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ramssuperbowl99 said...
Wikipedia's error rate is similar to most major encyclopedias. But if that bothers you, you can use the sources at the bottom of the page.
All your ancestors knew english when they came, or, in the case of say Germans, had access to German newspapers and German was even spoken in public schools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language_in_the_United_States#German_as_the_official_US_language_mythSo that's complete BS.
They should be recognized as the result of a broken illegal immigration system and given amnesty as part of an overhaul of the US immigration system.
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justinboze
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justinboze said...
He brings up many good points and touched on what I was meaning earlier. We have tons of immigrants from all over the world but the migration push from Mexico brings us nothing but an unskilled and uneducated population increase. I read your Wikipedia link and there were just as many negatives as positives, if not more. Like where households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.
But I find it funny that you called dude a racist because he said he didn't want to live in a Hispanic culture. I don't either and that is not racist. That is me preferring an American culture that revolves around American ideas.
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justinboze said...
And I also find it strange how many people, yourself included, don't differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants. There is a huge difference. It's an easy deflection to just play your race card but the fact is that most people have no problem with immigration. It's the knowingly illegal variety that irks people. Why even have laws if they aren't going to be enforced?
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
The general consensus is that the positives outweigh the negatives, though I appreciate you reading the think.
As for the $2700 per illegal household, let's put that in perspective. This past year, in total, we had a deficit of $1.1 trillion spread over 114.8 million households, for an average deficit per household of about $9500. Illegal aliens, on average, are doing nearly $7000/household better than other Americans.
"That is me preferring an American culture that revolves around American ideas "
This sentence is nonsense. The second a hispanic, or asian person moves to america, they become a part of American culture. The culture of the illegal immigrants is no more or less american than yours.
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justinboze said...
Actually most sources in your Wikipedia link were very old and that stat was based on 2002 numbers. I just paraphrased one to give you an example. I doubt any info in that article is relevant today, positive or negative.
Your 2nd part is nonsense. If I moved to Germany then of course I would become part of the German culture. If me and 11 million of my closest friends moved to Germany then we would be implementing our American culture onto the German society. However, I doubt that the Germans would take our side and start forcing everyone to adapt to us rather then us adapting to them.
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
America has no foundational culture. No one was 'here first' to establish their culture (except for Native Americans, but I'm sure you don't consider NA culture "American" anyway). There is no state language, culture, none of that.
The de facto culture of America is just the sum of the cultures of the people who make it up. Remember the whole 'melting pot' they repeated ad nauseam in high school? That.
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
The general consensus is that the positives outweigh the negatives, though I appreciate you reading the think.
As for the $2700 per illegal household, let's put that in perspective. This past year, in total, we had a deficit of $1.1 trillion spread over 114.8 million households, for an average deficit per household of about $9500. Illegal aliens, on average, are doing nearly $7000/household better than other Americans.
"That is me preferring an American culture that revolves around American ideas "
This sentence is nonsense. The second a hispanic, or asian person moves to america, they become a part of American culture. The culture of the illegal immigrants is no more or less american than yours.
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
Jefferson's quote wasn't limited to American citizens.
But, if you want, I will instead quote the Declaration of Independence, which (obviously) was written well before the existence of America.
"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
Jefferson is quite clear - if there is a crappy law, it is up to anyone who is able to destroy it or reshape it. The US immigration system is a terrible, terrible legal system, and I don't fault the people trying to bring that failure to light one bit.
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TroyTide said...
Your last paragraph is just wrong. There is a mainstream American, Western culture, it is different than Chinese, or Mexican culture for instance. To say that simply by being present on our soil makes their culture part of ours is to say we don't have a culture or that it doesn't matter. Somehow, not just in this country, but in all of Western Civilization people have been convinced that we don't have a culture, but all other peoples do. Nonsense.
Multiculturalism, as it is being called today, is in fact nothing more than the watering down of American or Western culture. It is saying that all other cultures deserve a place in our society, except our own. That our culture must consist of elements of all the others, while all the other cultures remain in tact. It's ridiculous, Western Society is the first society in history in which it's people have had to be convinced that they in fact have some to offer and be proud of. We are committing cultural suicide, it's insane!
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TroyTide said...
The Declaration of Independence wasn't well before the beginning of America, it was the beginning of America.
And he was referring to overthrowing oppressive unresponsive governments, not advocating disobeying laws you don't like, that would be called anarchy. And he certainly wasn't advocating for the citizens of another country to disobey or overthrow the government of another.
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
False. Multiculturalism says that all cultures, Hispanic, Asian, whatever are equal in America. You might think that it's excluding yours, but instead it is putting everyone's culture on the same footing. You have confused a war on your culture with not getting exclusive treatment.
By the way, "mainstream American" culture is nothing more than a giant cluster**** of European cultures mixed in with a little bit of modernization. Pizza is from Italy, but is the most 'American' food around. Potatoes, another 'American' staple, were brought over from Europe. How about cajun food - pretty American right? It's a blend of spanish, hispanic, and french cuisine. Hell, even rock n' roll was brought over here from England by the Beatles.
The only thing that is unique about American culture is that it successfully blended those European elements.
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
Are you kidding? The Declaration of Independence was an act of war. America would have still been a colony of the British at that point. The Constitution, which actually established the US, didn't come for more than a decade later.
Jefferson is advocating for exactly what he says. If a law violates human rights, it needs to be overturned by anyone capable.
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TroyTide said...
Okay well that blend is our culture then. All cultures are a blend of others, yet that doesn't make their existence any less so.
As for you first paragraph. To say that other cultures are equal to your own in your own country si to say your culture doesn't matter.
Before I get called racist again let me say that culture and race are not necessarily intertwined.
Having said that all cultures are not equal, hence why some come to dominate others. You can't seriously believe that Islamic culture is on par with Western Culture when standard of living in the West and treatment of its people is far greater than that of Islam. Islam is just an example here btw. Also lets not ignore the fact that some cultures contribute far more to the world than others.
I say all that to say that if a people don't believe their own culture to be superior in their own land, that is a people that will not be around long and will eventually be subsumed by other cultures.
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
"As for you first paragraph. To say that other cultures are equal to your own in your own country si to say your culture doesn't matter. "
No, that's to say your culture matters just as much as others. That's what the word equal means....
"Having said that all cultures are not equal, hence why some come to dominate others. You can't seriously believe that Islamic culture is on par with Western Culture when standard of living in the West and treatment of its people is far greater than that of Islam. Islam is just an example here btw. Also lets not ignore the fact that some cultures contribute far more to the world than others."
Islamic culture is a great example. It violates human rights, so no I don't think all cultures are equal. The Middle Eastern culture is, on a good day, sexist. On a bad day it's barbaric. That's why you see European countries deporting radical Muslim leaders.
However, none of those problems are located in Hispanic culture, so the whole point is moot. Their culture isn't any worse or better than ours (I still, of course, have no idea what 'American' culture actually is).
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ramssuperbowl99 said...
"As for you first paragraph. To say that other cultures are equal to your own in your own country si to say your culture doesn't matter. "
No, that's to say your culture matters just as much as others. That's what the word equal means....
"Having said that all cultures are not equal, hence why some come to dominate others. You can't seriously believe that Islamic culture is on par with Western Culture when standard of living in the West and treatment of its people is far greater than that of Islam. Islam is just an example here btw. Also lets not ignore the fact that some cultures contribute far more to the world than others."
Islamic culture is a great example. It violates human rights, so no I don't think all cultures are equal. The Middle Eastern culture is, on a good day, sexist. On a bad day it's barbaric. That's why you see European countries deporting radical Muslim leaders.
However, none of those problems are located in Hispanic culture, so the whole point is moot. Their culture isn't any worse or better than ours (I still, of course, have no idea what 'American' culture actually is).
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TroyTide said...
It doesn't matter if Hispanic culture has those problems or not. It is still another culture and is not our own. If Hispanics want to move here and blend into our society then great I am all for it, but if they want to make America more like where they came from that is a problem.
This is not a Hispanic Country...yet... and we have a different way life and most of us would rather keep it that way, and rightfully so. Hell Mexico has laws preventing mass migration from other countries because they feel the same way.
You are going in circles with this argument, as you again question the existence of American culture which leads us right back to saying that, that is saying our culture doesn't matter.
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TroyTide said...
Also Europe is getting all kinds of ate up with Islam. Many countries over there are looking at Islamic majorities or pluralities within a century. It's a really sad thing to see, especially as their leaders are cheer-leading the whole thing in the name of multiculturalism. Nationalism is quickly on the rise in Europe though so the situation may change. The fact is it is damn near impossible to assimilate Muslims, lol. We have it much easier than they do.
The Future of the Global Muslim Population - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
A new Pew Forum report on the size, distribution and growth of the global Muslim population finds that the world’s Muslim population is expected to increase by about 35% in the next 20 years, but it is expected to grow at a slower pace in the next two decades than it did in the previous two decades.
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Immigration question.