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I will give Obama my full support if:

  • BenelliDawg said...

    When was the last time a weapon prohibited by the assault weapons ban was actually used in a mass murder?

    There may have been during this last event. All I read was handguns and a .223 rifle (assuming ar15), so this is an honest question.

    The .223 was found in his vehicle. At this point, there is no reason to believe it was used in the attack.

    FortWorthTide

  • joetheogre said...

    Would be more cost effective to provide better access to mental health care

    While I agree with you - the cost of providing our schools with on site security would dwarf the cost of dumping funds into mental health care. It would also provide less of an opportunity for opportunistic vultures to make money.

    About 20-25 years ago any kid who walked into a doctors office with a short attention span was put on Ritalin. It was easier to numb your kid than to work with them and physicians were rewarded with trips and gifts from the drug reps based on the volume of scripts written. Fast forward - a large portion of those kids who were put on Ritalin developed a drug dependent life style - some bounced to other stronger ADD meds - some moved on to Illegal narcotics.

    The other issue with mental health care is that there is no standard for treatment. A patient can tell psychiatrist he is going to commit suicide or homicide and because of lawyers an confidentiality unless the patient tells the police or crisis himself - nobody can do anything.

    Just hope the president was genuine and those tears were not crocodile tears - hoping he follows through on his promise and does not use it for liberal agendas.

    Leppycole

  • Leppycole said...

    While I agree with you - the cost of providing our schools with on site security would dwarf the cost of dumping funds into mental health care. It would also provide less of an opportunity for opportunistic vultures to make money.

    About 20-25 years ago any kid who walked into a doctors office with a short attention span was put on Ritalin. It was easier to numb your kid than to work with them and physicians were rewarded with trips and gifts from the drug reps based on the volume of scripts written. Fast forward - a large portion of those kids who were put on Ritalin developed a drug dependent life style - some bounced to other stronger ADD meds - some moved on to Illegal narcotics.

    The other issue with mental health care is that there is no standard for treatment. A patient can tell psychiatrist he is going to commit suicide or homicide and because of lawyers an confidentiality unless the patient tells the police or crisis himself - nobody can do anything.

    Just hope the president was genuine and those tears were not crocodile tears - hoping he follows through on his promise and does not use it for liberal agendas.

    FYI, drug reps can't (or aren't supposed to) do that stuff anymore. My dad's a doctor and he used to get those same gifts/trips (though he didn't sacrifice his treatment while doing so) but they stopped a few years ago.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Society has always been relative. Your idea of what society used to be is a myth.

    Much easier for people to think that they spent their childhood in an idyllic America and that any tragedy is further proof of the country falling apart.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre ●

  • TroyTide said...

    Just once admit you are wrong. Society was much safer pre 1950 than today...that's a fact.

    Yeah. I wish we could go back to a time when crosses were burned in people yards and spousal abuse was just "private" matter. You are kidding yourself if you think the 40s weren't dangerous.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Here are some other ideas: -Reinstitute the assault weapons ban -Regulate handgun clips to lower amounts -Eliminate/Regulate the sale of weapons at gun shows -Institute a psychiatric exam

    And yet we'll still have illegal gun trading and the use of already illegal firearms will go toward killing innocent people. However, just before the weapons are used to murder innocent people, we'll be rest assured knowing that those illegal weapons are even more illegal.

    This is like banning matches so people don't burn down houses.

    Harry Callahan ●

  • Harry Callahan said...

    And yet we'll still have illegal gun trading and the use of already illegal firearms will go toward killing innocent people. However, just before the weapons are used to murder innocent people, we'll be rest assured knowing that those illegal weapons are even more illegal.

    This is like banning matches so people don't burn down houses.

    I don't understand why you need any of those regulations? Do you need assault weapons or higher handgun clips? Do you need to buy guns at gun shows or avoid taking a psych evaluation when you buy a new gun?

    This is nothing like banning matches. This is like banning flame throwers (which are legal), but would definitely be illegal if people were using them at the frequency of guns.

    CliftonHokie09

  • Leppycole said...

    He takes some of the wasted money spent on worthless federal programs an gives states money to put full time security at every school in the US.

    The schools cannot afford to provide security for our children yet the banks get millions and millions of federal support to protect our money.

    Most middle schools in Lake county, FL have full time police officers present. It's a start.

    signature image signature image signature image

    I Believe Auburn and Love IT...4 Life! You should prepare yourself to live with the consequences of your decisions, whatever they may be.

    AuburnInOrlando

  • TroyTide said...

    Just once admit you are wrong. Society was much safer pre 1950 than today...that's a fact.

    I went and crunched the numbers:

    In 1960 there were 9110 murders in America for 179,323,175 people. That is a rate of .0000508 of the population murdered.

    In 2011 there were 14,612 murders in America for 311,591,917 people. That is a rate of .0000468 of the population murdered.

    United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2011

    United States crime statistics, United States, United States rape, United States murder, United States property crime, United States crime index, United States violent crime, violent crime in United States, United States burglary, United States vehicle theft, United States larceny, United States robbery, rate, United States vehicle theft, crime, index, United States crime rates, United States crime report, reports

    www.disastercenter.com
    signature image signature image signature image

    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre ●

  • Harry Callahan said...

    And yet we'll still have illegal gun trading and the use of already illegal firearms will go toward killing innocent people. However, just before the weapons are used to murder innocent people, we'll be rest assured knowing that those illegal weapons are even more illegal.

    This is like banning matches so people don't burn down houses.

    No. That would be analogous to banning guns to prevent gun deaths, which I'm not suggesting.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BenelliDawg said...

    When was the last time a weapon prohibited by the assault weapons ban was actually used in a mass murder?

    There may have been during this last event. All I read was handguns and a .223 rifle (assuming ar15), so this is an honest question.

    They've been used in almost a quarter of all mass murders since 1982. Imagine if we could end 25% of all mass murders. That's a great start.

    That's what the whole gist of this is. It isn't to end gun crimes (that's impossible given the amount of guns we have), its to take constructive measures to find common variables along mass murders and try to minimize them.

    That's why my smaller clip proposal would work because mass murders don't tend to be involved with inaccurate or hard to use weapons like revolvers or shotguns. If we can make it harder for the gunman, make him a bigger target, anything to minimize these atrocities.

    By the way, I think background checks, psych tests type stuff is very applicable. Almost all of the weapons used in mass murders since 1982 have been acquired legally.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BetterOff said...

    This doesn't happen in England. It can be controlled. It takes time and won't happen overnight, but we can get there.

    Move to England.

    signature image signature image signature image

    DrStache ●

  • You can go to your local Walmart and buy household items and a box of nails that could literally kill 100's of people at once. It's not that hard to do.

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    DrStache ●

  • Mr.Stache said...

    You can go to your local Walmart and buy household items and a box of nails that could literally kill 100's of people at once. It's not that hard to do.

    I imagine that process is much more time-consuming as well as requires much more planning and proper execution.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • Mr.Stache said...

    You can go to your local Walmart and buy household items and a box of nails that could literally kill 100's of people at once. It's not that hard to do.

    But none of those items are intended to cause harm. Guns have one purpose and they do it very effectively. Too effectively.

    CliftonHokie09

  • CliftonHokie09 said...

    I don't understand why you need any of those regulations? Do you need assault weapons or higher handgun clips? Do you need to buy guns at gun shows or avoid taking a psych evaluation when you buy a new gun?

    This is nothing like banning matches. This is like banning flame throwers (which are legal), but would definitely be illegal if people were using them at the frequency of guns.

    My main point is that if someone is crazy enough to get a gun and use it to kill people (specifically children) then they aren't going to care if the gun is more or less illegal to own. They will obtain it anyway they can to go and murder little kids. That's my overall logic.

    I do agree that we don't need to be selling certain types of weapons that people in the military use and we could tighten up some of the gun laws. I just don't think it's going to stop someone from shooting up children. I don't know what the solution is though.

    Harry Callahan ●

  • Mr.Stache said...

    You can go to your local Walmart and buy household items and a box of nails that could literally kill 100's of people at once. It's not that hard to do.

    Your argument is invalid, you can't have a mass murder with nails. It doesn't happen. 22 kids were injured in China during a knife invasion, none were killed.

    Hot Sauce

  • Yeah - you are spot on - it is almost impossible to control

    Leppycole

  • Harry Callahan said...

    My main point is that if someone is crazy enough to get a gun and use it to kill people (specifically children) then they aren't going to care if the gun is more or less illegal to own. They will obtain it anyway they can to go and murder little kids. That's my overall logic.

    I do agree that we don't need to be selling certain types of weapons that people in the military use and we could tighten up some of the gun laws. I just don't think it's going to stop someone from shooting up children. I don't know what the solution is though.

    We're not sure if they will get a gun illegally. Statistics show that the people committing these mass shootings obtain the guns legally because they do not have criminal histories. Maybe they try to obtain a gun illegally, but that's just guesswork right now.

    My point is to not prevent responsible law abiding gun owners from obtaining guns legally, but to stop unstable, insane people from obtaining guns illegally. It's a hindrance to law abiding citizens, but just like we have TSA checks before boarding a plane, we need to take the same precautions in order to obtain a gun.

    CliftonHokie09

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    They've been used in almost a quarter of all mass murders since 1982. Imagine if we could end 25% of all mass murders. That's a great start.

    That's what the whole gist of this is. It isn't to end gun crimes (that's impossible given the amount of guns we have), its to take constructive measures to find common variables along mass murders and try to minimize them.

    That's why my smaller clip proposal would work because mass murders don't tend to be involved with inaccurate or hard to use weapons like revolvers or shotguns. If we can make it harder for the gunman, make him a bigger target, anything to minimize these atrocities.

    By the way, I think background checks, psych tests type stuff is very applicable. Almost all of the weapons used in mass murders since 1982 have been acquired legally.

    When was the last one....

    BenelliDawg ●

  • BenelliDawg said...

    When was the last one....

    Aurora IIRC

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • Pretty sure a shotgun is adequate for home defense.

    This post was edited by Roflcopter118 on 12/15/2012 at 5:49 PM

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    Roflcopter118

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Aurora IIRC

    Nope. None of the weapons used were prohibited by the FAWB

    This post was edited by BenelliDawg on 12/15/2012 at 7:07 PM

    BenelliDawg ●

  • BenelliDawg said...

    Nope. None of the weapons used were prohibited by the FAWB

    I guess it depends on the modification, but assault weapons have been used in almost a quarter of the of the mass murders since 1982. Imagine a twenty-five percent difference? That's huge in one measure.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • joetheogre said...

    Yeah. I wish we could go back to a time when crosses were burned in people yards and spousal abuse was just "private" matter. You are kidding yourself if you think the 40s weren't dangerous.

    I didn't say they weren't dangerous and that bad things didn't happen. But they were still a lot less dangerous than today. That is just a fact.

    TroyTide

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