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Justin Verlander

  • Rocket_Play said...

    What is the national view of JV? Is he the best pitcher in MLB? If he is, is he the best pitcher since _______ ?

    Nolan Ryan, at least.

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    ScoutExile

  • IrishImpact said...

    Name a better pitcher that has come along that is better than Verlander in this era. The guy is more consistent than any other pitcher in baseball over the last 5 seasons.

    An era is more than 5 years...Go 15 years, and you can name plenty.

    JV is the best now (by far)...Just leave it at that.

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    mpcoan

  • IrishImpact said...

    Name a better pitcher that has come along that is better than Verlander in this era. The guy is more consistent than any other pitcher in baseball over the last 5 seasons.

    He went 11-17 with a near 5 era and less than 2/1 K/BB ratio in 2008. That is within your period.

    Last season, easily Verlander's best, he was behind both Halladay and Sabathia in the most important advanced metrics. 2010, behind Lee, Halladay and Ubaldo. 2009 he was only behind Greinke, making that his best season.

    So, Halladay probably has been better the past 5 years. Koufax, this was not a question. He was the best of his generation and if it weren't for injury that ended his career right in it's prime (his final season numbers are 27-9 with a 1.73 era with 27 complete games and 317 strikeouts), his numbers would have been even more incredible.

    Now, after this season, those numbers change and JV will look much better, but the comparison is still way premature.

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • mpcoan said...

    An era is more than 5 years...Go 15 years, and you can name plenty.

    JV is the best now (by far)...Just leave it at that.

    This. Much more succinct than my response.

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • mpcoan said...

    An era is more than 5 years...Go 15 years, and you can name plenty.

    JV is the best now (by far)...Just leave it at that.

    Fine, name them.

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    ScoutExile

  • shavisimo2 said...

    This. Much more succinct than my response.

    Name them.

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    ScoutExile

  • ScoutExile said...

    Fine, name them.

    Gave you a DV by accident when trying to hit quote!

    But, Johnson, Maddux, Halladay, Clemens, maybe Pedro. And these are just off the top of my head.

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    shavisimo2

  • ScoutExile said...

    Fine, name them.

    Last 15 years? Shavi named most of the ones I was thinking. Let JV do it for 10 years. I didn't insult him. I said he was the best now.

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    mpcoan

  • mpcoan said...

    Last 15 years? Shavi named most of the ones I was thinking. Let JV do it for 10 years. I didn't insult him. I said he was the best now.

    Yep. Not an insult, just saying some longevity and then I will consider him one of the greats. At this point, Koufax is premature. How that's insulting to him, I have no idea.

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    shavisimo2

  • shavisimo2 said...

    Gave you a DV by accident when trying to hit quote!

    But, Johnson, Maddux, Halladay, Clemens, maybe Pedro. And these are just off the top of my head.

    Verlander is either right up there with those pitchers or better than them.

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    Gringo Mafia Sergeant at Arms - 5 time POTW

    IrishImpact

  • IrishImpact said...

    Verlander is either right up there with those pitchers or better than them.

    That's cute. Wrong, but cute. He could be, but he is not there yet.

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • IrishImpact said...

    Verlander is either right up there with those pitchers or better than them.

    Are you censored serious? No way. Maddux and Clemens are the best righties of the last few decades. Johnson was the best power pitcher outside of Nolan Ryan.

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    mpcoan

  • shavisimo2 said...

    That's cute. Wrong, but cute. He could be, but he is not there yet.

    Nah I think he is. Dominant is the word that comes to mind when I think of Verlander. None of those guys were as dominant more CONSISTENTLY than Verlander right now. With the exception of maybe Clemens (in his prime) Halladay comes and goes.

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    Gringo Mafia Sergeant at Arms - 5 time POTW

    IrishImpact

  • IrishImpact said...

    Nah I think he is. Dominant is the word that comes to mind when I think of Verlander. None of those guys were as dominant more CONSISTENTLY than Verlander right now. With the exception of maybe Clemens (in his prime) Halladay comes and goes.

    Did you start watching baseball 3 years ago?

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    shavisimo2

  • shavisimo2 said...

    Did you start watching baseball 3 years ago?

    Early 90's give or take...

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    Gringo Mafia Sergeant at Arms - 5 time POTW

    IrishImpact

  • I have to agree with IrishImpact on this one. If you are talking pure stuff and knowing how to pitch, JV is as good as all those guys. Barring injury he should easily put up the numbers to at least match those guys in the next few years.

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    WillyWolverine

  • Maize&Blue said...

    I have to agree with IrishImpact on this one. If you are talking pure stuff and knowing how to pitch, JV is as good as all those guys. Barring injury he should easily put up the numbers to at least match those guys in the next few years.

    Exactly. 3-4 years ago you couldn't put him in the same sentence as those guys, but I think it's safe to now.

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    Gringo Mafia Sergeant at Arms - 5 time POTW

    IrishImpact

  • mpcoan said...

    Are you censored serious? No way. Maddux and Clemens are the best righties of the last few decades. Johnson was the best power pitcher outside of Nolan Ryan.

    Johnson was a lefty, and had the dubious honor of leading the league in hit batters. That's why Verlander, with his combination of overwhelming power and control, is more comparable to Nolan Ryan.

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    ScoutExile

  • ScoutExile said...

    Johnson was a lefty, and had the dubious honor of leading the league in hit batters. That's why Verlander, with his combination of overwhelming power and control, is more comparable to Nolan Ryan.

    I know he was a lefty. His longevity and overall stats still put him ahead of JV. Still not sure how that's an insult.

    Johnson was 2nd all time in strikeouts, won 5 Cy Youngs, and had a no hitter and perfect game. Until he does it for years, it's unfair to compare JV to him.

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    mpcoan

  • Ok. I'm obviously not going to convince any of you, so I'll leave it at this. IMO, thinking Verlander compares to any of those guys, at this point, is premature and an incredibly homer viewpoint. He's had exactly 3 good seasons in his career. Last year, he was behind both Halladay and Sabathia in most advanced metrics, but, yes, he was still the best pitcher in baseball. It just wasn't as big of a gap as Tigers fans like to think. This year, he's likely to be the best again. But to say he's as good or better than many of the greats of all time, is simply premature. He's not Koufax or Johnson or Clemens or any other name yet. He's a great pitcher. Come talk to me in 2015 and he'll likely compare well to those guys. Right now, he simply does not.

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

  • Yes, JV is a freak. His control is...... out of control? He is the only pitcher that when he pitches I prefer to watch our pitching over hitting. His body of work isn't greater than Roy or Pedro..... But his body of work is trending that way...

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    "As far as the downvotes. It's a gnat biting an lion" -- A member of tRCMB Justice League, taking the internet WAY WAY too seriously.

    Rocket_Play ●

  • im not a red sox fan, but he's not better than Pedro either. Pedro's numbers were better and they were during the steroid era. No comparison.

    chasfcd11

  • Thank you San Diego for passing on Verlander back in 2005.

    One of my favorite pitchers since he's been in the big leagues.

    zabba

  • shavisimo2 said...

    That's cute. Wrong, but cute. He could be, but he is not there yet.

    He's not there yet? he won MVP and CY Young last season and this season he is dominating again. I'd say he's already there and the best pitcher in baseball today. Last 5 years no but last season and this one so far? Absolutely.

    Being called a sunshine blower is not insulting to me and I'm proud to be one.

    SpartyFever

  • SpartyFever said...

    He's not there yet? he won MVP and CY Young last season and this season he is dominating again. I'd say he's already there and the best pitcher in baseball today. Last 5 years no but last season and this one so far? Absolutely.

    Verlander is right up there with Clemens and Randy Johnson because of 1 great year and one great April and half of May? You realize that was what I was responding to, right?

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    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2

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