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Illinois sent 6 coaches to PSU parking lot to recruit players

  • kitemac said...

    Absolutely agree that the Board on Enforcement/Infractions (can't remember what it's called) should have been the one to do the sanctions. I don't disagree with them using the Freeh investigation at all though. I only disagree with Emmert being the judge and jury.

    There is nothing wrong with the NCAA using the Freeh Report. But it is just a report. PSU should have been served by the NCAA with a NOI and had a chance to respond. The Freeh Report is not some legally binding document based on rules of evidence and due process. It's one man's opinions and he didn't even have an opportunity to interview many of the parties because of the pending criminal cases. The NCAA should use all the evidence at its disposal, but that doesn't mean it should disregard proper rules and procedures.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 7/25/2012 at 2:47 PM

    MrWoodson

  • Action Figure said...

    Haha. The only reason Chizik didn't try to convince Iowa State's commits to go with him to Auburn is because well...they were Iowa State commits. Believe that.

    Most HCs don't try and convince players that are currently living on campus to goto another school just days later. They don't try and convince EEs to not goto class for the first few days so they can follow them across the country. You still didn't answer my question though.

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    kitemac

  • MrWoodson said...

    There is nothing wrong with the NCAA using the Fresh Report. But it is just a report. PSU should have been served by the NCAA with a NOI and had a chance to respond. The Freeh Report is not some legally binding document based on rules of evidence and due process. It's one man's opinions and he didn't even have an opportunity to interview many of the parties because of pending litigation. The NCAA should use all the evidence at its disposal, but that doesn't mean it should disregard proper rules and procedures.

    The Freeh Report is way more comprehensive than any report that the NCAA has ever come up with. NCAA piggy backs on most other investigations to find their information. This is no different. Only thing they should have done differently is let it go through the Board of Infractions instead of trying to just make it quick with Emmert.

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    kitemac

  • kitemac said...

    My guess is the NCAA thought the President had consenting power. Most presidents do or will get it before they consent to anything.

    JMO but it makes PSU look even more out of control. The BOT hire a new president after their last failed miserably and he can't even do the first major thing right? For such a smart school your leaders sure are incompetent.

    The NCAA is full of lawyers. They knew very well this kind of deal probably needed BOT approval. Maybe they were misled by Erickson or maybe they knew full well Erickson still needed formal board approval regardless of the signature (my guess would be the latter), but either way the NCAA is not naive enough to think Erickson had authority to approve $60 million in fines all on his own. Somewhere along the line the BOT needs to sign off on that.

    MrWoodson

  • kitemac said...

    Most HCs don't try and convince players that are currently living on campus to goto another school just days later. They don't try and convince EEs to not goto class for the first few days so they can follow them across the country. You still didn't answer my question though.

    I did answer your question. I said that Kiffin was a smart man for doing what he did. Also, seeing as where both programs currently stand, those recruits should've followed him to SC.

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    What sanctions? Our 75 are better than your 85.

    Action Figure

  • And I will just say that this scares the heck out of me.

    getmyjive11

  • kitemac said...

    The Freeh Report is way more comprehensive than any report that the NCAA has ever come up with. NCAA piggy backs on most other investigations to find their information. This is no different. Only thing they should have done differently is let it go through the Board of Infractions instead of trying to just make it quick with Emmert.

    It is and it isn't. Freeh never interviewed Curley, Schultz or McQueary among others. Or even some of the victims. The AG requested Free not to do so until the criminal cases were completed. Apparently, Freeh also never interviewed anyone from the Paterno family. Jay was the QB coach. How could you not interview all the coaches? Did he interview the rest of the coaching staff (idk the answer)? Freeh had the benefit of $6.5 million, but there is plenty missing from the report. And I'm not saying the NCAA shouldn't use the report, but separate the facts from the opinions and give PSU a chance to respond to the allegations.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 7/25/2012 at 2:48 PM

    MrWoodson

  • This is gonna make one helluva 30 for 30! coffee

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    RicoX19

  • MrWoodson said...

    It is and it isn't. Freeh never interviewed Curley, Schultz or McQueary among others. Or even some of the victims. The AG requested Free not to do so until litigation is complete. Apparently, Freeh also never interviewed anyone from the Paterno family. Jay was the QB coach. How could you not interview all the coaches? Did he interview the rest of the coaching staff (idk the answer)? Freeh had the benefit of $6.5 million, but there is plenty missing from the report. And I'm not saying the NCAA shouldn't use the report, but separate the facts from the opinions and give PSU a chance to respond to the allegations.

    PSU's BOT are the ones that signed off on the Freeh report. They are the ones that took it as complete. BOT can't fight that the only thing they can fight IMO is that to argue this isn't a NCAA matter.

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    kitemac

  • kitemac said...

    PSU's BOT are the ones that signed off on the Freeh report. They are the ones that took it as complete. BOT can't fight that the only thing they can fight IMO is that to argue this isn't a NCAA matter.

    It may truely be an all or nothing type of fight.

    getmyjive11

  • Interesting situation, BOT will end up accepting the punishment once the NCAA threatens with far worse penalties. Can't see how this ends up well for Penn State.

    rolltide06

  • rolltide06 said...

    Interesting situation, BOT will end up accepting the punishment once the NCAA threatens with far worse penalties. Can't see how this ends up well for Penn State.

    They can at least fire Erickson for being an idiot for completely ignoring proper channels. He should know what his job entails.

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • kitemac said...

    PSU's BOT are the ones that signed off on the Freeh report. They are the ones that took it as complete. BOT can't fight that the only thing they can fight IMO is that to argue this isn't a NCAA matter.

    Ok, if the BOT has accepted all the conclusions in the Freeh Report, fine. I had not seen that. But whatever. It's still no reason to toss out the NCAA's own process. Deliver a NOI to PSU based on the Freeh Report. Give them 90 days to respond. Schedule a hearing so the COI can ask any questions they have and so PSU has a chance to defend themselves against the alleged infractions in the NOI. The COI issues a written ruling in 4-8 weeks. Allow an appeal. What is so difficult about that?

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 7/25/2012 at 2:57 PM

    MrWoodson

  • Not sure how the president wouldn't have the power to do this. If he didn't, then that wouldn't make the agreement void. The BOT may take action against the Pres, but I don't think that would negate the agreement that was signed.

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    Sir Mix A Lot

  • shavisimo2 said...

    They can at least fire Erickson for being an idiot for completely ignoring proper channels. He should know what his job entails.

    So again let me get this right. The BOT had a big disconnect with your last incompetent president and he was fired for that among other things. They hire a new one and there's obviously a disconnect between the BOT and the new president. Or the president is incompetent and just going on his own accord which is the reason why you are in this in the first place. your BOT sound like more of a problem then any solution.

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    kitemac

  • MrWoodson said...

    The NCAA should be embarrassed. It's a joke of an institution. Mark Emmert never should have gone around the rules like some banana republic dictator. And there was no need to. All the NCAA had to do is follow their own rules and procedures. There was no need to turn this into a massive power grab.

    Ok . . . but who's to say that after conducting its own investigation, the NCAA doesn't come at them even harder? Remember, they hit USC with a 2 year bowl ban in part because of how arrogant their AD was acting, making it a point to say that the sanctions were tough BECAUSE of their attitude.

    What do you think will happen to PSU if the NCAA DOES follow its own procedures? Pretty sure the presidents gave Emmert the ability to issue these sanctions, and they'll likely give the infractions committee the same powers, if not more. No one likes being made a fool of, and if you really want to ensure harsher sanctions, by all means, fight it PSU.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • kitemac said...

    So what would you think about a coach leaving a school in early January after only being at the school for a year and telling the kids he recruited to EE not to goto class because then they couldn't follow him across the country?

    I'd think he was offered his dream job and had to make a quick decision that in the end looks like the right one. What about Urban being too stressed to coach at UF but being okay to coach at tOSU? Or a coach floating rumors about taking a job up north to pull more cash out of a school? There's no end to pointing fingers at coaches because it's a rough profession that sometimes calls for some heartless decisions.

    As far as telling any kids that were early entries not to attend class he was responding to their inquiries about eligibility for transfer not specifically eligibility at USC. If that was the truth why didn't more players follow him?

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    Looks like another perfect day.

    Under Review

  • kitemac said...

    So again let me get this right. The BOT had a big disconnect with your last incompetent president and he was fired for that among other things. They hire a new one and there's obviously a disconnect between the BOT and the new president. Or the president is incompetent and just going on his own accord which is the reason why you are in this in the first place. your BOT sound like more of a problem then any solution.

    They are all incompetent. And our new president was not hired. He was appointed that position by the BOT. He was a part of the BOT. He very much is an interim president.

    getmyjive11

  • kitemac said...

    So again let me get this right. The BOT had a big disconnect with your last incompetent president and he was fired for that among other things. They hire a new one and there's obviously a disconnect between the BOT and the new president. Or the president is incompetent and just going on his own accord which is the reason why you are in this in the first place. your BOT sound like more of a problem then any solution.

    It is the football culture ingrained in the BOT. I saw an interview with one of them the other day with Erickson and another person about the Paterno statue. The BOT member hemmed and hawed about about what a big debate it was within the board and they finally, reluctantly agreed it should come down but kind of and not really but if we have to then ok call me maybe.

    ErnieMcCracken

  • kitemac said...

    So again let me get this right. The BOT had a big disconnect with your last incompetent president and he was fired for that among other things. They hire a new one and there's obviously a disconnect between the BOT and the new president. Or the president is incompetent and just going on his own accord which is the reason why you are in this in the first place. your BOT sound like more of a problem then any solution.

    I agree. I want a completely cleaned house. But at this point, Erickson should be fired since that's at least possible. Hopefully the department of education can come in and aay the board has to go entirely.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • FL Buckeye said...

    Not sure how the president wouldn't have the power to do this. If he didn't, then that wouldn't make the agreement void. The BOT may take action against the Pres, but I don't think that would negate the agreement that was signed.

    Supposedly he can't make certain contracts without consent of the board. Who knows what fits under that. And the contract would stick If the ncaa should have known that he didn't have the authority to sign the contract. Who knows what's true and what isn't. I don't think the board will be fighting this, though.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • MrWoodson said...

    The NCAA is full of lawyers. They knew very well this kind of deal probably needed BOT approval. Maybe they were misled by Erickson or maybe they knew full well Erickson still needed formal board approval regardless of the signature (my guess would be the latter), but either way the NCAA is not naive enough to think Erickson had authority to approve $60 million in fines all on his own. Somewhere along the line the BOT needs to sign off on that.

    Or the NCAA's lawyers said this would be just fine and the BOT of PSU are just blowing smoke to make themselves look better.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • FL Buckeye said...

    Not sure how the president wouldn't have the power to do this. If he didn't, then that wouldn't make the agreement void. The BOT may take action against the Pres, but I don't think that would negate the agreement that was signed.

    Yes, it would. The President has certain authority given to him by the school's charter or directly by the BOT itself. Most major decisions, especially those above a certain dollar threshold, require board approval. Your new video boards, for example, probably required board approval. Anything the requires borrowing a large sum of money (which this might) generally requires board approval. Erickson most likely informed Emmert he was going to need to take this to the BOT, so it's very likely tonight's meeting is no surprise at all to the NCAA. I'm sure Erickson and the NCAA expect this to be approved by the BOT (and it probably will). But it's not outside the realm the BOT decides to go in another direction.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 7/25/2012 at 3:15 PM

    MrWoodson

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Or the NCAA's lawyers said this would be just fine and the BOT of PSU are just blowing smoke to make themselves look better.

    My guess (hopefully) they are just posturing to make them look better within the PSU family but looking like clueless, out of touch fools to the rest of the nation which obviously they do not care about.

    ErnieMcCracken

  • Under Review said...

    I'd think he was offered his dream job and had to make a quick decision that in the end looks like the right one. What about Urban being too stressed to coach at UF but being okay to coach at tOSU? Or a coach floating rumors about taking a job up north to pull more cash out of a school? There's no end to pointing fingers at coaches because it's a rough profession that sometimes calls for some heartless decisions.

    As far as telling any kids that were early entries not to attend class he was responding to their inquiries about eligibility for transfer not specifically eligibility at USC. If that was the truth why didn't more players follow him?

    I don't disagree with him going to USC at all. It clearly was a job he would have rather had. I don't blame him for that at all. The telling kids that are already on UTs campus a couple days before school starts to not go to class and follow him to USC which would make UTs class even worse than it already was going to be since Kiffin left. When our coordinators leave usually they don't try and recruit the players they just recruited for us.

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    kitemac