The Blue Board

I like Pac, but he's not the best rapper ever. Him and Biggie probably had the biggest influence on rap and most artists in the genre today would say that they listened to them growing up. There are plenty of artists with much better lyrical abilities, though. They've all been stated itt.

The guy I saw at my High School talent show to begin with.

+1 for Rakim. I personally never got the whole Tupac craze. I never thought he was good at all. I like Biggie alot more. Nas, is a lyrical beast. Most of the Wu-Tang. Jay-Z's older stuff. I always thought Canibus had ill lyrics and was clever as hell. Big Pun dtopped some tight shit back in the day. KRS One was the king of battle mcing. Actually, I think that kid Eyedea was the most raw battle mc ever. Even though, I can't stand him, Eminem is on another level lyrically. I think there's a bunch of MC's better then Tupac. He was way overrated imo.

White people don't understand 2pac.

You believe that.

Yes 2pac is probably the best ever

Lol. Actually people from Baltimore don't understand Tupac. When he lived in BMore he went to the School of Arts and wore tu-tu's and did balay dancing. Then a few years later he's claiming to be "Thug Life" and some kind of gangster who reps NY, Baltimore, Cali. Lol. Come on man!!!

Dude's an entertainer, not a gangster which is cool, but why pretend to be something you're not? Especially when he'd claim to "keep it real" in every one of his songs. Just because you get shot doesn't mean you're a thug. People who know about where he stayed at know he's fake. White and black. I guess he sold you though so his hustle wasn't too bad.

You're right 2PAC is the greatest actor to ever live.

That's about right.

He definitely wasn't "Thug Life." I know that much. Lol. He started acting ghetto after he had millions. What a fraud. I respect his hustle though. He got your money.

Great discussion in this thread until the last 10 or so posts.

To me Tupac is the most overrated rapper of all time. He was good and getting better when he died but he never reached the top of his game. Makaveli was his best lyrical album and he would've continued to grow from there. It took him about 10 albums worth of material to reach that point while it took Biggie only 2 albums to clearly outclass him a s pure lyricist. I love the personna of Tupac and the struggle within him that he dealt with(i sincerely believe he had what people now would call a mental illness with his 2 entirely different personalities). I completely understand why he is revered(he is the prototypical modern black man) but that doesn't mean he was great as a rapper. It just means he is one of many humans that is put on a higher pedestal than their work deserves.

My top 5 pure lyricists, not rappers and influence(Rakim and Jay Z would top that list)

1 Biggie-complete package
2 Nas-complete package with one caveat, mainstream ability. He could never crossover even though he tried. Best flow of all time
3 Rakim-ahead of his time and was just a juggernaught
4 Eminem-Only when he really wants to be though. When he's focused and really on, there has never been a better technician than him. His ability to rhyme multiple syllables within the same pattern has never been equaled. He can just do things others can't. (Take a long, hard listen to "Lose Yourself" and break the song down into the different cadences and within every one, every bar rhymes word for word with conjuctions and filler words being the only exceptions)
5 Andre 3000-as an avid Outkast fan that has listened to every album countless times, it's amazing how consistently great he's been over his career. His delivery has gotten much smoother and faster but even on their debut he was dropping gems. Atliens is the most slept on of the Outkast albums but it's really introspective and deep inside the mind of the 2. Really some deep, dark lyrics on that album from Andre. Then his opus on Aquemini. That's when people really stood up and took notice of the unreal talent he has. He was perfect on that album.

Earlier someone mentioned the greatest verse of all time and there are many great ones that I can sit back and just vibe to but imo the greatest and just knocking verse of all time is easy, Cappadonna on "Winter Warz". He murdered that record. Anyone that hasn't heard it or just don't remember, google it. Made the Don't be Menace soundtrack worth the money on it's on.

Look no one here is saying he's not good. Just not the GOAT

I didn't say he was. But, pointing out lyrics isn't the way to go about it with rappers like Pac or a Chuck D.

Their rap careers were mainly platforms to get out political messages. NWA and Ice T wanted to point the finger at the police, etc.