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OT: Political Help Please

  • CMXI said...

    Out of curiosity, would it be fairer to call you a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage conservative?

    One of the pillars of the Republican party platform is maintaining marriage as strictly between one man and one woman.

    Even under Reagan's definition(obviously the untold truth hand delivered by God) of conservatism you have the 3 pillars, one being religious conservatism. Since the republicans embraced those as undeniable truth it would be hard to classify any pro-choice/pro-gay marriage person as either conservative or republican.

    SCirish843

  • SCirish843 said...

    Even under Reagan's definition(obviously the untold truth hand delivered by God) of conservatism you have the 3 pillars, one being religious conservatism. Since the republicans embraced those as undeniable truth it would be hard to classify any pro-choice/pro-gay marriage person as either conservative or republican.

    I'd argue it depends on how you choose to classify. Some say they're one or another merely because they stand with the left on more issues than the right, or vice versa. On the other hand, some think defining matters -- like what you identified -- make it a black and white matter.

    From my spot as a 21 year old, I think you'll see a lot more "independents" come of my generation than anything else. A person who values social issues, and are more open to ideas, but also concerns themselves with other ideals that may not always align with social matters.

    I say the following as a conservative guy brought up in Catholic schooling: The GOP better adjust, because the good'ol boys are getting harder and harder to rely on. Especially those of my age who were supposed to be such, but may be more moderate than anticipated.

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    BornToBeRed

  • USMCAG said...

    I agree with you. I wish we could do away with the whole republican and democrat crap. Do you think that the strong emergence of a third party would bring some much needed balance to our system?

    Frankly, I think it depends on what third party emerges. Either way, a 3rd-party is going to siphon off a significant number of voters from one of the two main parties now, and I don't think there's a single party that could create a relatively even split between the three parties. I see the Libertarian party emerging over the next 16-20 years and effectively splitting the Republican vote into the evangelical Tea Party wing and the more rational conservative wing. However, since there's no equivalent division among the Democratic party, I can't see the emergence of the Libertarian party doing anything to bring balance.

    Of course, I also think there are massive overhauls that need to be made to a) our voting system, b) the redistricting/gerrymandering process, c) Congressional procedure, and a million other things. Until such overhauls are made, no third party will ever make a reasonable difference.

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    CMXI

  • CMXI said...

    Frankly, I think it depends on what third party emerges. Either way, a 3rd-party is going to siphon off a significant number of voters from one of the two main parties now, and I don't think there's a single party that could create a relatively even split between the three parties. I see the Libertarian party emerging over the next 16-20 years and effectively splitting the Republican vote into the evangelical Tea Party wing and the more rational conservative wing. However, since there's no equivalent division among the Democratic party, I can't see the emergence of the Libertarian party doing anything to bring balance.

    Of course, I also think there are massive overhauls that need to be made to a) our voting system, b) the redistricting/gerrymandering process, c) Congressional procedure, and a million other things. Until such overhauls are made, no third party will ever make a reasonable difference.

    I agree with that assessment. What about term limits? Also, since this election is over, do you see a problem with voters having to show proof of identity in elections?

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    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    I agree with that assessment. What about term limits? Also, since this election is over, do you see a problem with voters having to show proof of identity in elections?

    Has there ever been any actual proof of significant voter fraud which could be combatted by making people show IDs?

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    Has there ever been any actual proof of significant voter fraud which could be combatted by making people show IDs?

    Wouldn't even just one make it worth it? What about the NAACP lady submitting absentee ballots of dead people? If it's not needed then fine, but I don't want illegals voting. I guess the counter could be that it isn't hard to make fake ID's.

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    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    I agree with that assessment. What about term limits? Also, since this election is over, do you see a problem with voters having to show proof of identity in elections?

    Yes, term limits are a concern. I don't have a proposed solution off the top of my head though.

    As for proof of identity: unless each state government provides free and easily available identification to each citizen, and takes it upon the government to ensure that each citizen has this identification, I don't think voters should have to show proof of identity beyond their signature. There have been practically no documented instances of voter fraud to justify the massive paranoia surrounding the 2012 election.

    In fact, I'd be much more concerned with election fraud. I think the federal government needs to establish a department specifically charged with developing fully transparent voting methods that don't involve separate voting machine companies, each with their own political interests. Election fraud needs to be ruthlessly prosecuted.

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    CMXI

  • CMXI said...

    Yes, term limits are a concern. I don't have a proposed solution off the top of my head though.

    As for proof of identity: unless each state government provides free and easily available identification to each citizen, and takes it upon the government to ensure that each citizen has this identification, I don't think voters should have to show proof of identity beyond their signature. There have been practically no documented instances of voter fraud to justify the massive paranoia surrounding the 2012 election.

    In fact, I'd be much more concerned with election fraud. I think the federal government needs to establish a department specifically charged with developing fully transparent voting methods that don't involve separate voting machine companies, each with their own political interests. Election fraud needs to be ruthlessly prosecuted.

    These are some great points and ideas. It makes no sense that standardized equipment isn't required. The same machine should be required at every voting location throughout the country.

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    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    These are some great points and ideas. It makes no sense that standardized equipment isn't required. The same machine should be required at every voting location throughout the country.

    I have a litany of complaints about the current election process, and standardized equipment is just one of them.

    - Standardized equipment with transparent software is a necessity. Multiple redundant counters for every state must be instituted.
    - Poll workers must be trained and vetted by a federal organization, not by local party leadership.
    - Any instances of election fraud must be ruthlessly prosecuted and punishable by very harsh sentences.
    - Election day must be a national holiday.
    - Every state should have extensive early voting periods, as well as restrictions for the maximum amount of time a person will have to wait in line.
    - Independent UN elections monitors should be allowed to observe any polling station in the United States.
    - Same-day registration must be allowed.

    That's all I can articulate off the top of my head at 4AM, but I guarantee I'll think up more by the morning.

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    CMXI

  • CMXI said...

    I have a litany of complaints about the current election process, and standardized equipment is just one of them.

    - Standardized equipment with transparent software is a necessity. Multiple redundant counters for every state must be instituted. - Poll workers must be trained and vetted by a federal organization, not by local party leadership. - Any instances of election fraud must be ruthlessly prosecuted and punishable by very harsh sentences. - Election day must be a national holiday. - Every state should have extensive early voting periods, as well as restrictions for the maximum amount of time a person will have to wait in line. - Independent UN elections monitors should be allowed to observe any polling station in the United States. - Same-day registration must be allowed.

    That's all I can articulate off the top of my head at 4AM, but I guarantee I'll think up more by the morning.

    I thoroughly agree with all of these except for the UN. I don't understand the rationale behind all the access? Is this so that they can take our same process to other countries and create successful elections? If that's the case then I am fine with that, but if it is for checks and balances, I'm not okay with that.

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    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    I thoroughly agree with all of these except for the UN. I don't understand the rationale behind all the access? Is this so that they can take our same process to other countries and create successful elections? If that's the case then I am fine with that, but if it is for checks and balances, I'm not okay with that.

    Why are you not okay with it for checks and balances? The UN is largely a powerless organization - it has only as much power as its members elect to grant it. I think it's important to have someone watching the watchmen so that the existing government doesn't decide to rig elections in favor of the incumbents. Just as external election fraud is a major concern, so should be internal.

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    CMXI

  • CMXI said...

    Why are you not okay with it for checks and balances? The UN is largely a powerless organization - it has only as much power as its members elect to grant it. I think it's important to have someone watching the watchmen so that the existing government doesn't decide to rig elections in favor of the incumbents. Just as external election fraud is a major concern, so should be internal.

    Because I feel as though we are the UN. Who else legitimately contributes to the UN?I don't agree with a world government of sorts, so I have a hard time with the UN policing our elections.

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    USMCAG

  • CMXI said...

    Frankly, I think it depends on what third party emerges. Either way, a 3rd-party is going to siphon off a significant number of voters from one of the two main parties now, and I don't think there's a single party that could create a relatively even split between the three parties. I see the Libertarian party emerging over the next 16-20 years and effectively splitting the Republican vote into the evangelical Tea Party wing and the more rational conservative wing. However, since there's no equivalent division among the Democratic party, I can't see the emergence of the Libertarian party doing anything to bring balance.

    Of course, I also think there are massive overhauls that need to be made to a) our voting system, b) the redistricting/gerrymandering process, c) Congressional procedure, and a million other things. Until such overhauls are made, no third party will ever make a reasonable difference.

    Might want to educate yourself on who is what. Tea party was not founded on religion like you say. It was founded on out of control gov. Spending. TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already. Understand. Tea party even has democrats attend there rallys. Yes some religious people belong, but where ever you get your news from is wrong & you should probably change the channel.

    lestat

  • wps88 said...

    Is it possible to be a conservative AND want separation of church and state?

    I'm not fond of hippie liberals or extremely religious people (Huckabee).

    Thanks.

    P.S. I like most of what Ron Paul stood for.

    You sound like a fiscal conservative with a sensible viewpoint on social issues. This is reasonable. There are many people like you, many of them young voters. Unfortunately the Republican party chooses not to pay attention to people like you right now. But yea, you can still be a conservative.

    If the parties could just agree on social issues (and eventually on 3D printing in the next half-century), we'll be golden.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Cuba Gooding Jr on 12/18/2012 at 4:45 AM

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    Next question.

    Cuba Gooding Jr

  • lestat said...

    Might want to educate yourself on who is what. Tea party was not founded on religion like you say. It was founded on out of control gov. Spending. TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already. Understand. Tea party even has democrats attend there rallys. Yes some religious people belong, but where ever you get your news from is wrong & you should probably change the channel.

    I said nothing about where the tea party came from or where it was founded. I'm saying that I see the overall Republican demographic splitting into two distinct factions - the Tea Party/Evangelical faction, and the Libertarian faction.

    Just look at what Michelle Bachmann has said regarding the merger of Tea Party/Evangelical politics: "Well, I absolutely am a Teavangelical because I believe that we are taxed enough already. Government shouldn't spend more money than what it takes in. We should follow the Constitution. And I'm a believer in Jesus Christ, so I think that makes me a Teavangelical."

    Jim DeMint has also chipped in: "I really think a lot of the motivation behind these Tea Party crowds is a spiritual component. I think it's very akin to the Great Awakening before the American Revolution."

    Regardless of where the Tea Party started, the Tea Party and right wing Evangelicals have started to and continue to merge in numerous ways. I was simply saying that I foresee that merger to continue until the strict no-tax Republicans are pushed into the Libertarian faction, not that the Tea Party was founded on religion.

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    CMXI