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Johnny Football #2 on ESPN's Hiesman Watch

  • stir8ag said...

    Manziel has faced 4 defenses ranked in the top 15 or higher, at the time he played them.

    LSU, Bama and Florida are about as good as it gets on defense.

    How many defenses has Mariota faced/ beat that rank in the top 20? - serious question because i dont know, but my assumption is that the number is less than what Manziel has faced.

    Hard to measure. The best duos in CFB for WRs are at OrSu and USC. So defenses take a hit with that. The Pac-12 has more sacks per team (defensively) than any conference. Add in defensive numbers take a hit with Oregon and Arizona being 2 top 8 offenses in the country. Plus the possible #1 QB to be drafted in Barkely... It's hard to have an elite defense in the Pac-12 (statistically).

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    skatebeanz

  • Dutch2 said...

    Why isn't Jarvis Jones on the list?

    He doesn't play for ND.

    MrWoodson ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    He doesn't play for ND.

    Good point. Teo is overrated.

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    DutchUGA ●

  • skatebeanz said...

    TAM has far better WRs. Not even kidding. Also has the ~best set of tackles in the country.

    How is the system help? I mean it isn't really a QB friendly system since he has the best stats of any QB in this system and still has lesser Bulk numbers.

    He is just really good and efficient.

    Is this a joke?

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    USMCAG ●

  • Dutch2 said...

    Good point. Teo is overrated.

    He's fun to watch, but I agree.

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG ●

  • skatebeanz said...

    TAM has far better WRs. Not even kidding. Also has the ~best set of tackles in the country.

    How is the system help? I mean it isn't really a QB friendly system since he has the best stats of any QB in this system and still has lesser Bulk numbers.

    He is just really good and efficient.

    I said Mariota had advantages versus Klein not Manziel. Manziel and Mariota are close IMO, but Manziel has played against much better defenses and for that reason I give him the nod over Mariota. The best defense Oregon has faced probably is USC's and even USC's coaches have said it isn't very good this year (Monte Kiffin called it "totally broken").

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 11/13/2012 at 12:32 PM

    MrWoodson ●

  • Dutch2 said...

    Good point. Teo is overrated.

    Teo is overrated. I would put Clowney and Jones ahead of him, but Teo has always been a bit overhyped going all the way back to recruiting rankings. And he plays for ND which happens to be undefeated this year. You can't fight the system.

    MrWoodson ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    Teo is overrated. I would put Clowney and Jones ahead of him, but Teo has always been a bit overhyped going all the way back to recruiting rankings. And he plays for ND which happens to be undefeated this year. You can't fight the system.

    He has a great story and he is a great player. I just don't think he should be in the Heisman talk.

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    USMCAG ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    I said Mariota had advantages versus Klein not Manziel. Manziel and Mariota are close IMO, but Manziel has played against much better defenses and for that reason I give him the nod over Mariota. The best defense Oregon has faced probably is USC's and even USC's coaches have said it isn't very good this year (Monte Kiffin called it "totally broken").

    Ah. Well, that coudl be one reason Mariota is superior statistically than Manziel too. Even when Johnny played his worse opponents he wasn't as good as Mariota.

    Mariota's QBR vs USC is higher than any game Manziel has played IIRC.

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    skatebeanz

  • USMCAG said...

    Is this a joke?

    How is a joke? Thomas's best season in Oregon was 20 QBR less than Mariota. Masoli was even less than that. They are not Leach type systems.

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    skatebeanz

  • Problem with mariotta is the west coast thing. Hardly ever get to see him play. No exposure.

    Compare that to manziel playing in the second highest rated game of the year.

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    Status ●

  • skatebeanz said...

    How is a joke? Thomas's best season in Oregon was 20 QBR less than Mariota. Masoli was even less than that. They are not Leach type systems.

    I meant about us having better Wr's.

    This post was edited by USMCAG on 11/13/2012 at 12:54 PM

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    USMCAG ●

  • skatebeanz said...

    Ah. Well, that coudl be one reason Mariota is superior statistically than Manziel too. Even when Johnny played his worse opponents he wasn't as good as Mariota.

    Mariota's QBR vs USC is higher than any game Manziel has played IIRC.

    USC's defense stinks. And it's probably the best defense Mariota has faced. If Mariota put up those numbers against Bama and UF and LSU and even Mississippi State, I would agree with you. But he didn't. Schedule makes a difference and Mariota has played against much weaker defenses than Manziel.

    MrWoodson ●

  • USMCAG said...

    He has a great story and he is a great player. I just don't think he should be in the Heisman talk.

    He won't win, but he will be in NYC. Being a star player on a high profile team that is undefeated gets you into the conversation. That's how the Heisman thing works these days. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.

    MrWoodson ●

  • Status said...

    Problem with mariotta is the west coast thing. Hardly ever get to see him play. No exposure.

    Compare that to manziel playing in the second highest rated game of the year.

    That's way overblown. USC is on the West Coast and has as many Heisman's as anyone. And it's not as if Oregon lacks for media exposure. Mariota is in the conversation, but people have him behind Klein and Manziel. It's reasonable given how each has performed, who they have played against and what talent they have around them. Klein has done as much as Mariota with far less talent around him. And Manziel has played against much better defenses. It's not a West Coast thing.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 11/13/2012 at 1:46 PM

    MrWoodson ●

  • skatebeanz said...

    Hard to measure. The best duos in CFB for WRs are at OrSu and USC. So defenses take a hit with that. The Pac-12 has more sacks per team (defensively) than any conference. Add in defensive numbers take a hit with Oregon and Arizona being 2 top 8 offenses in the country. Plus the possible #1 QB to be drafted in Barkely... It's hard to have an elite defense in the Pac-12 (statistically).

    Hard to get to a hard conclusion on this but I dont buy the argument that the offenses in the conference are so good that it makes the defenses look terrible.

    USC and Stanford have both, relatively recently, had Elite defenses and defensive stats so it is possible to have great defensive teams in the conference. Same argument that the Big 12 folks try to make although teams like Nebraska, (09,2010) , OU at different times over the past decade and Texas have all had statistically great defenses, despite playing in an offensive league with a ton of offensive talent.

    You could flip the argument and say that in the SEC, most teams A&M plays try to run the ball and eat time off the clock to reduce the number of opportunities for the A&M offense to score.

    stir8ag

  • stir8ag said...

    Hard to get to a hard conclusion on this but I dont buy the argument that the offenses in the conference are so good that it makes the defenses look terrible.

    USC and Stanford have both, relatively recently, had Elite defenses and defensive stats so it is possible to have great defensive teams in the conference. Same argument that the Big 12 folks try to make although teams like Nebraska, (09,2010) , OU at different times over the past decade and Texas have all had statistically great defenses, despite playing in an offensive league with a ton of offensive talent.

    You could flip the argument and say that in the SEC, most teams A&M plays try to run the ball and eat time off the clock to reduce the number of opportunities for the A&M offense to score.

    USC did that too. Oregon only had 1 more possession than TAM did when they played USC. The difference is Oregon scored faster to give themselves more chance(s). Oregon had 13 possessions TAM had 12.

    It isn't hard to say that.

    Last year Pac-12 had 2 of the top 3 OTs taken. They had the #1 OG taken, #1 QB Taken, #4 QB taken, #1 TE taken, and #7 QB taken. That means they had the #1 OT, #1 QB, #1 OG, and #1 TE in the draft. That is wayyyy more then the SEC has pushed out.as far back as I can remember.

    Pac-12 had 3 QBs taken in the first 4 rounds. That doesn't count a decent college QB in Darron Thomas that also beat up on the defenses.

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    skatebeanz

  • USMCAG said...

    I meant about us having better Wr's.

    I'd trade your WRs for ours.

    Our #2 is a white walk on who is slow. Huff is undersized and no Oregon WR is projected to be drafted unlike TAMs.

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    skatebeanz

  • MrWoodson said...

    That's way overblown. USC is on the West Coast and has as many Heisman's as anyone. And it's not as if Oregon lacks for media exposure. Mariota is in the conversation, but people have him behind Klein and Manziel. It's reasonable given how each has performed, who they have played against and what talent they have around them. Klein has done as much as Mariota with far less talent around him. And Manziel has played against much better defenses. It's not a West Coast thing.

    Except Manziel when he plays crap teams still hasn't done as well as Mariota.

    When Mariota played Cal (an FBC team in a BCS conference with an NFL DC with 4 and 5* athletes) he had a better QBR than when Manziel played South Carolina State (an FCS team) or any team for that matter.

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    skatebeanz

  • One spot too low.

    rolltide06 ●

  • skatebeanz said...

    Except Manziel when he plays crap teams still hasn't done as well as Mariota.

    When Mariota played Cal (an FBC team in a BCS conference with an NFL DC with 4 and 5* athletes) he had a better QBR than when Manziel played South Carolina State (an FCS team) or any team for that matter.

    Oregon would be good without Mariota, A&M wouldn't without Manziel.

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    USMCAG ●

  • USMCAG said...

    Oregon would be good without Mariota, A&M wouldn't without Manziel.

    Oregon lost 2 games with their best statistical QB of all time in Thomas. They are undefeated with Mariota and on pace to score more points than any team playing 13 or 14 games while resting starters in the 4th QTR (like against Cal they did it with 12:00 min to go).

    We have no idea what they will be without Manziel we haven't seen it.

    Besides the award isn't who does more for their team. Ingram won it and had a backup who was better than him.

    Mariota is statistically better than Manziel when they play the same level competition and more efficient.

    Let's not over hype Johnny. He had 0 TDs and 3 INTs playing LSU. Last year Thomas did better than that against LSU and everyone will tell you Mariota is far better. In fact a Guy who coached the best prospect since John Elway said this today in a tele-conference.

    Is Marcus Mariota better than Darron Thomas? Shaw: "I don’t think there is any question."

    So Thomas did better than Manziel; against LSU and Mariota is better than Thomas to everyone.

    Skill set and stat wise Mariota is superior.

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    skatebeanz

  • Skill set and stat wise Mariota is superior.

    No, no he's not.

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    USMCAG ●

  • USMCAG said...

    No, no he's not.

    huh

    He has equal or better stats and probably played 10 less quarters.

    ducklefty

  • USMCAG said...

    No, no he's not.

    How? He is just as fast, bigger, stronger, and has a stronger arm. Manziel floats balls. More accurate, etc...

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    skatebeanz

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