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Mike Slive is skeered to play up north

  • SignalBama said...

    I would say that publicly as well. You don't want the fans to know you are being greedy. You want them on your side.

    Oh, it's a ruse.

    My bad.

    signature image

    devidee

  • Trevor Barnes said...

    The problem with that logic though is that the NFL has playoff games all the time in outdoor stadiums with "severe" weather. They take the Playoffs pretty seriously in the NFL. I see no reason why the NCAA wouldn't have similar standards.

    I don't consider snow to be severe incidentally, a white-out blizzard, maybe, but not an average snow shower.

    NFL playoffs aren't neutral sites. We're assuming neutral sites for this discussion (aren't we?). Given the contiguous 50 states to choose from, the typical person would choose a warm weather outdoor venue over a cold-weather outdoor venue every time.

    tlhwg

  • tlhwg said...

    b/c all things being equal people prefer warmer weather to colder weather. (I'm assuming your question was sincere, but may not be since my answer seems so obvious.)

    Yep, there's a reason people don't go NORTH for spring break!!

    Born and bred Bulldog, living in Maryland since '88

    furrier

  • tlhwg said...

    NFL playoffs aren't neutral sites. We're assuming neutral sites for this discussion (aren't we?). Given the contiguous 50 states to choose from, the typical person would choose a warm weather outdoor venue over a cold-weather outdoor venue every time.

    No.

    We're talking about holding the semi finals at the higher ranked teams home site.

    Then holding the championship game at a neutral site that would rotate through out the country.

    signature image

    devidee

  • MrWoodson said...

    That's absurd. First, even a 50,000 seat stadium with tickets priced at $50 each would generate $2.5 million. That is over four times what it would cost for the visiting team to travel to the game. Second, the vast majority of money is made on TV revenue. That is how BCS bowls can pay each team close to $20 million. TV revenue for a semifinal game will be equally massive regardless of whether the game is played at a 50,000 seat college stadium or a 65,000 seat NFL stadium. The difference in ticket revenue is relatively small in the grand scheme if things. Third, most major college stadiums are as large or larger than nearly all NFL stadiums. That means unless you believe BSU or UConn regularly will end up ranked #1 or #2 and get home field advantage in a semifinal, the stadium size argument actually supports the home field advantage model.

    Good pointed argument. A few things to point out though. NFL averages a higher attendance than the NCAA. Sure you have major programs in the NCAA with large stadiums. But the worst attendance in the NFL was 49,251(The Bengals). The NCAA average home attendance for the 2010 season for the entire NCAA division 1 was was 45,912 per home game (link provided below). There may be more larger stadiums in the NCAA but their are 3 times the number of smaller stadiums. Just because the NCAA has large stadiums doesn't mean they average more fans per game.

    As for television revenue... It is guaranteed now to a certain extent regardless of ratings. With a new system they have to go renegotiate that. You bet your bottom dollar they are going to look for the best potential package to take to the stations that broadcasts those games. This is my overall point. They will always look to make more money or at least maintain what they already make. Hopefully for all of you arguing for home games they can get as much for those games as the current BCS payout. Everything right now is an estimate and these guys are used to working with the bowl format and guaranteed money. They don't want to see the schools they represent or the conference to take in less money because of a change of format. This has always been what stopped a playoff in College Football. Hopefully it works out this time.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by SignalBama on 4/26/2012 at 3:39 PM

    NCAA

    Overview

    www.ncaa.org
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    SignalBama

  • devidee said...

    No.

    We're talking about holding the semi finals at the higher ranked teams home site.

    Then holding the championship game at a neutral site that would rotate through out the country.

    Oh, well I'm against that and I hope the Conference Commissioners are too. Earlier in this thread I gave 4 reasons why neutral sites are the best option:

    4 reasons to have playoff games at neutral sites:
    1. Stadium size: some stadiums are too small to host such an important event--hello TCU, Oregon, OKST, Boise St!
    2. Local infrastructure: again, *most* college towns are just too small to host such an enormous event that will generate enormous amounts of revenue for the local businesses and meet the needs of the attendees (e.g., nice hotels, nice restaurants, quality entertainment, etc)
    3. Stadium location: players don't want to play in an ice bowl, and fans don't want to attend a game in freezing weather--this is a platitude which has support from all of the major existing bowls.
    4. Current conference championship games are played at neutral sites and no fans from the higher ranked team complain that they're losing their *competitive advantage*; as are all of the games in the NCAA basketball tourney, etc.

    tlhwg

  • furrier said...

    Yep, there's a reason people don't go NORTH for spring break!!

    We aren't talking about Spring Break. We are talking about football. Most people do not flock to Dallas or Glendale for Spring Break. Using your logic, the best place to hold the title game would be Cancun.

    MrWoodson

  • devidee said...

    Oh, it's a ruse.

    My bad.

    Yep. Remember it was The Pac-12, Big 12 and Big 10 who were against the plus-1 the first time it was brought up my the SEC and ACC. It took an all-SEC title game before other conferences saw they didn't get a spot in the game or that payout. It always comes down to money for these guys. Hence the million dollar TV deals and the Big Ten network.

    signature image

    SignalBama

  • MrWoodson said...

    We aren't talking about Spring Break. We are talking about football. Most people do not flock to Dallas or Glendale for Spring Break. Using your logic, the best place to hold the title game would be Cancun.

    You're ignoring the spectators. People don't want to spend their hard earned money (and lots of it) to visit the great white north...

    tlhwg

  • the only reason this is a debate is bc michigan wouldnt want to take their band if its beyond 30 miles

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    Pichelmayer

  • tlhwg said...

    You're ignoring the spectators. People don't want to spend their hard earned money (and lots of it) to visit the great white north...

    You are missing the point.

    A game in Ohio Stadium or Penn State or South Bend, etc will sell out regardless.

    signature image

    devidee

  • tlhwg said...

    You're ignoring the spectators. People don't want to spend their hard earned money (and lots of it) to visit the great white north...

    I like your point about College towns and lack of accommodations. Most (Including Tuscaloosa) would not be able to handle all of that. Home games are good because most fans come by RV or just for the day of the game. But if they had to host fans for 3 or 4 days... That would get tricky.

    signature image

    SignalBama

  • SignalBama said...

    Good pointed argument. A few things to point out though. NFL averages a higher attendance than the NCAA. Sure you have major programs in the NCAA with large stadiums. But the worst attendance in the NFL was 49,251(The Bengals). The NCAA average home attendance for the 2010 season for the entire NCAA division was was 45,912 per home game (link provided below). Their may be more larger stadiums in the NCAA but their are 3 times the number of smaller stadiums. Just because the NCAA has large stadiums doesn't mean they average more fans per game.

    As for television revenue... It is guaranteed now to a certain extent regardless of ratings. With a new system they have to go renegotiate that. You bet your bottom dollar they are going to look for the best potential package to take to the stations that broadcasts those games. This is my overall point. They will always look to make more money or at least maintain what they already make. Hopefully for all of you arguing for home games they can get as much for those games as the current BCS payout. Everything right now is an estimate and these guys are used to working with the bowl format and guaranteed money. They don't want to see the schools they represent or the conference to take in less money because of a change of format. This has always been what stopped a playoff in College Football. Hopefully it works out this time.

    You are comparing regular season attendance figures, including the figures for teams that have no chance of hosting a semifinal. I guarantee you that the college semifinal games, just like NFL playoff games, will be sold out regardless of the average regular season attendance figures.

    The four team playoff adds two semifinal games. The TV revenue alone for those games probably will be at least in the range of $50-$100 million. In fact, there is zero chance that any of the options under consideration generate less money than the status quo. Also, as I stated above, there is absolutely no evidence that the TV ratings/revenue will be lower if the games are held at college stadiums instead of NFL stadiums. For all we know, the ratings/revenue could be higher at college stadiums. You are just throwing random hypothetical objections at the wall hoping that one of them sticks. If you have evidence that the TV ratings/revenue will be higher under one of the proposals, please provide it. Otherwise, let's stick to facts.

    This post has been edited 5 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 4/26/2012 at 3:59 PM

    MrWoodson

  • MrWoodson said...

    You are comparing regular season attendance figures, including the figures for teams that have no chance of hosting a semifinal. I guarantee you that the college semifinal games, just like NFL playoff games, will be sold out regardless of the average regular season attendance figures.

    The four team playoff adds two semifinal games. The TV revenue alone for those games probably will be at least in the range of $50-$100 million. There is zero chance that any of the options under consideration generate less money than the status quo. Also, as I stated above, there is absolutely no evidence that the TV ratings/revenue will be lower if the games are held at college stadiums instead of NFL stadiums. For all we know, the ratings/revenue could be higher at college stadiums. You are just throwing random hypothetical objections at the wall hoping that one of them sticks. If you have evidence that the TV ratings/revenue will be higher under one of the proposals, please provide it. Otherwise, let's stick to facts.

    Championship BCS games in College are lower rated than NFL playoff games. They will likely never reach NFL numbers. Again my point is this is all an estimate. Why do you think they just don't decide on a format and run with it ? They all have an agenda to get the most revenue for the conferences they represent. If they allowed the fans to make the choices I am willing to bet the mass majority (Yes including Southerners) would choose home games for the first round. Like I said you make a good argument. All but the TV ratings thing... I mean if a college title game can't beat an NFL playoff game then an NCAA playoff game won't do it. But it could generate numbers similar to BCS title games hopefully. I was the one sticking to facts... You keep throwing out estimates and what ifs.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by SignalBama on 4/26/2012 at 4:08 PM

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    SignalBama

  • Alright guys thanks for the fun clean discussion. Gotta run.

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    SignalBama

  • NFL plays playoffs at the best teams home sites....no faking pussy up there in the snow and mud. This is football, its meant to be played in the elements. this isn't a vacation....markets are bigger in the north....MUCH bigger anyways....hilarious you talk about southern girls as well....I've seen more disgusting trailer trash girls in the south than ive ever seen in my life anywhere else....ignorance is bliss.

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    Notorious URB

  • Could you provide a link of Slive saying he was against home playoff games ? All I saw was this article when I used google. I'll check back later to see what you posted.

    Mike Slive is open to home playoff games - SEC Blog - ESPN

    Playoff talk is heating up in college football. We've heard about a plus-one, using home sites for playoff games and the possibility of just using con

    espn.go.com
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    SignalBama

  • tlhwg said...

    You're ignoring the spectators. People don't want to spend their hard earned money (and lots of it) to visit the great white north...

    If you are talking about the money spent on air travel, hotel rooms and restaurants, I agree. It will be less. But it is not the responsibility of CFB to support the tourist industry of half a dozen select cities in the South and West. In fact, that is one of the major reasons that many of the conferences are suddenly supporting a playoff (see Dan Weztel's recent article and Larry Scott's quotes in that article).

    Shouldn't an Alabama fan prefer a format that supports the local economy in Tuscaloosa rather than the local economy in Dallas? Same with an LSU fan favoring Baton Rouge over New Orleans? New Orleans already gets the Sugar Bowl every year and even a Super Bowl every few years. And cities like Dallas and New Orleans will almost certainly get the tourism revenue from the newly created NCAA championship game a fair amount of the time. Do they really need all the semifinal tourism revenue too?

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 4/26/2012 at 4:51 PM

    MrWoodson

  • SignalBama said...

    Could you provide a link of Slive saying he was against home playoff games ? All I saw was this article when I used google. I'll check back later to see what you posted.

    People were tweeting his quotes from the meeting. That's what is in the OP.

    If Slive is truly open to home semi games please disregard this entire thread.

    signature image

    devidee

  • MrWoodson said...

    If you are talking about the money spent on air travel, hotel rooms and restaurants, I agree. It will be less. But it is not the responsibility of CFB to support the tourist industry in half a dozen select cities in the South and West. In fact, that is one of the major reasons that many of the conferences are suddenly supporting a playoff (see Dan Weztel's recent article and Larry Scott's quotes in that article).

    Shouldn't an Alabama fan prefer a format that supports the local economy in Tuscaloosa rather than the local economy in Dallas? Same with an LSU fan favoting Baton Rouge over New Orleans. New Orleans already gets the Sugar Bowl every year and even a Super Bowl every few years. And cities like Dallas and New Orleans will almost certainly get the tourism revenue from the newly created NCAA championship game a fair amount of the time. Do they really need all the semifinal tourism revenue too?

    I just posted a link where Slive said he was open to home playoff games. The OP may have just made this whole thing up to troll. I can't check in as much because I am finishing here at work.... But I am willing to bet Slive never said it now.

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    SignalBama

  • tlhwg said...

    You're ignoring the spectators. People don't want to spend their hard earned money (and lots of it) to visit the great white north...

    And people in the great white north don't want to spend all of their hard earned money flying across the country, paying for an expensive hotel, and purchasing $500-$2500 game tickets twice in two weeks. It isn't just about what pompous "our-weather-is-better-than-yours" southerners want. Like someone pointed out earlier, American football originated in the north. It was a game made for all conditions, including sunny, rainy, windy, and snowy weather. That's what makes it so great. We play on fields, not inside courts. Weather is part of the game. Speaking of that, think long and hard about which NFL teams have been most relevant lately. New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, New York, Denver, etc. Other than the Saints, the south hasn't had many good NFL teams lately. It stands to reason that maybe the reason northern teams are better in professional football is because they're used to playing in tougher environments. Understandably so. You try to make arguments that nobody will pay to go watch a game in bad weather. Wrong. YOU won't pay to watch a game in bad weather. It's funny that while your southern teams are packing their 70,000 plus capacity stadiums, our northern teams are packing 80,000 plus capacity stadiums (IN NOVEMBER). The fact is that games in the North will still sell out (many of them in bigger stadiums too). My guess is that intimidates you a little bit. You know that a lot of people down there will have the same outlook you do and as a result, the northern team will have 90% of the fans in the stadium. It takes away from your competitive advantage. It's just like you grimmacing when Slive started trying to deal with oversigning. Saban and Petrino (among others) griped because they knew it would take away from their competitive advantage. You act like us Big Ten people are just full of excuses. But what it truthfully boils down to is you recognize the legitimacy of our claims and are threatened that your product will lose its luster when the playing field is leveled. Like Devidee said, you all are too scared to step into our back yard.

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    "Avoid the clap." -Jimmy Dugan

    buckeye_mikey69

  • SignalBama said...

    Championship BCS games in College are lower rated than NFL playoff games. They will likely never reach NFL numbers. Again my point is this is all an estimate. Why do you think they just don't decide on a format and run with it ? They all have an agenda to get the most revenue for the conferences they represent. If they allowed the fans to make the choices I am willing to bet the mass majority (Yes including Southerners) would choose home games for the first round. Like I said you make a good argument. All but the TV ratings thing... I mean if a college title game can't beat an NFL playoff game then an NCAA playoff game won't do it. But it could generate numbers similar to BCS title games hopefully. I was the one sticking to facts... You keep throwing out estimates and what ifs.

    NFL ratings are higher than college football ratings. Everyone knows that. But there is no evidence that it is because of the stadiums they play in. And there is no evidence you will increase the ratings of college football games by moving them to NFL stadiums. That would be like me arguing that it would actually reduce ratings because Michigan's ratings are higher than Pitt's. You are comparing apples to oranges.

    MrWoodson

  • devidee said...

    You are missing the point.

    A game in Ohio Stadium or Penn State or South Bend, etc will sell out regardless.

    Not only that, a sellout at OSU or PSU would mean about 40,000 more seats than the average NFL stadium. ND would be about 20,000.

    MrWoodson

  • SignalBama said...

    Could you provide a link of Slive saying he was against home playoff games ? All I saw was this article when I used google. I'll check back later to see what you posted.

    I would love it if Slive supported the home field advantage model. Delany and Scott clearly do, so if Slive gets on board it should be a no brainer.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 4/26/2012 at 4:58 PM

    MrWoodson

  • tlhwg said...

    NFL playoffs aren't neutral sites. We're assuming neutral sites for this discussion (aren't we?). Given the contiguous 50 states to choose from, the typical person would choose a warm weather outdoor venue over a cold-weather outdoor venue every time.

    We're talking about two things:

    1) The possibility that the semis are played on campus. As has been pointed out, it would be a guaranteed sell out for just about any major D1 football school.

    2) The possibility that the semis are played at a neutral location. If that's the case, certainly they should be rotated around the nation and locations like Lucas Oil Stadium and Ford Field should be in the rotation. Both have successfully hosted Super Bowls as well as Final Fours. There's no good reason they shouldn't be included in such a rotation.

    Trevor Barnes