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Not hiring people who smoke: Ethical?

  • Just saw on the news that UAB Medicine is going to start requiring that new employees take a nicotine test to prove they don't smoke before they'll be hired. Current employees who smoke will be "grandfathered in," so to speak. Now, I don't smoke and I don't particularly like when people smoke around me, but is this ethical? Tobacco, as bad as it is, isn't illegal. I could see someone banning smoking at work, but at all?

    Maybe I'm weird, but I've heard a similar argument made against people that drink (IE: You should have to be alcohol free 100% to be hired, or companies should be allowed to require as such). IMO, what I do in my free, non-job time isn't my company's business when what I'm doing is legal (drugs, etc. are an argument for another topic).

    Thoughts? Again, they're not saying you can't smoke at work, they're saying their new employees can't smoke. Ever. Period.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Don't have a problem with it

    This post was edited by NoVaNoles on 11/14/2012 at 7:02 PM

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    NoVaNoles

  • I am fine with this. Smokers are constantly taking smoke breaks.

    Aussie

  • I don't see a problem with this being a pre-req for enrollment in a company-sponsored health-care plan, but no company should be able to mandate your behavior outside of work unless it affects your actual work product.

    If the company doesn't want to hire smokers, I think it'd be much easier just to tell people up front that the company doesn't offer any smoke breaks at any point throughout the day. That'd probably weed enough people out in advance.

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    CMXI

  • Sad thing is narcissist's on Facebook have made employees aware of their lifestyle off the clock. As a result private is becoming public.

    My opinion is its job specific. As a whole no though.

    Baroldonfire

  • Aussie said...

    I am fine with this. Smokers are constantly taking smoke breaks.

    But should the solution be to outlaw (is that the right word?) smoke breaks instead of smoking all together?

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    sf2k4 ●

  • sf2k4 said...

    But should the solution be to outlaw (is that the right word?) smoke breaks instead of smoking all together?

    Yeah I was mostly just joking about that. But yes that is how it should be handled.

    Aussie

  • I wonder how they test for the nicotine, too. Like if there's a minimum amount. I've got a buddy who owns a hookah and he likes to smoke it a few times a week (shisha, not pot) but I wouldn't put him in the same boat as a pack-a-day smoker. But I didn't see in the report if they had a specific amount of nicotine they looked for.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Aussie said...

    Yeah I was mostly just joking about that. But yes that is how it should be handled.

    It's hard to have conversations on the Internet. Most things are lost in translation. lol

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Yeah smokers and drinkers don't belong in the health industry.

    Fuzz

  • Fuzz said...

    Yeah smokers and drinkers don't belong in the health industry.

    This. I live next to a major hospital and it really sends the wrong message when I drive past one of the side roads and there are 30 doctors and nurses taking a smoke break.

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    CMXI

  • The Cleveland Clinic has had this policy for years. All employees are tested for nicotine and smoking is completely forbidden on the premises. People aren't even allowed to smoke in their vehicles if the vehicle is on Clinic property.

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    devidee

  • Fuzz said...

    Yeah smokers and drinkers don't belong in the health industry.

    While I agree the irony is hard to ignore, I think you'd be surprised at how many nurses and doctors smoke. I assume most if it carries over from nursing school and medical school.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Like CMII said, has to do with the health insurance issues.

    Plus, smokers stink. Who wants to sit next to that guy all day.

    free shoes

  • UAB banning anyone from smoking outside of work has nothing to do with smoke breaks or smoking around the hospital. Insurance costs are up and UAB know that if they can prove to VIVA Health Systems that they have no employees that smoke their premiums will go down.

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    kitemac ●

  • I think testing for nicotine is a bit too much... but don't visibly allow doctors, nurses, etc.. to be out front lighting up.

    If they smoke a cigarette at home after work, I don't really care as long as they still know what they are talking about. "Do as I say not as I do".

    Fuzz

  • kitemac said...

    UAB banning anyone from smoking outside of work has nothing to do with smoke breaks or smoking around the hospital. Insurance costs are up and UAB know that if they can prove to VIVA Health Systems that they have no employees that smoke their premiums will go down.

    Hmmm... that makes sense.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • When you go to a hospital and there are nurses and doctors and even orderlies outside smoking and some are obese you just think evil thoughts. I admit.

    If I was a business owner and hope to be in the next two years I won't even ponder hiring a smoker and will have numerous incentive programs such as the pedometer challenges etc to encourage activity. I still really dont understand why health insurance isnt like car insurance. If you are fat, smoke and cant prove an excersize routine your rate should be crippling. People make as many excuses as the day is long but if that happened I bet a thousand bucks you'd see 3/4s of the fat people you know lose about 75lbs over the next 12-18 months.

    fsufsu ●

  • sf2k4 said...

    Just saw on the news that UAB Medicine is going to start requiring that new employees take a nicotine test to prove they don't smoke before they'll be hired. Current employees who smoke will be "grandfathered in," so to speak. Now, I don't smoke and I don't particularly like when people smoke around me, but is this ethical? Tobacco, as bad as it is, isn't illegal. I could see someone banning smoking at work, but at all?

    Maybe I'm weird, but I've heard a similar argument made against people that drink (IE: You should have to be alcohol free 100% to be hired, or companies should be allowed to require as such). IMO, what I do in my free, non-job time isn't my company's business when what I'm doing is legal (drugs, etc. are an argument for another topic).

    Thoughts? Again, they're not saying you can't smoke at work, they're saying their new employees can't smoke. Ever. Period.

    I think it's bull crap. Don't smoke but, don't think they should be allowed to test for legal substances to determine gainful employment. I understand the labor and health positions tho. And no, I don't think it's ethical.

    This post was edited by AuburnInOrlando on 11/14/2012 at 7:43 PM

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    I Believe Auburn and Love IT...4 Life! You should prepare yourself to live with the consequences of your decisions, whatever they may be.

    AuburnInOrlando

  • I understand the reasoning for this,especially for the medical field. In an effort to promote a healthy lifestyle to their patients, they would have a hard time counseling them when they themselves partake in that same vice. I am a smoker that currently pays an extra $480 per year for my family health insurance because of my pack a day habit.

    Knot Hole Cock

  • Aussie said...

    I am fine with this. Smokers are constantly taking smoke breaks.

    I'm a smoke and I call BS. At my work place, we get two 15 minute breaks, 10 am and 3 pm. That's everyone, the front office people rotate so someone is always there to answer the phones and help customers. Yes, I go out back and "burn" one, but I don't take "smoke breaks".

    I personally don't agree with this practice, not because I smoke, but the idea of a company telling me what I can and can't do in my personal life. I'm not your damn slave, when I'm off the clock and off company property, I will do what I damn well please. What's next, fat people, non-christains, companies not hiring because of political views, having a kid out of wedlock, where does it end?

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    captain brandon

  • I wouldn't mind just getting rid of smoke breaks period, they don't have to quit smoking.

    At my job, smokers are constantly taking smoke break after smoke break, and it leaves the non-smokers to pick up the slack.

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    Go Blue and Go Titans!

    CorchBlue

  • captain brandon said...

    I'm a smoke and I call BS. At my work place, we get two 15 minute breaks, 10 am and 3 pm. That's everyone, the front office people rotate so someone is always there to answer the phones and help customers. Yes, I go out back and "burn" one, but I don't take "smoke breaks".

    I personally don't agree with this practice, not because I smoke, but the idea of a company telling me what I can and can't do in my personal life. I'm not your damn slave, when I'm off the clock and off company property, I will do what I damn well please. What's next, fat people, non-christains, companies not hiring because of political views, having a kid out of wedlock, where does it end?

    None of those groups aside from fat people you listed at the end pertain to this discussion. This who conversation is 99% about health care costs, not personal preference.

    fsufsu ●

  • People still smoke???

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    "Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil

    usctrojan1

  • captain brandon said...

    I'm a smoke and I call BS. At my work place, we get two 15 minute breaks, 10 am and 3 pm. That's everyone, the front office people rotate so someone is always there to answer the phones and help customers. Yes, I go out back and "burn" one, but I don't take "smoke breaks".

    I personally don't agree with this practice, not because I smoke, but the idea of a company telling me what I can and can't do in my personal life. I'm not your damn slave, when I'm off the clock and off company property, I will do what I damn well please. What's next, fat people, non-christains, companies not hiring because of political views, having a kid out of wedlock, where does it end?

    Exactly. This is a very slippery slope. What's next testing for liver enzymes to see if you drink. Funny thing is Dr. & nurses rank among the top of all professions for alcoholism.

    lestat

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