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Klein and Manziel vs. BCS teams with winning records

  • Haha. I like how you used best and worst faced, despite the fact the averages could be totally different for a comparable player. Numbers never lie! lol

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Haha. I like how you used best and worst faced, despite the fact the averages could be totally different for a comparable player. Numbers never lie! lol

    Let's post the stats from the top ten teams that Klein has faced. Here they are:

    00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • Let's ignore the mean, the standard deviation, let's just ignore everything. Pick and choose what we want! Yay! Everyone wins! panic

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Let's ignore the mean, the standard deviation, let's just ignore everything. Pick and choose what we want! Yay! Everyone wins! panic

    Who, me?

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Haha. I like how you used best and worst faced, despite the fact the averages could be totally different for a comparable player. Numbers never lie! lol

    Its pretty simple really - 2 D1aa teams, SMU , Auburn, Arkansas, and the 3rd place WAC team that gave up tons of pts to SJ St and Utah St are the weakest 6 teams he faced.

    Hard to argue otherwise, but I'm sure you will try.

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    Its pretty simple really - 2 D1aa teams, SMU , Auburn, Arkansas, and the 3rd place WAC team that gave up tons of pts to SJ St and Utah St are the weakest 6 teams he faced.

    Hard to argue otherwise, but I'm sure you will try.

    It's called context and you have never used it in your great statistical assertions.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    Its pretty simple really - 2 D1aa teams, SMU , Auburn, Arkansas, and the 3rd place WAC team that gave up tons of pts to SJ St and Utah St are the weakest 6 teams he faced.

    Hard to argue otherwise, but I'm sure you will try.

    Now go back and look at the rankings of the defenses that Klein has played, all of them. You still don't seem to understand that Manziel got to 3k/1k faster than any player in history, or that he broke Cam Newton's yardage record, two games faster.

    signature image signature image signature image

    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    It's called context and you have never used it in your great statistical assertions.

    that's real fancy Nancy.

    You mean context like the kind bcs computer programmer Billingsley uses when he rated Alabama's schedule #18 and Florida's #32 hardest in the nation?

    Florida #32 SOS?? Get real. How do let ish like that go on?

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    that's real fancy Nancy.

    You mean context like the kind bcs computer programmer Billingsley uses when he rated Alabama's schedule #18 and Florida's #32 hardest in the nation?

    Florida #32 SOS?? Get real. How do let ish like that go on?

    That's a nice straw man you built there.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    That's a nice straw man you built there.

    Yep, he continues to lie and twist stats to fit his own agenda.

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    Now go back and look at the rankings of the defenses that Klein has played, all of them. You still don't seem to understand that Manziel got to 3k/1k faster than any player in history, or that he broke Cam Newton's yardage record, two games faster.

    All I'm saying is he looks like Johny average when he is facing a halfway decent team.

    Even look at 3 of the 6 "good" teams he played...
    Ole Miss gave up 66 to Texas
    Mizzou gave up 31 to Syracuse and
    Miss St gave up 24 to Troy

    Those 3 + 6 weaker teams = 9 reasons why Johny's hyped 4 heisman.

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • USMCAG said...

    Yep, he continues to lie and twist stats to fit his own agenda.

    Yup , just go the Billingsley report and see for yourself cowboy.

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    All I'm saying is he looks like Johny average when he is facing a halfway decent team.

    Even look at 3 of the 6 "good" teams he played...
    Ole Miss gave up 66 to Texas
    Mizzou gave up 31 to Syracuse and
    Miss St gave up 24 to Troy

    Those 3 + 6 weaker teams = 9 reasons why Johny's hyped 4 heisman.

    So we only look at scores then? No total yards? What about a comparison of standard deviation of defense faced and then a comparison of defense average faced? Klein has played against a high number of mediocre teams. I'd bet to assume that the defense average he faced is worse than Manziel and the standard deviation is smaller as well.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    All I'm saying is he looks like Johny average when he is facing a halfway decent team.

    Even look at 3 of the 6 "good" teams he played... Ole Miss gave up 66 to Texas Mizzou gave up 31 to Syracuse and Miss St gave up 24 to Troy

    Those 3 + 6 weaker teams = 9 reasons why Johny's hyped 4 heisman.

    There is no Hype, Johnny has done things that no other freshman in HISTORY has done. Obviously you have never watched him play.

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Klein has played against a high number of mediocre teams

    D1aa South Car St
    D1aa Sam Houston St
    SMU
    La Tech
    Arkansas
    Auburn
    Ole Miss
    Miss State
    Missouri
    ------------
    You mean more mediocre than the 9 Manziel played. I hope you are joking.

    Iowa St was the 9th place team in the Big 12 and they would have beaten all 9 of those teams.

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    D1aa South Car St D1aa Sam Houston St SMU La Tech Arkansas Auburn Ole Miss Miss State Missouri ------------ You mean more mediocre than the 9 Manziel played. I hope you are joking.

    Iowa St was the 9th place team in the Big 12 and they would have beaten all 9 of those teams.

    Keep hating, the voters disagree with you lol

    Stiff Arm Trophy: Who is the most outstanding college football player in America?

    Lots and lots of enthusiasm from Heisman fans, and everyone's chomping at the bit -- me too, but this is still very early, and the votes are trickling in. We are a long, long way from having a complete projection - so hang tight, we'll have a lot more votes ...

    www.stiffarmtrophy.com
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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    D1aa South Car St
    D1aa Sam Houston St
    SMU
    La Tech
    Arkansas
    Auburn
    Ole Miss
    Miss State
    Missouri
    ------------
    You mean more mediocre than the 9 Manziel played. I hope you are joking.

    Iowa St was the 9th place team in the Big 12 and they would have beaten all 9 of those teams.

    I say that because of assertion that Kansas State's average defense faced probably has a small standard deviation and is worse than Texas A&M's.

    Of those nine teams you just listed their overall record is 41-43 plus two FCS. Kansas State's nine worse opponents are 1 FCS and 47-46. Not too much of a difference except the extra FCS team (because of Texas backing out IIRC).

    Kansas State's three best opponents are 25-11. A&M's are 33-4.

    I'm too lazy to go pick apart defenses faced, but I've seen numbers and the averages aren't really close.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • USMCAG said...

    Keep hating, the voters disagree with you lol

    Actually I kind of like Manziel, so I'm not hating. Just was suprised he had most of his production vs really bad D.
    31 TD and 2 Ints vs
    2 D1aa teams
    La Tech gave up 100 their last 2 games and 3 teams that gave up around 30 per game- Ark, Aub, SMU.

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    Actually I kind of like Manziel, so I'm not hating. Just was suprised he had most of his production vs really bad D.
    31 TD and 2 Ints vs
    2 D1aa teams
    La Tech gave up 100 their last 2 games and 3 teams that gave up around 30 per game- Ark, Aub, SMU.

    Pretty evident from watching his big games from a statistical standpoint, but besides the LSU game, he still played well against the better competition (like Klein). His total yards is what is the most impressive. He's been pretty consistent with his YPG.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Pretty evident from watching his big games from a statistical standpoint, but besides the LSU game, he still played well against the better competition (like Klein). His total yards is what is the most impressive. He's been pretty consistent with his YPG.

    No doubt he is a really good exciting player. However, it looks like if he would have gone
    to Oregon like he orginally planned, they would be calling him Johny receiver.

    Manziel vs Oregon's Mariota (vs the top 6 teams each QB played)

    Yards avg. per carry
    Manziel - 4.8
    Mariota - 8.1

    Yards avg. per pass attempt
    Manziel - 7.1
    Mariota - 7.5

    Yards avg. per play (pass attempt & rushes)
    Manziel 6.3 (328 attempts/carries/ 2,080 yards)
    Mariota 7.6 (212 attempts/carries/1,617 yards)

    Total yards avg per game
    Manziel - 346
    Mariota - 270

    Total Touchdowns/ Int.
    Manziel - 12 / 6
    Mariota - 15 / 3

    Record vs Top 6 Opponents
    Manziel 4-2
    Mariota 5-1

    Ya, I know A&M played vs a a few better defenses, but you also got to remember that some
    of those defenses are "better defenses" because they play a bunch of their games vs "bad offenses".

    Anyway just looking at the D's for fun, the top 6 teams Oregon faced allowed 20.7 ppg when you take out what Oregon scored on them. The 6 A&M faced allowed 17.2 ppg when you take out what A&M scored against them.

    Here's what Oregon & A&M averaged against their top 6 Opponents and the difference.

    Oregon 44.7 ppg - 20.7 ppga = Opp gave up 24 ppg more when facing Oregon.
    A&M 32.0 ppg - 17.2 ppga = Opp gave up 14.8 ppg more when facing A&M.

    None of that proves anything except it shows the effect each offense had on the defenses they played.
    But I think it's really hard to look at defensive rankings and such because it all depends on how good the
    offenses are of that team's opponents.

    Mariota > Manziel

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    No doubt he is a really good exciting player. However, it looks like if he would have gone
    to Oregon like he orginally planned, they would be calling him Johny receiver.

    Manziel vs Oregon's Mariota (vs the top 6 teams each QB played)

    Yards avg. per carry
    Manziel - 4.8
    Mariota - 8.1

    Yards avg. per pass attempt
    Manziel - 7.1
    Mariota - 7.5

    Yards avg. per play (pass attempt & rushes)
    Manziel 6.3 (328 attempts/carries/ 2,080 yards)
    Mariota 7.6 (212 attempts/carries/1,617 yards)

    Total yards avg per game
    Manziel - 346
    Mariota - 270

    Total Touchdowns/ Int.
    Manziel - 12 / 6
    Mariota - 15 / 3

    Record vs Top 6 Opponents
    Manziel 4-2
    Mariota 5-1

    Ya, I know A&M played vs a a few better defenses, but you also got to remember that some
    of those defenses are "better defenses" because they play a bunch of their games vs "bad offenses".

    Anyway just looking at the D's for fun, the top 6 teams Oregon faced allowed 20.7 ppg when you take out what Oregon scored on them. The 6 A&M faced allowed 17.2 ppg when you take out what A&M scored against them.

    Here's what Oregon & A&M averaged against their top 6 Opponents and the difference.

    Oregon 44.7 ppg - 20.7 ppga = Opp gave up 24 ppg more when facing Oregon.
    A&M 32.0 ppg - 17.2 ppga = Opp gave up 14.8 ppg more when facing A&M.

    None of that proves anything except it shows the effect each offense had on the defenses they played.
    But I think it's really hard to look at defensive rankings and such because it all depends on how good the
    offenses are of that team's opponents.

    Mariota > Manziel

    1st bold- You know better

    2nd bold- I think it would be more informative to breakdown the player's ppg rather than the team. One could be the benefit of a more dynamic offense.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    2nd bold- I think it would be more informative to breakdown the player's ppg rather than the team. One could be the benefit of a more dynamic offense.

    Makes sense,

    I kind of already did that though, but here you go

    Against the top 6 teams they played
    Manziel - 12 TD's / 6 Int
    Mariota - 15 TD's / 3 Int

    Against the weaker 6 teams
    Manziel - 31 TD's/ 2 Int
    Mariota - 19 TD's 1 Int

    Edit: BTW - Nice choice on the MJK lyrics you've quoted.

    This post was edited by NcaaAssassinG13 on 12/3/2012 at 6:27 AM

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    No doubt he is a really good exciting player. However, it looks like if he would have gone
    to Oregon like he orginally planned, they would be calling him Johny receiver.

    Manziel vs Oregon's Mariota (vs the top 6 teams each QB played)

    Yards avg. per carry
    Manziel - 4.8
    Mariota - 8.1

    Yards avg. per pass attempt
    Manziel - 7.1
    Mariota - 7.5

    Yards avg. per play (pass attempt & rushes)
    Manziel 6.3 (328 attempts/carries/ 2,080 yards)
    Mariota 7.6 (212 attempts/carries/1,617 yards)

    Total yards avg per game
    Manziel - 346
    Mariota - 270

    Total Touchdowns/ Int.
    Manziel - 12 / 6
    Mariota - 15 / 3

    Record vs Top 6 Opponents
    Manziel 4-2
    Mariota 5-1

    Ya, I know A&M played vs a a few better defenses, but you also got to remember that some
    of those defenses are "better defenses" because they play a bunch of their games vs "bad offenses".

    Anyway just looking at the D's for fun, the top 6 teams Oregon faced allowed 20.7 ppg when you take out what Oregon scored on them. The 6 A&M faced allowed 17.2 ppg when you take out what A&M scored against them.

    Here's what Oregon & A&M averaged against their top 6 Opponents and the difference.

    Oregon 44.7 ppg - 20.7 ppga = Opp gave up 24 ppg more when facing Oregon.
    A&M 32.0 ppg - 17.2 ppga = Opp gave up 14.8 ppg more when facing A&M.

    None of that proves anything except it shows the effect each offense had on the defenses they played.
    But I think it's really hard to look at defensive rankings and such because it all depends on how good the
    offenses are of that team's opponents.

    Mariota > Manziel

    It's almost like you are admitting thay aTm has equal talent on offense at the skill positions as Oregon?

    Do you think that is the case?

    BetterOff

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    All I'm saying is he looks like Johny average when he is facing a halfway decent team.

    Even look at 3 of the 6 "good" teams he played... Ole Miss gave up 66 to Texas Mizzou gave up 31 to Syracuse and Miss St gave up 24 to Troy

    Those 3 + 6 weaker teams = 9 reasons why Johny's hyped 4 heisman.

    Show me Kleins stats against a defense ranked in the top 10? I'll hold while you gather them.

    Since that's not going to happen, show me his stats vs OU (#44 in total defense) or TCU ( #18 in total defense) or Baylor (#119 in total defense)....

    You act like Johnny was padding stats against bad competition but keep in mind that every team plays poor competition at some point in the season AND that Manziel often didnt play in the 3rd and 4th quarter of games because the score was so lopsided by that point. Hard to pad stats when you're not on the field...

    stir8ag

  • Nick Florence from Baylor has more Total O than Manziel or Klein.

    dpfenny

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