  • TideJoe said...

    I don't live in Alabama.

    So you live in a rural area where black people aren't around in hugh numbers

    LScootU

  • gabe_c_ua said...

    You see where 20 kids are murdered in a massacre at a school every week?

    Did I say that?? Go back, read what I quoted and report back to me

    LScootU

  • The problem isn't the guns, not gun control, not any gun regulations, it's the American people. We can never be accounted for anything, the values aren't there, more and more people want handouts, the people in this nation is on a 50/50 right now. Take guns away and another civil war will most likely occur

    LScootU

  • LScootU said...

    So you live in a rural area where black people aren't around in hugh numbers

    Wrong again, but keep throwing out your stereotypes.

    TideJoe

  • LScootU said...

    The problem isn't the guns, not gun control, not any gun regulations, it's the American people. We can never be accounted for anything, the values aren't there, more and more people want handouts, the people in this nation is on a 50/50 right now. Take guns away and another civil war will most likely occur

    Agree completely.

    TideJoe