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Klein and Manziel vs. BCS teams with winning records

  • Klein:
    7-1 record
    25 total TDs
    6 Turnovers

    Manziel:
    2-2 record
    5 total TDs
    5 Turnovers

    Edit: These are only the stats against winning teams from BCS conferences, so it doesn't include Manziel's games vs. La Tech or Sam Houston State.

    Discuss. . .

    This post has been edited 4 times, most recently by thejumper5 on 12/2/2012 at 12:40 AM

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    thejumper5

  • thejumper5 said...

    Discuss. . .

    nono

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    wps88 ●

  • thejumper5 said...

    Klein:
    7-1 record
    25 total TDs
    6 Turnovers

    Manziel:
    2-2 record
    5 total TDs
    5 Turnovers

    Discuss. . .

    I see 8 touchdowns for Manziel.

    Edit: actually 10 and a 3-2 record.

    This post was edited by BamaLivesFootba on 12/2/2012 at 12:28 AM

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • 75% of those teams for Klein are 7-5 too. Just to add some context.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    I see 8 touchdowns for Manziel.

    Edit: actually 10 and a 3-2 record.

    Yeah, I was just passing the stat along that I read on a Tweet from the Big XII. Now that I check the stats myself, it isn't close to being right. I'll get the right stats and fix the OP.

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    thejumper5

  • thejumper5 said...

    Yeah, I was just passing the stat along that I read on a Tweet from the Big XII. Now that I check the stats myself, it isn't close to being right. I'll get the right stats and fix the OP.

    Klein's are still better, just not as big as the original thought had looked. I didn't know it, but after seeing how much of those teams are 7-5, I'm not as impressed as originally has thought.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • Double checked. These are only their numbers vs. winning teams from BCS conferences, so it doesn't include Manziel's stats vs. La Tech or Sam Houston.

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    thejumper5

  • thejumper5 said...

    Double checked. These are only their numbers vs. winning teams from BCS conferences, so it doesn't include Manziel's stats vs. La Tech or Sam Houston.

    Just about to tell you that after I saw the tweet.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • hmmmm...

    interesting stat - T'eo, Notre Dame: 12-0

    coffee

    This post was edited by ifinnen on 12/2/2012 at 12:43 AM

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    ifinnen

  • but actually, off of just production on the field...I think the clear winner is Manziel

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    ifinnen

  • Eye test for me has:

    1)Manziel
    2)Klein
    3)Lee

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • Put up their stats vs TOP 10 teams ... Thanks ...

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    LaBornNRaised

  • ifinnen said...

    but actually, off of just production on the field...I think the clear winner is Manziel

    I think if I had a vote, I would be torn between Klein and Manziel. Here are some tempo free numbers:

    Yards per carry--
    Klein: 4.8
    Manziel: 6.4

    Yards per pass attempt--
    Klein: 9.15
    Manziel: 8.55

    Rush attempts per touchdown:
    Klein: 8.82
    Manziel: 9.68

    Pass Attempts per touchdown:
    Klein: 16.8
    Manziel: 16.67

    I think I give Manziel the slight edge, but it's very close between the two.

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    thejumper5

  • thejumper5 said...

    Klein: 7-1 record 25 total TDs 6 Turnovers

    Manziel: 2-2 record 5 total TDs 5 Turnovers

    Edit: These are only the stats against winning teams from BCS conferences, so it doesn't include Manziel's games vs. La Tech or Sam Houston State.

    Discuss. . .

    Here is the rest of the story. Nice of ABC to skew the numbers to fit their agenda.

    attachment
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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • LaBornNRaised said...

    Put up their stats vs TOP 10 teams ... Thanks ...

    Don't forget about Klein's three INT's against baylor, who had the worst defense in FBS at the time.

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • 1) Klein
    2) Manziel
    3) Lee

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • Aussie

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    1) Manziel 2) Ball 3) Teo

    FIFY

    signature image signature image signature image

    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • thejumper5 said...

    I think if I had a vote, I would be torn between Klein and Manziel. Here are some tempo free numbers:

    Yards per carry-- Klein: 4.8 Manziel: 6.4

    Yards per pass attempt-- Klein: 9.15 Manziel: 8.55

    Rush attempts per touchdown: Klein: 8.82 Manziel: 9.68

    Pass Attempts per touchdown: Klein: 16.8 Manziel: 16.67

    I think I give Manziel the slight edge, but it's very close between the two.

    My first point would be-

    -Put Manziel in the Big 12 instead of SEC and ask yourself, would his numbers look better or worse than they do now?
    I think we can agree he would have put up better numbers in the big 12 because there are zero elite defenses this year.

    -Put Klein in the SEC. Does his numbers look better or worse than they do now?
    I'm going to say that there is no way he looks better in the SEC and he probably looks significantly worse.

    My Second point, after considering the caliber of defense that both QB's played against, would be to compare the final yardage totals over 12 games-

    Manziel- total offense: 4600yds

    Klein- total offense: 3390yds

    stir8ag

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    75% of those teams for Klein are 7-5 too. Just to add some context.

    Not to mention that the Big12 beat absolutely no one in their OOC schedule. How many of those 7-5's become 6-6 if they would have played someone?

    Plus, I don't think anyone is accounting for Klein getting to play 9 Big12 defenses.

    BetterOff ●

  • LaBornNRaised said...

    Put up their stats vs TOP 10 teams ... Thanks ...

    Klein's are impressive!

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    0 0 0

    BetterOff ●

  • The numbers need perspective...Record and total defense rank of those teams:

    KSU BCS opponents with winning record total defense ranking nationally:

    Miami(7-5) 117th
    Oklahoma(10-2) 44th
    West Virginia(7-5) 107th
    Texas Tech(7-5) 39th
    Oklahoma St(7-5) 82nd
    Texas Christian(7-5) 18th
    Baylor(7-5) 119th
    Texas(8-4) 75th

    Texas A&M BCS opponents with winning record total defense ranking:

    Florida(11-1) 5th
    LSU(10-2) 8th
    Alabama(12-1) 1st
    Miss State(8-4) 58th

    Klein faced 3 defenses ranked in the top 74 defense nationally. One is Texas Tech which is not as advertised. I will explain at the end of the post.

    The best defense Klein faced was TCU(18th)...his numbers were:

    12/21 145 yards 0 TDs 1 INT 15 rushes for 50 yards and 2 TDs

    These were his numbers against the 2nd best defense he faced(Oklahoma - 44th):

    13/21 149 0 TDs 0 INTs 17 rushes 79 yards 1 TD

    I'm sorry but Texas Tech's defense is not as advertised. Midway through the season, they were ranked 1st nationally and they shut down WVU so we al thought it might be legit. Well, it wasn't. They got there by playing NW State, Texas State, New Mexico, and Iowa State to open the season. 7 of the final 8 opponents went on to score 34 or more points...4 went for 50+.They ended the season giving 31.8 PPG which ranks 93rd nationally so I have no idea how they have a defense ranked 39th nationally in total defense.

    In the end, posting numbers that Klein put up against some of the worst defenses in the national and comparing them to Manziel's numbers against some of the strongest defenses nationally is simply idiotic. I like Klein and he is a really good player on a really good team. Manziel is simply incredible.

    bamabum5

  • bamabum5 said...

    The numbers need perspective...Record and total defense rank of those teams:

    KSU BCS opponents with winning record total defense ranking nationally:

    Miami(7-5) 117th Oklahoma(10-2) 44th West Virginia(7-5) 107th Texas Tech(7-5) 39th Oklahoma St(7-5) 82nd Texas Christian(7-5) 18th Baylor(7-5) 119th Texas(8-4) 75th

    Texas A&M BCS opponents with winning record total defense ranking:

    Florida(11-1) 5th LSU(10-2) 8th Alabama(12-1) 1st Miss State(8-4) 58th

    Klein faced 3 defenses ranked in the top 74 defense nationally. One is Texas Tech which is not as advertised. I will explain at the end of the post.

    The best defense Klein faced was TCU(18th)...his numbers were:

    12/21 145 yards 0 TDs 1 INT 15 rushes for 50 yards and 2 TDs

    These were his numbers against the 2nd best defense he faced(Oklahoma - 44th):

    13/21 149 0 TDs 0 INTs 17 rushes 79 yards 1 TD

    I'm sorry but Texas Tech's defense is not as advertised. Midway through the season, they were ranked 1st nationally and they shut down WVU so we al thought it might be legit. Well, it wasn't. They got there by playing NW State, Texas State, New Mexico, and Iowa State to open the season. 7 of the final 8 opponents went on to score 34 or more points...4 went for 50+.They ended the season giving 31.8 PPG which ranks 93rd nationally so I have no idea how they have a defense ranked 39th nationally in total defense.

    In the end, posting numbers that Klein put up against some of the worst defenses in the national and comparing them to Manziel's numbers against some of the strongest defenses nationally is simply idiotic. I like Klein and he is a really good player on a really good team. Manziel is simply incredible.

    Really solid post, except that you simply do not need to call people idiotic because they disagree with you. That is completely uncalled for. Determining the Heisman, given the incredibly small sample size of just 12 games, is very subjective. People will have varying opinions. That doesn't make them idiots.

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    thejumper5

  • thejumper5 said...

    Really solid post, except that you simply do not need to call people idiotic because they disagree with you. That is completely uncalled for. Determining the Heisman, given the incredibly small sample size of just 12 games, is very subjective. People will have varying opinions. That doesn't make them idiots.

    I didn't call anyone an idiot...If someone believes he is better or more deserving of the Heisman, I'm cool with that. I don't care who wins it. I was simply stating that someone threw numbers out there and suggested that they are indicative of comparing performance between the 2 and I think that is idiotic. Maybe idiotic is not the right word. We all do stupid things sometimes, knowingly or through ignorance. It's really not that big of a deal. If someone is going to compare anything, at least give some substance behind the numbers.

    bamabum5

  • thejumper5 said...

    Yeah, I was just passing the stat along that I read on a Tweet from the Big XII. Now that I check the stats myself, it isn't close to being right. I'll get the right stats and fix the OP.

    Wow, didn't realize Manziel got the majority of his big numbers
    against the weaker teams on the schedule.

    31 TD's / 2 Int vs the 6 weakest D's he faced.
    6 TD's / 6 Int passing vs the better 6 teams on the schedule.

    Manziel vs the weaker 6 on the schedule
    (2 D1aa schools, SMU, La Tech, Arkansas, Auburn)
    ========================================
    18 Td's passing / 13 Td's rushing
    31 Td's combined
    2 Int's
    Avg. 10.4 per pass attempt
    Avg 8.6 per carry
    Avg 9.8 per play (attempt/carries combined)
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Manziel vs the tougher 6 opponents Manziel faced
    (Missouri, Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Florida, Alabama)
    ========================================
    6 Td's passing / 6 Td's rushing
    12 Td's combined
    6 Int's
    Avg. 7.1 per pass attempt
    Avg 4.8 per carry
    Avg 6.3 per play (attempt/carries combined)

    In Manziel's 2 home losses
    Avg 5.2 yards per pass attempt
    Avg 2.6 yards per carry
    0 TD/ 3 INT Passing
    1 TD Rushing
    Avg 4.5 per play (attempt/carries combined)

    It looks like it's just Johny hype

    NcaaAssassinG13

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